Vietnam & India to hold fifth strategic defence talks

[Star of David]

Read post 61.

I wrote that post...read it again with a pair of glasses and a dictionary! I never said this is matter of prestige...never..absolutely false! Vietnam is great benefit for us ...and if we fight together it is definitely a win win for both of us against a potential adversary like China. GOT IT? As far as setting up a base? What is the problem? China is going everywhere and setting up facilities? So what is the problem if we set a base there. It allows us to target and gather intelligence from their South China Sea positions quicker and accurately....at the same time it allows us to open a second offensive/defensive position against the Chinese. GOT IT?

 

[Old School]

India will be in future we will see at that time only....world power or second or whatever.....lets wait....unlike the chinese monkeys jumping all over when they are no where as of nw....

What is the objective of using words like above highlighted in red ?

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

What is the objective of using words like above highlighted in red ?

not that serious a word...

 

[deckingraj]

Sir...National Pride is both good and bad...Good if used in positive way and bad if it blinds us....Let me dwell more into your post.....

It's a good pressure tactic to wake up the Dragon. Even if not much effort is put into a naval base or listening post, the mere presence of Indian forces is a good source of pride for our people and for ppl around the world to wake up and take notice.

wake up and take notice of what??? Let's not forget we have about 30% of our population under poverty line....80% of our defence equipments are imported.....Mumbai happened just couple of years ago...and Kargil just a decade ago where world has seen how porous our borders are.....Yes we are improving but there is hell lot of things we still have to do....There is not much for the world to notice here apart from out lucrative markets......First let's achieve the target and all the noticing will happen on its own.....Remember we are yet a third world country.....On top of that our strategic doctorine is about regional influence and IOC being our backyard....If we achieve that we are good.....So sorry to say but whatever you are saying is nothing but exterme nationalism defying logic.....

We need to market ourselves well and that is what is China has been doing and is doing still.

Market yourself by having a naval base in South China???? Sorry sir that don't make sense....If you want to market yourself like China then emulate them in being the power house of manufacturing....Both the countries started at pretty much same economic situation way back in 1950's....In 6 decaded they have surpassed us on almost every field...Be it economics, be it Military, be it influence in the world....

Just to let you know even after being light years ahead then us they still don't have a naval base in IOC...That's why i said have a base similar to what China has in IOC....This itself is a good enough message....Though Chinese excuse/reason for those basis are purely economics....Not sure what kind of trade/shipping routes that we will have to save in South China...Nevertheless a base would be good in the long run...As of now it simply don't make sense....

It allows us to concentrate on technologies that increase our Electronic Surveillance on Hainan (Sub Base).

Practically of no use to us....Even in war we will not be going to South China...That would be suicide...All we need to ensure is PLAN should also feel the same when thinking about IOC....

Vietnam is the only nation that has resisted both the USA, France and China in the past century. There is a lot to learn from these people....there is no doubt about that. At the same time, Vietnam can learn a lot about our tech in certain fields.

Pretty much agree here....However you don't need a naval base to make someone your ally....Remember NAM...Even duting the height of Cold War when our arch rival was cozing up with US and her(US) role in 1971 we did not join WARSAW....

To me the biggest advantage of having Vietnam as an ally is that it creates one long continual land border against China in the eventuality of war.

Dude you are seriously overestimating our capabilities...As of now we don't have a capacity to even have military role in AF leave aside Vietnam....

Their use of caves and tunnels is unparalleled and we must use their expertise in our lands. In a likely scenario whereas China conducts a "blitzkrieg" formation on our armed forces with overwhelming missiles and manpower and don't forgot the element of surprise ('62), the only effective way to counter such an act is guerrilla war with the effective use of tunnel networks.

This is not 1962....Our forces do not need to go for Guerrilla Warfare to counter any agression on our side...We are the world 4 largest Army for god's sake....At one point you overestimated our capabilities...and here you underestimated them.....

Look if you want to Compare us with China then remember it would be suicide of taking offence to them....However if we manage to set the same expectations with China then our job is done...As of now we can only give them a very bloody nose....We need to achieve the suicide phenomenon and the way we are mordinazing we will achieve it soon....

I honestly feel we should have all kids after 12th grade take a little military training like Israel. This has multiple potential benefits from identifying those who have leadership qualities early on, instilling patriotism and nationalism in an impressionable age in the youth, and it gives familiarity with weapons and training. If we open the youth's minds to the possibilities, it is unlimited what we can learn from kids who have been exposed to the WEST FROM AN EARLY AGE. Sometimes a person unfamiliar with military training might be the best person to point areas that can be improved.

Debatable but have no serious issues with it....No doubt Military trainings transforms Boys to Men....

Remember my friends, when there a lot Chinese and Pakistani folks who hate this post, there must be more reasons than meet the eye. Clearly, India and Vietnam joining hands is a considerable counterweight that China definitely doesn't want to happen.

No doubt about it....Who would want a potential adversary to cosy up with countries you had war with??? However ther debate is about having a naval base....If you agree that it do not make sense then i have no disagreement with rest of your post.....

 

[letsbefriends]

I'm mearly posting my response to many Indians claiming of having bases in Vietnam and the Vietnamese guy saying that India is not strong enough to have bases in Vietname.

Your response just show your lack of knowledge in history as you still bring up Mao. Or bring up Taiwan, America or Chinese. many Indians view East Asian geopolitical relationship through Indian lense and this does not make sense.

check out ur post before who brought up taiwan or america etc,n shut up

 

[Dash]

The faithfulguy is actually a confused person.

When you talk something against US he will talk in favor of US, when you talk something negative about China, he will support china..
First know what to do in life....

If India cant protect itself then India wouldnt have been here, live and kicking..
From Obama to Sarkozy, From Putin to Cameron.. everybody is now praising India about its foreign policy, security policy, education policy....


For education See here...

Raise standards to compete with Indian kids: Obama

For Military.. See here.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_obama-dispatches-gates-to-india-to-upgrade-military-ties_1336423
Obama Plans November Trip to ‘Rising Power’ India as Ties Widen - BusinessWeek

And this fellow is saying India cant protect itself, Are you hibernating in North pole or what......

China has no friend in this world and the only ally is Pakistan.

Where as look at Indian friends, and if you want links then i can provide you.
Stop living in isolation, open your mind and savor the Indian dream now on...

If you get nightmares, then call me I will give you morphine...

China has nothing that cant be countered by India. Till date chineese have no technology research and have only copied from other countries. I have heard how dissatisfied Russians are....

Ask Russia for an Aircraft carrier, see if you can get one. the only AC you got from Ukraine for a casino you made it an Aircraft carrier.

First of all try making something of own and then talk.

 

[pmukherjee]

The quality of the army counts as much. India fight Pakistan to a draw2 out of 3 wars. And India is much bigger. That show you that quality count as much. US is the most powerful country in the world not because of its size or population. But because of its wealth and technology.

You really are a highly opinionated if totally clueless civillian aren't you?
The thumb rule in military combat is a 3:1 combat superiority for achieving a decisive victory. there are force multipliers which can offset this ratio somewhat but that is the combat superiority one plans on when planning an attack. In the mountains, this ratio can go upto 9: 1 or even 12:1, which implies that a battalion or at least a battalion less a company would be needed to capture a platoon.

India, has a large Army agreed, but is it three times larger than the Pak Army? Moreover has India ever been able to bring to bear the combat potential of all its available field formations against Pakistan? Didn't we have to leave aside a considerable part of our total capability to cater for misadventures if any by China?

In such a scenario as that painted above, at best, local sectoral superiority in order to gain certain strategic objectives in selected sectors is all that military planners can aim for. Both countries have done that in all the wars.

Get off your coke, ignorance and patriotism induced high and stop talking of 'quality of army'.There is no such thing. We are talking of a modern, well equipped and well trained Army here not a rag tag mob and it is sheer arithmetics which matters most of the time in attrition battles since there is little scope of inflicting SURPRISE ,the biggest force multiplier except in a localised sense.

With regard to your reference to the 'might of the US', the biggest coalition force in modern history had to practically starved Iraq to death through decade long sanctions in order to achieve decisive victory over that country.

Better read up on matters alien to you before legislating like the expert you are not, you can fool most of the clueless jingos on this forum most of the time but then someone who knows what is being talked about and who is not bored to death by the cr@p floating around will give you a shut up call.

Regards.

 

[Kinetic]

I'm mearly posting my response to many Indians claiming of having bases in Vietnam and the Vietnamese guy saying that India is not strong enough to have bases in Vietname.

Your response just show your lack of knowledge in history as you still bring up Mao. Or bring up Taiwan, America or Chinese. many Indians view East Asian geopolitical relationship through Indian lense and this does not make sense.

What makes you think that he is from Vietnam? In which way he looks like a Vietnamese? If someone comes with US/Taiwan flags and shows his exceptional love for China and hatred towards India does that mean that he is from US? NO. If a member with Indian flag shows love towards Pakistan and hatred towards India, is he an Indian? NO.

Some people are really ashamed of their nationality!

 

[Hafizzz]

Defence and strategic cooperations with countries like Vietnam, Mongolia, Singapore, Japan etc are crucial for India. We should work on them.

Ah ha...India's string of Pearls to contain China.

 

[Kinetic]

Ah ha...India's string of Pearls to contain China.

I was talking about better strategic relations not naval bases.

As of now Chinese SoP is just a fascination. No country except Pakistan will allow a Chinese base and there also a question ie US already there in Pakistan. Building ports doesn't mean naval base and the respective govts declared that. So atleast wait until there is some situation regarding this matter!

 

[faithfulguy]

I wrote that post...read it again with a pair of glasses and a dictionary! I never said this is matter of prestige...never..absolutely false! Vietnam is great benefit for us ...and if we fight together it is definitely a win win for both of us against a potential adversary like China. GOT IT? As far as setting up a base? What is the problem? China is going everywhere and setting up facilities? So what is the problem if we set a base there. It allows us to target and gather intelligence from their South China Sea positions quicker and accurately....at the same time it allows us to open a second offensive/defensive position against the Chinese. GOT IT?

The question is how does it benefit Vietnam for India to have a base in Vietnam? that is the question. You talk about fight together but why would Vietnamese want that? The guy AVet explain it all. If Vietnam want someone to counter China, its the US, not India. If any nation look for someone to counter China, they would look to US for that leadership. Only Indian count themself as a leader in the effort to counter China. Everyone else knows that India has no such capability and they need to look to US for this kind of leadership. Would any Indian here care to disagree??

 

[faithfulguy]

check out ur post before who brought up taiwan or america etc,n shut up

I have no idea what you are trying to infer. Are you sure you are involve in the right conversation?

 

[faithfulguy]

The faithfulguy is actually a confused person.

When you talk something against US he will talk in favor of US, when you talk something negative about China, he will support china..
First know what to do in life.....

I'm an American so I naturally support America. Also, I do respect the Chinese economy and their abilities. If there is a country that will have the potential to challenge America, China has the best chance. However, think India still has a long way to go before any one would consider India as a challenge to America.

If India cant protect itself then India wouldnt have been here, live and kicking..
From Obama to Sarkozy, From Putin to Cameron.. everybody is now praising India about its foreign policy, security policy, education policy....


For education See here...

Raise standards to compete with Indian kids: Obama

For Military.. See here.

Obama dispatches Gates to India to upgrade military ties - dnaindia.com
Obama Plans November Trip to ‘Rising Power’ India as Ties Widen - BusinessWeek

And this fellow is saying India cant protect itself, Are you hibernating in North pole or what......

China has no friend in this world and the only ally is Pakistan.

Where as look at Indian friends, and if you want links then i can provide you.
Stop living in isolation, open your mind and savor the Indian dream now on...

If you get nightmares, then call me I will give you morphine...

China has nothing that cant be countered by India. Till date chineese have no technology research and have only copied from other countries. I have heard how dissatisfied Russians are....

Ask Russia for an Aircraft carrier, see if you can get one. the only AC you got from Ukraine for a casino you made it an Aircraft carrier.

First of all try making something of own and then talk.

India is making progress. But in america, our focus challenge from China. As for being a Taiwanese America. I believe that only America can balance out the Chinese political and military capability in the future. India has no such capability.

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

Excellent job! Viet Nam can kick India's arse any day of the week!

 

[faithfulguy]

What makes you think that he is from Vietnam? In which way he looks like a Vietnamese? If someone comes with US/Taiwan flags and shows his exceptional love for China and hatred towards India does that mean that he is from US? NO. If a member with Indian flag shows love towards Pakistan and hatred towards India, is he an Indian? NO.

Some people are really ashamed of their nationality!

You are under the false impression that anyone who does not love India is a Chinese. You are so wrong. Most East Asian do not believe in the capabilities of Indians.. That include Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Phillipinos and Chinese from China, Hong Kong and Taiwan. Not everyone believe that China is a friend, as matter of fact, most people feel threatened by China. However, everyone believe that US is the only one nation can can counter Chinese influence. India do not even come into the picture. As matter of fact, most would agree that India probably would need US protection against China soon.