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Vladimir Putin slams Turkey for shooting down Russian warplane near Syrian border

Russia pilot was carrying out normal operation which post no threat to Turkey. At best, Turkey can claim Russia marginally cross over their territory (about 4km, 4 miles). In those short distance, that take about 17 seconds to crossover by a Su-24. Look at the MAP! Turkey then shot from behind a Su-24 which already out of Turkey and on its way to carry it mission in Syria.
You do not know what you are talking about.

The Geneva Conventions are clear: That you cannot use someone else's territory in your war.

That 'territory' includes airspace. If Russia intends to wage a war against IS, Russia cannot use Turkey's airspace, even in transit, to attack IS positions.

Here is an excellent example...

1986 United States bombing of Libya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For the Libyan raid, the United States was denied overflight rights by France, Spain, and Italy as well as the use of European continental bases, forcing the Air Force portion of the operation to be flown around France and Spain, over Portugal and through the Straits of Gibraltar, adding 1,300 miles (2,100 km) each way and requiring multiple aerial refuelings.
Even if Turkey was involved in a fight against IS, Russia would still have to seek permission from Turkey to use Turkish airspace no matter how short the duration.

Imagine yourself as that Russian pilot who don't speak a shit of Turk language and you are call to carry out a bomb mission and your plane flying in the air at fast speed and you heard someone say on radar that you don't understand, especially your POV is that you carry out flying in Syria airspace at the time, why should you head back?
English is the WORKING language of international aviation.

If this is how rule of sky works from now, then you better hope your Vietnamese aircraft never cross over to our sky, NOT even one inches over whether intentionally or by innocent passage, we will chase to make a kill. LOL
Please...Your Chinese leadership is much smarter and wiser than you lot on this forum.
 
You do not know what you are talking about.

The Geneva Conventions are clear: That you cannot use someone else's territory in your war.

That 'territory' includes airspace. If Russia intends to wage a war against IS, Russia cannot use Turkey's airspace, even in transit, to attack IS positions.

Here is an excellent example...

1986 United States bombing of Libya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even if Turkey was involved in a fight against IS, Russia would still have to seek permission from Turkey to use Turkish airspace no matter how short the duration.


English is the WORKING language of international aviation.


Please...Your Chinese leadership is much smarter and wiser than you lot on this forum.

Put him in the FBI most wanted list. Pretty sure it wont be long when the FBI come to his home knocking his doors. This guy really lack a lot. I almost think he's anti-American.
 
You do not know what you are talking about.

The Geneva Conventions are clear: That you cannot use someone else's territory in your war.

That 'territory' includes airspace. If Russia intends to wage a war against IS, Russia cannot use Turkey's airspace, even in transit, to attack IS positions.

Here is an excellent example...

1986 United States bombing of Libya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even if Turkey was involved in a fight against IS, Russia would still have to seek permission from Turkey to use Turkish airspace no matter how short the duration.


English is the WORKING language of international aviation.


Please...Your Chinese leadership is much smarter and wiser than you lot on this forum.
LOL

Aircraft flying near border will occasionally fly across by accident if radar is giving the pilot different coordination. It happens many time. If everyone acts like Turkey, we will have 100 jet chase shot down a year. LOL. In standard rule of engagement in situation like this is to escort the jet out, especially that jet only across for 17 seconds. Now cite me, which intentional law give Turkey the right to shoot down another aircraft in foreign airspace? LOL
 
I have to use an analogy to explain to you Vietnamese because you lack knowledge of engagement in international dispute. LOL

Anyone with half a brain can look at the map and tell easily that Russian pilot flew majority of his time in Syria and just so happen to fly across Turkish airspace which is about 4km across (took 17 second to cross for a fast jet) and Turkey chased down and killws the aircraft in Syria airspace as if Turkey owned Syria airspace or something. LOL

Gambit is right. You have no clue what you're talking about. Like I said before, you're too insecure about yourself to hold yourself up to an argument without resorting to calling people names and insult. The situation is simple, yet you want to complicate things because you know you already lost the argument.
 
Refer to The Burmese Mig-29 multiple accessed to China airspace and bombing not only one time to your civilians in Yunnan.
Do you wish your AF could intercept that Mig-29, send warnings and able to shoot them down to avoid the bombs to your civilians ? Yes, of course.

4km ? 17 sec ? of violation is still violation. And this is not the first time Russian bombers did that.
Bombers are much dangerous than the Korean Airline Boeing 747 that Russian shot down in 1983 when the passenger airliner went wrong route to Russian island.

LOL.

Russia pilot was carrying out normal operation which post no threat to Turkey. At best, Turkey can claim Russia marginally cross over their territory (about 4km, 4 miles). In those short distance, that take about 17 seconds to crossover by a Su-24. Look at the MAP! Turkey then shot from behind a Su-24 which already out of Turkey and on its way to carry it mission in Syria.

Imagine yourself as that Russian pilot who don't speak a shit of Turk language and you are call to carry out a bomb mission and your plane flying in the air at fast speed and you heard someone say on radar that you don't understand, especially your POV is that you carry out flying in Syria airspace at the time, why should you head back?

If this is how rule of sky works from now, then you better hope your Vietnamese aircraft never cross over to our sky, NOT even one inches over whether intentionally or by innocent passage, we will chase to make a kill. LOL
 
Gambit is right. You have no clue what you're talking about. Like I said before, you're too insecure about yourself to hold yourself up to an argument without resorting to calling people names and insult. The situation is simple, yet you want to complicate things because you know you already lost the argument.
What name calling did I call you? Please cite me some. LOL

Show me how I lost the argument? Show me which law allow a country to shoot down another aircraft in foreign airspace?
 
Here is what the GC says:

The Avalon Project - Laws of War : Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and Persons in Case of War on Land (Hague V); October 18, 1907
CHAPTER I The Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers

Article 1.

The territory of neutral Powers is inviolable.

Art. 2.
Belligerents are forbidden to move troops or convoys of either munitions of war or supplies across the territory of a neutral Power.

Art. 3.
Belligerents are likewise forbidden to:

(a) Erect on the territory of a neutral Power a wireless telegraphy station or other apparatus for the purpose of communicating with belligerent forces on land or sea;

(b) Use any installation of this kind established by them before the war on the territory of a neutral Power for purely military purposes, and which has not been opened for the service of public messages.

Art. 4.
Corps of combatants cannot be formed nor recruiting agencies opened on the territory of a neutral Power to assist the belligerents.

Art. 5.
A neutral Power must not allow any of the acts referred to in Articles 2 to 4 to occur on its territory.

It is not called upon to punish acts in violation of its neutrality unless the said acts have been committed on its own territory.
If Russia was using Turkish airspace as a transit route, even in microseconds, Russia is guilty of Article 2.

If Turkey gave chase, shot a missile, and the Russian aircraft crashed, even if the Russian aircraft crashed outside Turkish soil, Turkey would be obedient to Article 5a and therefore in the right.

But let us say that Russia and Turkey are allies against IS. That does not mean either country is given the license to use the other's airspace in operations. This alliance would most likely be short term, and as such, limits must be transparent for all parties to see and respect. If Turkey did not give Ally Russia to use Turkish airspace, alliance negotiations must be available for all to see as to why or why not Turkey refused Russian pleas. In the meantime, Russia cannot use Turkish airspace.
 
Refer to The Burmese Mig-29 multiple accessed to China airspace and bombing not only one time to your civilians in Yunnan.
Do you wish your AF could intercept that Mig-29, send warnings and able to shoot them down to avoid the bombs to your civilians ? Yes, of course.

4km ? 17 sec ? of violation is still violation. And this is not the first time Russian bombers did that.
Bombers are much dangerous than the Korean Airline Boeing 747 that Russian shot down in 1983 when the passenger airliner went wrong route to Russian island.
LOL Different scenario, different condition, different operation. Russia was carrying out operation targeting at terrorist, NOT Turkey. This is a fact that even Turkey admitted that that Russia jet posed no threat to Turkey.

Now had Turkey shot down the jet in Turkish territory, then it wouldn't be a big deal but they shot down Russian jet in Syria airspace. This means they chased, violated Syria territory to go after Russian jet in a cheapshot operation. In fact, there were rumors that Turkey know Russia flight path and was waiting for the Russian jet to across over so they used that opportunity to shoot down. Evidence in that Turkish media immediately was around the area to record the event and that US shared flight data with Turkey since US-Russia agreed to coordinate flight path in military operation.
 
LOL

Aircraft flying near border will occasionally fly across by accident if radar is giving the pilot different coordination. It happens many time. If everyone acts like Turkey, we will have 100 jet chase shot down a year. LOL. In standard rule of engagement in situation like this is to escort the jet out, especially that jet only across for 17 seconds. Now cite me, which intentional law give Turkey the right to shoot down another aircraft in foreign airspace? LOL
See post 97 above. I bet I have more cockpit time than you do, son.

In fact, there were rumors that Turkey know Russia flight path and was waiting for the Russian jet to across over so they used that opportunity to shoot down.
Perfectly legal under the Geneva Conventions. Even more justified if Turkey warned Russia in the past of such violations.
 
Here is what the GC says:

The Avalon Project - Laws of War : Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and Persons in Case of War on Land (Hague V); October 18, 1907

If Russia was using Turkish airspace as a transit route, even in microseconds, Russia is guilty of Article 2.

If Turkey gave chase, shot a missile, and the Russian aircraft crashed, even if the Russian aircraft crashed outside Turkish soil, Turkey would be obedient to Article 5a and therefore in the right.

But let us say that Russia and Turkey are allies against IS. That does not mean either country is given the license to use the other's airspace in operations. This alliance would most likely be short term, and as such, limits must be transparent for all parties to see and respect. If Turkey did not give Ally Russia to use Turkish airspace, alliance negotiations must be available for all to see as to why or why not Turkey refused Russian pleas. In the meantime, Russia cannot use Turkish airspace.
If Russia was in the wrong to accidentally across Turkish airspace, then neither should Turkey intentionally across over Syria airspace to make a kill. It is that simple. You don't shoot someone in another country territory. No international law allows a country to violate another airspace to shoot at someone.

See post 97 above. I bet I have more cockpit time than you do, son.


Perfectly legal under the Geneva Conventions. Even more justified if Turkey warned Russia in the past of such violations.
That post and law you cite showed NOTHING that a country can across over another country and shoot down an aircraft that just across over their territory by 17 seconds.
 
If Russia was in the wrong to accidentally across Turkish airspace,...
Even after Turkey 'accidentally' warned Russia multiple times ?

No international law allows a country to violate another airspace to shoot at someone.
How would you like me to prove you wrong -- again ? :lol:
 
Even after Turkey 'accidentally' warned Russia multiple times ?


How would you like me to prove you wrong -- again ? :lol:
I'm talking about in a worse case (presumingly giving Turkish the benefit of doubts that their radar is right and Russia is wrong. Still you don't shoot an aircraft already pass your territory. The rule of engagement is to escort. Now the Turk change this rule of engagement and I fear for the future (especially Vietnam) operating near our boarder because you know what happen when you accidentally across over our boarder, we are going to shoot you down even if you are flying back to Vietnam territory.LOL
 
LOL Different scenario, different condition, different operation. Russia was carrying out operation targeting at terrorist, NOT Turkey. This is a fact that even Turkey admitted that that Russia jet posed no threat to Turkey.

Now had Turkey shot down the jet in Turkish territory, then it wouldn't be a big deal but they shot down Russian jet in Syria airspace. This means they chased, violated Syria territory to go after Russian jet in a cheapshot operation. In fact, there were rumors that Turkey know Russia flight path and was waiting for the Russian jet to across over so they used that opportunity to shoot down. Evidence in that Turkish media immediately was around the area to record the event and that US shared flight data with Turkey since US-Russia agreed to coordinate flight path in military operation.

Chinese would be angry just to watch Vietnam let Russian or US aircrafts to use Vietnam airspace to hunt some terrorists in North of Vietnam. And they would be more angry if those aircrafts violated China airspace by mistake. And they could turn mad if those left some bombs or missiles onto China land by mistake.

Whether Turkish F-16 chased, violated Syria or not, we can't make up the case, it need evidence to blame that.

Turkey downs Syrian jet near border 'for airspace violation'
Published time: 23 Mar, 2014 12:42

----------------------------------------------
A Syrian military jet has been intercepted near the Syrian-Turkish border after it violated the Turkish airspace, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said. Conflicting reports said the jet was shot down from the ground and crashed on the Syrian side.

The Syrian Air Force jet was shot down near the Kasab crossing in Latakia province, where fierce fighting between Syrian forces and armed insurgents has been going on for three days, Reuters reported.

Addressing supporters at a Sunday rally, Erdogan confirmed that Turkish armed forces had downed the jet.

“A Syrian plane violated our airspace. Our F-16s took off and hit this plane. Why? Because if you violate my airspace, our slap after this will be hard,” Erdogan said, congratulating the Turkish Air Force on its actions.

The General Staff of the Turkish Armed Forces issued a statement saying the downed jet flew 1.5 kilometers (0.9 miles) into Turkish airspace despite warnings. According to the statement, two Syrian MiG-23 fighter jets approached the Turkish border. When the jets came within 10 nautical miles of the border, Turkish forces sent out “four warning signals.” One of the MiGs left, while the other was intercepted by two Turkish F-16s after breaching the airspace, the General Staff claimed.

The statement noted that the jet went down “1,200 meters to the south of the border on the Syrian territory in Kasab region,” adding that Turkish border guards “observed its fall.”

Earlier reports suggested the jet came down in Syrian territory while bombing targets in Latakia.

Turkish air defenses targeted a Syrian fighter bomber as it struck areas of the northern province of Latakia. The plane caught fire and crashed in Syrian territory,” the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights was quoted as saying by AFP.

Turkey’s Doğan News Agency claimed that the jet crashed in the buffer zone between the Syrian region and Turkey’s Hatay Province. Hatay, formerly Sanjak of Alexandretta, was annexed by Turkey in 1939. Damascus has not officially relinquished its rights of sovereignty over the territory, although during Syrian-Turkish discussions in 2005, Syrian President Bashar Assad’s government said it did not have such claims.

=====================================
Syria 'shoots down Turkish fighter jet'
Syrian air defences “shot down” the Turkish jet fighter that went missing while on patrol near the border between the two countries on Friday, according to local television reports.

Turkey is a member of Nato, meaning that it could invoke Article V of the North Atlantic Treaty and summon the aid of all 28 countries in the alliance if it comes under attack. Turkey's government is a strident critic of President Bashar al-Assad's regime and tension has risen along the land border between the two neighbours.
Syria-Turkey_2256499b.jpg
 
Chinese would be angry just to watch Vietnam let Russian or US aircrafts to use Vietnam airspace to hunt some terrorists in North of Vietnam. And they would be more angry if those aircrafts violated China airspace by mistake. And they could turn mad if those left some bombs or missiles onto China land by mistake.

Whether Turkish F-16 chased, violated Syria or not, we can't make up the case, it need evidence to blame that.

Turkey downs Syrian jet near border 'for airspace violation'
Published time: 23 Mar, 2014 12:42
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Turkey will have to pay for it with interest for sure..Russia will never forget or forgive this humiliation!
 

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