Vietnam Defence Forum

[Nilgiri]

She is hindi soap star. Not Bollywood.

Cmon the good folk here dont know the difference India TV/movies = bollywood

 

[Viet]

Kalibr cruise missiles

December 8, 2015, for the first time ever, a Russian submarine fired a salvo of Kalibr land attack cruise missiles from the Mediterranean Sea against Daesh targets in Syria. a defence spokesman of Russia said, all the targets in 1,500 km away were hit with high accuracy.

what has to do with Vietnam?

because Vietnam Kilo submarines are armed by the same type of Kalibr missile, which has an effective range of 2,000 km. Kalibr is comparable but more advanced than US made Tomahawk cruise missile, as it has a low radar signature and by means of low-level terrain following, is virtually invisible to enemy air defence. the operational software limits the range of Vietnam Kalibr missiles to 300 km. without this limitation (or we find a way to lift it by developing own software), our missiles can reach all targets in the South China Sea. and beyond.

 

[Carlosa]

The Navy recently held a field acceptance test for a Palma gun/missile simulator. the system is developed by Vietnam´s Naval Institute of Engineering. the test was positive, with the Simulator showing virtual combat situations, very close to reality, firing guns and missiles. the Navy plans to induct the Simulator in trainings in the near future. (Translation by Viet)

 

[Viet]

@Viet

Can you improve the Google translation of this article? This looks very interesting, its from comcom:

Chế tạo thiết bị huấn luyện mô phỏng tổ hợp Palma cho hải quân

Hội đồng khoa học Quân chủng Hải quân vừa tổ chức nghiệm thu cơ sở thiết bị mô phỏng tổ hợp pháo - tên lửa phòng không Palma trang bị trên tàu hộ vệ Gepard 3.9. Thiết bị này do Viện Kỹ thuật hải quân nghiên cứu, thiết kế, chế tạo và là sản phẩm của đề tài khoa học cấp Sở KH-CN TP.HCM “Thiết kế, chế tạo thiết bị mô phỏng tổ hợp tên lửa - pháo phòng không Palma để huấn luyện chiến đấu cho trắc thủ”.

Theo đánh giá của các chuyên gia, thiết bị được chế tạo trên cơ sở ứng dụng công nghệ mới nhất về mô phỏng, có đầy đủ các tính năng, các bài tập và tình huống giúp cho trắc thủ có thể luyện tập một cách trực quan, sinh động, sát với thực tế máy điều khiển hệ thống pháo - tên lửa phòng không Palma trên tàu Gepard 3.9.

Sau khi nghiên cứu hồ sơ, tài liệu có liên quan và kết quả kiểm tra hoạt động của thiết bị trên thực tế, Hội đồng khoa học quân chủng nhất trí nghiệm thu thiết bị mô phỏng huấn luyện hệ thống Palma do Viện Kỹ thuật hải quân chế tạo. Hội đồng kiến nghị quân chủng và các cơ quan chức năng cho phép ứng dụng thiết bị vào công tác huấn luyện tại các nhà trường của Quân chủng Hải quân trong thời gian tới.

------------------------

Manufacturing Equipment Training Simulation Combinations Palma for the navy.

Scientific Council people's Navy has held a test facility equipment simulation combinations battery - rockets not palma equipment aboard the guardians cheetah 3.9. Unit due to technical institute navy research, Designed, built and is the product of the science department n-Sun City.

HCM "Design, manufacturing equipment simulation combinations rockets - battery room palma to train to fight for the program".

After assessment of experts, the unit was made on the basis of application technology new about simulation, full functions, homework and the situation to help program position can practice a way to live Officer, I was born, the real host control system battery - rockets not Palma Aboard Cheetah 3.9.

After research records, documents, and related results. Check the activities of unit, in fact, the scientific council of the people's test device Simulation Training System Palma Hospital Technical course Army team. Council petition army race and the feature that allows the program unit in business training in the field of the mutated navy in time for me.

View attachment 316345

basically it says, the Navy recently holds a field acceptance test for a Palma gun/missile simulator. the system is developed by Vietnam´s Naval Institute of Engineering. the test was positive, with the Simulator showing virtual combat situations, very close to reality, firing guns and missiles. the Navy plans to induct the Simulator in trainings in the near future.

 

[Carlosa]

basically it says, the Navy recently holds a field acceptance test for a Palma gun/missile simulator. the system is developed by Vietnam´s Naval Institute of Engineering. the test was positive, with the Simulator showing virtual combat situations, very close to reality, firing guns and missiles. the Navy plans to induct the Simulator in trainings in the near future.

Thank you, that looks pretty good.

Report: Indian Government speeding the sell of BrahMos for Vietnam

(Vietnam defense) - (Google translate) - According to The Diplomat, the Indian Government is currently urging the BrahMos Aerospace companies to accelerate the sale of supersonic missile BrahMos for Vietnam.

The Indian Government speeding the sale

According to this source, in addition to speed supersonic BrahMos missile sale to Vietnam, the Indian Government also are boosting manufacturers increase the tempo of this weapons sale for 4 other potential customers as Indonesia, South Africa, Chile and Brazil.

In late June, 2016, Janes Defence Weekly magazine leads the Indian military sources said that Vietnam would be the first nation to get BrahMos missiles, possibly before the end of 2016.

According to this source, 22/6, the talks with Vietnam about the Brahmos missile supply in good progress, the Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar discussed weapons procurement contract with Vietnam's Defense Minister, General of Wu Chun.

The negotiations took place in Hanoi, including the option of a permanent team of Indian engineers to help Vietnam naval weapons system. The transfer of BrahMos could take place in a short time.

The BrahMos missile-M version.

Before Janes, TASS News Agency has also said that Vietnam will receive the fastest cruise missile in the world right in the year 2016. Mr. Manohar Parrikar of this Declaration launched today 17/6 survey occasion loaded type testing sessions trainer HTT-40 by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL).

In this event, said Parrikar said the Indian Government has decided to export missiles to India's friends, including the supersonic fleet destroyer missile BrahMos Indian-Russian cooperation and built.

About the export of missiles to Vietnam, Minister Parrikar answered the press that India will sell for Vietnam supersonic fleet destroyer missile has a range of 290 km far, and Vietnam will be the first country to receive advanced weapons by Russia and India cooperate in this production.

"We had negotiations with Vietnam, and with high capability for weapons supply contract will be reached before the end of the year," the Minister said Parrikar said, adding that at the same time.

"After my visit to Vietnam, we have decided to establish a working group to consider the aspect of the export of weapons," said Parrikar said.

 

[3Kingdoms]

Good! Hope Vietnam develop strong sea denial to sea control power.


954 air force-naval brigade can perform the following tasks: military transport, reconnaissance, aerial, water-surface and on-the-ground observation, search and rescue at sea, on land and rescue and flood prevention

954 Brigade of training at sea

 

[3Kingdoms]

Don't think details of this rocket has been posted?

Rocket Systems for Coastal Defense

Designated Coastal & Island Defense System (CIDS), the new system provides authorities with the tools to enforce national sovereignty over coastal areas, islands and archipelagos,
protecting interests throughout a national Economic Exclusion Zone that can extend up to 200 miles from the seashore. A version of the system has already been activated in Vietnam, where it is deployed as part of the country’s ‘Killer’ anti-landing system. The Vietnamese application integrated by IMI uses coastal defense systems provided by IAI’s Elta Systems, Orbiter 2 mini-UAVs supplied by Aeronautics, and extra rockets provided by IMI.



While cruise missiles and artillery have been used for coastal defense for many years, until now, ballistic missiles and rockets have lacked the range and precision necessary to deter naval vessels. With its high precision, CIDS can hit targets at sea at long range, while they are still hours of sailing distance from shore. The system’s radars and optional UAVs provide the early warning, location, speed and heading data necessary to identify and lock onto targets in order to exploit its extended range and precision. The introduction of GPS guidance transforms the system’s rockets into precision, guided weapons, with accuracy of better than 10 meters. Moreover, with their ballistic attack trajectory, these weapons are difficult to defeat by conventional naval defenses.

Two weapons of this class include the Chinese DF-21D and the Iranian Khalij Fars, derived from the Fateh 110 short-range ballistic missile. Both use vehicular-launched ballistic missiles. The system introduced by IMI Systems offers a similar application in an operationally flexible, distributed and affordable configuration.

A rocket-based island defense system such as the Vietnamese ‘Killer’ system is particularly suited to protect the country’s territorial claims in the disputed Spratly Islands of the South China Sea. Its coverage, which extends over 80 nautical miles, is sufficient to enable a small garrison to protect approaches to key islands and many of the atolls and small islands in the area.

IMI Systems offers the CIDS as an integrated coastal defense solution, integrating sensors and command, control and communications elements to create, update and process a situational picture over a wide area in real time. Configured for mobile, stationary or hybrid formations, CIDS supports flexible deployment in remote theaters. The system employs precision, guided ballistic rockets such as those of the ACCULAR family, that can hit pinpointed targets at sea and on land, at distances of up to 80 nautical miles.

IMI Systems offers the CIDS as an integrated coastal defense solution, combining sensors on land and on manned and unmanned platforms, command, control and communications elements to create, update and process a situational-picture over a wide-area in real time.
Image: IMI Systems

The rockets used by the system enable coastal defenders to respond rapidly and decisively, engaging multiple moving targets simultaneously. CIDS offers a cost-effective alternative to coastal artillery and missile systems, offering superior performance in range and precision over coastal artillery. It also provides a higher degree of operational flexibility, through remote control and the ability to engage targets both at sea and on land.

CIDS elements can be distributed in multiple locations for optimal coverage and response. These elements can be controlled remotely from the system’s central command post. Redundant communications links ensure secure control over all distributed assets.

Fired from a range of 150 km, IMI Systems’ 306mm Extra rocket can hit within less than 10 meters of a target.
Photo: IMI Systems.

 

[Carlosa]

Don't think details of this rocket has been posted?

Rocket Systems for Coastal Defense

Designated Coastal & Island Defense System (CIDS), the new system provides authorities with the tools to enforce national sovereignty over coastal areas, islands and archipelagos,
protecting interests throughout a national Economic Exclusion Zone that can extend up to 200 miles from the seashore. A version of the system has already been activated in Vietnam, where it is deployed as part of the country’s ‘Killer’ anti-landing system. The Vietnamese application integrated by IMI uses coastal defense systems provided by IAI’s Elta Systems, Orbiter 2 mini-UAVs supplied by Aeronautics, and extra rockets provided by IMI.



While cruise missiles and artillery have been used for coastal defense for many years, until now, ballistic missiles and rockets have lacked the range and precision necessary to deter naval vessels. With its high precision, CIDS can hit targets at sea at long range, while they are still hours of sailing distance from shore. The system’s radars and optional UAVs provide the early warning, location, speed and heading data necessary to identify and lock onto targets in order to exploit its extended range and precision. The introduction of GPS guidance transforms the system’s rockets into precision, guided weapons, with accuracy of better than 10 meters. Moreover, with their ballistic attack trajectory, these weapons are difficult to defeat by conventional naval defenses.

Two weapons of this class include the Chinese DF-21D and the Iranian Khalij Fars, derived from the Fateh 110 short-range ballistic missile. Both use vehicular-launched ballistic missiles. The system introduced by IMI Systems offers a similar application in an operationally flexible, distributed and affordable configuration.

A rocket-based island defense system such as the Vietnamese ‘Killer’ system is particularly suited to protect the country’s territorial claims in the disputed Spratly Islands of the South China Sea. Its coverage, which extends over 80 nautical miles, is sufficient to enable a small garrison to protect approaches to key islands and many of the atolls and small islands in the area.

IMI Systems offers the CIDS as an integrated coastal defense solution, integrating sensors and command, control and communications elements to create, update and process a situational picture over a wide area in real time. Configured for mobile, stationary or hybrid formations, CIDS supports flexible deployment in remote theaters. The system employs precision, guided ballistic rockets such as those of the ACCULAR family, that can hit pinpointed targets at sea and on land, at distances of up to 80 nautical miles.

IMI Systems offers the CIDS as an integrated coastal defense solution, combining sensors on land and on manned and unmanned platforms, command, control and communications elements to create, update and process a situational-picture over a wide-area in real time.
Image: IMI Systems

The rockets used by the system enable coastal defenders to respond rapidly and decisively, engaging multiple moving targets simultaneously. CIDS offers a cost-effective alternative to coastal artillery and missile systems, offering superior performance in range and precision over coastal artillery. It also provides a higher degree of operational flexibility, through remote control and the ability to engage targets both at sea and on land.

CIDS elements can be distributed in multiple locations for optimal coverage and response. These elements can be controlled remotely from the system’s central command post. Redundant communications links ensure secure control over all distributed assets.

Fired from a range of 150 km, IMI Systems’ 306mm Extra rocket can hit within less than 10 meters of a target.
Photo: IMI Systems.

It has been posted in the past, at the time of the news of Vietnam buying these systems, but its good to see the info again, thank you. Its a good system, it has a small footprint that make it very suitable for the small islands. It has a very good range and complements the artillery pieces in the islands.

Vietnam uses the smaller 2 tube rocket launcher for EXTRA, the small footprint again, very important in such small islands. I suspect that Vietnam has a small mobile launcher that does not need to use the truck. That would make it much easier to hide.

 

[3Kingdoms]

Carlosa I don't know what I can really give to this thread, you have great post buddy! Do you have military experience? Do you know much about a amphibious assault? Personally I don't.

 

[Carlosa]

Carlosa I don't know what I can really give to this thread, you have great post buddy! Do you have military experience? Do you know much about a amphibious assault? Personally I don't.

Everybody has something to give to the thread, nobody is capable of having all the information. No worries man. Just post whenever you find something interesting. Actually, the big Daddy of the thread is @Viet, he is the one that started the thread and he is the one that does the most posts by far and when the thread is slow, he keeps it alive.

Somebody else asked me the same a few days ago. I have ZERO military experience; military things is a hobby of mine for many years, I read a lot about it, I try to understand it in depth as much as I can, that's all.

If you are thinking about amphibious assault in terms of how the Vietnamese islands can defend from a chinese amphibious assault, yes, I did put together a whole piece in the past about how the defense of the islands can work. I'll look at my files and I'll post it later, but let me tell you in advance that given the military balance in the area and the big difference of assets and capabilities, if China wants to take the islands, they will. There is no 2 ways about that and I've been told that by a naval officer in very blunt terms. Just think about the Japanese held islands in ww2. No matter how many troops and assets you put there, if the enemy controls the overall area and has control of the air and sea and massive naval and amphibious assault forces, they will take the islands just how the Americans did. Vietnam can make them pay a price, but that's all that can realistically be done at the moment.

 

[3Kingdoms]

You sound like you have military knowledge, compliment for you!
About amphibious assault - I thought as much, but I agree its to deter and make the price for attack as expensive in terms of loss as possible. But its the lives that Vietnam may have to sacrifice, for this to happen that's another factor.
Would like to read your piece on island defense, do post it when you feel like it. Oh and kudos to Viet also great thread!

 

[Carlosa]

You sound like you have military knowledge, compliment for you!
About amphibious assault - I thought as much, but I agree its to deter and make the price for attack as expensive in terms of loss as possible. But its the lives that Vietnam may have to sacrifice, for this to happen that's another factor.
Would like to read your piece on island defense, do post it when you feel like it. Oh and kudos to Viet also great thread!

Well, the thing is, you need to deploy enough military assets to make it clear that taking over those islands is not going to be a walk in the park (like it would be in the case of the Filipino islands), it has to be clear that attacking the islands means war and there is a price to pay and there can be retaliation. By the way, Vietnam can destroy the chinese held islands with the upgraded Scud missiles (CEP of 30 to 50 meters and range up to 700 km).

Here is my piece:

Vietnamese Spratly Islands multi layer defensive system (this analysis applies only to the bigger islands):

First line of defense (up to 150 km range): EXTRA (long range guided rockets).

Second line of defense (up to 40 km range): Accular guided rockets. 130 & 122 mm howitzers.

Third line of defense (up to 10 km range): Kornet anti tank missiles, Light tanks (PT-76) or medium tanks (T-54 / 55). The islands have a sizable forces of enclosed T-34-85 and even M-48 tanks, they're protected by hardened steel cases and concrete bunkers.

Fourth line of defense (up to 3 km range): direct line of sight light artillery (23 / 37 / 85 mm), MATADOR anti tank missiles, other anti tank missiles, RPG type weapons (RPG-7, SPG-9, RPG-29), AGS-17 grenade launcher, 12.7mm heavy machine guns.

Against helicopter assault: Shoulder mounted Igla missiles, 23 / 37 mm anti aircraft guns and even anti tank and RPG weapons.

Air assets: The islands can deploy armed helicopters.

Passive defense: The island have steel-reinforced concrete obstacles around the islands, like the poles in Bach Dang river and/or steel obstacles on Normandy. That would slow the enemies vessels down, also act as artillery marks. The artillery still has some use, but its not really effective against fast moving landing boats.

Conclusions: Everything is small, mobile and easy to hide and protect.

Notes: Large weapon systems (anti ship missiles, air defense systems, etc) are too difficult to hide and too vulnerable against the enemy initial shelling and or missile / roket attacks. Also, deploying sophisticated systems like anti ship missiles, etc, those systems have to be maintained, but can't do that properly in a small island. And lets not forget that the environment in those islands is very nasty to equipment, very nasty marine environment.

If you are going to attack these islands, you are first going to deploy plenty of assets and you are going to cut them off and then apply heavy suppression fire to destroy most of what is there and then you make your move. Its very difficult to defend against that, you can have landings coming from all directions and by air.

Now that the chinese have large bases in their newly expanded islands only makes the situation far worse. The already have 3 large air bases from where they can deploy a significant number of fighter jets as well as AWACS aircrafts. Its just a matter of time until they deploy large air defense systems which will cover the air space of the Vietnamese islands. They can also deploy long range rocket launchers to shell the islands, Vietnam has no defense against that, so there is no point in deploying large, sophisticated systems, they can't survive.

Look at what happened on the Falkland islands and those islands are far bigger, the Argentinians deployed 15,000 men and heavy artillery, but in the end they surrendered because they were cut off and had no chance of getting supplies. Actually, precisely because they deployed too many troops, the supply issue was even bigger. You can only deploy so much in an island that is 60,000 s/m (that's the biggest island, Spratly island, although its getting expanded now).

In my view those islands are not defensible against a big power like China. You can only try to do some damage to the attacking party before you lose the island, but you can't keep them. That would require air and naval assets that Vietnam does not have and also long range missiles.

Still, only so much can be deployed in a very small island and in the end, can't stop a large landing force. Remember all those Japanese islands during WW2, all much bigger and with a lot of Japanese troops, but all were taken. Islands are not defensible against a superior enemy that can cut off the island and keep a blockade.

That's also why all those chinese islands can be easily destroyed / taken by the Americans if they want to.

 

[3Kingdoms]

You've highlight just how vulnerable those small islands are! With China's modern air power those mini UAV's would be targeted first and blind the Extra rockets?

Thanks Carlosa for your knowledge, especially line defence - I'm off to acquire knowledge about these things.

 

[Carlosa]

You've highlight just how vulnerable those small islands are! With China's modern air power those mini UAV's would be targeted first and blind the Extra rockets?

Thanks Carlosa for your knowledge, especially line defence - I'm off to acquire knowledge about these things.

Mines can help, but they will not stop an airborne assault (helicopters).

Yes, those UAVs would be targeted first. There are a variety of ways to get target coordinates for the rocket launchers, but Vietnam is not doing very well in that department at the moment; more assets are needed, but that situation will improve in time. And anyway, The chinese will probably take those EXTRA rockets out before their naval force gets within their range. The defenses in the islands are able to fight a limited attack, but not a full attack.

There are too many ways to hit an island, the island is a sitting duck. Ballistic missiles, cruise missiles launched by ships or aircraft, air attack, artillery and MLRS rockets based on nearby chinese islands, artillery from ships, UAVs, etc.

I'll make it simple. 300 mm MLRS (multiple rocket launchers) based on a nearby chinese island can totally saturate the island and not leave anything standing. The infantry have to stay in underground bunkers in order to survive. Then a simultaneous amphibious and air assault under cover of artillery fire. That's enough, game over.

 

[Viet]

You sound like you have military knowledge, compliment for you!
About amphibious assault - I thought as much, but I agree its to deter and make the price for attack as expensive in terms of loss as possible. But its the lives that Vietnam may have to sacrifice, for this to happen that's another factor.
Would like to read your piece on island defense, do post it when you feel like it. Oh and kudos to Viet also great thread!

Thanks

We must rely on our strengh, which is not military hardware, but our intelligence. Hit the enemy where it least expects.