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Vietnam, India Join to Face China

StormShadow

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Help for Vietnam


As US power declines along with its role as Asia's peacemaker and tensions rise, Vietnam has been looking abroad for potential allies in hedging against Chinese hegemony in the region. India, with its own strategic concerns about Beijing, is emerging as a prospective benefactor and partner.

The urgency of Vietnam's search for new allies came into sharp relief after Chinese naval vessels cut the cables of two Vietnamese oil exploration ships in May and June 2011, well within what Vietnam considers its Exclusive Economic Zone in the South China Sea -- called the East Sea by the Vietnamese. The incident kicked off weeks of demonstrations in Vietnam -- a rarity in a country run by a repressive government that allows few demonstrations of any kind. Eleven anti-China protests were held between June and August.

“It was a big shock that basically mobilized a lot of Vietnamese public opinion against China. It also forced quite a number of Vietnamese political and military leaders to state unequivocally their stance on South China Sea, and how to deal with China on that issue,” says David Koh, an expert on Vietnamese politics and civil society at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies.

“Initially the demonstrations served the government’s purpose because they signaled to China that its assertiveness in the South China Sea was having a counterproductive impact on bilateral relations,” says Carlyle Thayer, a professor of Vietnamese domestic politics at the University of New South Wales.

However, these rare expressions of public sentiment were eventually halted by force. “As the demonstrations wore on they became a potential liability on the Vietnamese government’s diplomatic approaches to China,” Thayer says.

The fact is that Vietnam can't afford to push China too far because of the asymmetry of their relationship. “I have termed this the tyranny of geography,” says Thayer, “Vietnam can't pick its neighbor. At 89 million people or the 12th most populous country in the world, Vietnam is only a middle sized Chinese province. The Vietnamese government is divided between those who understand the need to act with prudence towards China and those who would like to see a more assertive stance. ”

Instead of directly antagonizing the Chinese, Vietnam has chosen to look elsewhere for support. At the East Asia Summit in November 2011, other countries in the region joined together with the United States to demand that maritime disputes be resolved multilaterally, rather than bilaterally as China prefers.

“This form of assertiveness in the South China and East China Sea is not confined to Vietnam. This is part of a broader assertiveness [from China]. This concerns all of China’s neighbors who share land and maritime borders with China. At the East Asia Summit it was made clear to China that they cannot approach this bilaterally, it needs to be multilaterally,” said Gopalapuram Parthasarathy, the former Indian Ambassador to Myanmar.

As an indication of that concern, Vietnam's defense minister. Gen. Phuong Quang Thanh, invited Myanmar's top military official, Gen. Min Aung Hlaing, to make his first trip abroad in November to Vietnam. Min Aung Hlaing did so, conspicuously not choosing China as his predecessors have done. Although there was no detailed announcement of the defense chief's itinerary, military observers say the visit was intended to both cement bilateral cooperation between the two countries as well as signaling an attempt to put some space between Myanmar's previous close relationship to China.

"China realizes that India represents one of a number of countries that are concerned about its assertiveness in the South China Sea. China therefore fears that an anti-China coalition may emerge," Thayer said.

India remains the major new focus of Vietnam's diplomacy. The Vietnamese President, Trung Tan Sang, visited India for the first time in October. “It was a significant visit and I think the timing of the visit was serendipitous. India is one strong anchor to the far west of the Asia continent for Vietnam,” Koh says.

Vietnam has sought cooperation from India in the form of military training, with both countries using Russian equipment extensively. They are also expected to purchase submarines and are hoping to get approval to buy land-based anti-ship cruise missiles from the South Asians.

In exchange, India gets to partake in Vietnam’s oil hunt, and perhaps more significantly their navy gets to use the Vietnamese port of Nha Trang, which could result in a significant Indian naval presence in the South China Sea.

The South China Sea plays an important part in India’s strategic considerations. As former ambassador Parthasarathy points out, 40 percent of Indian trade with the US goes through the South and East China seas, as does trade with Korea and Japan, two of India’s biggest trade partners.

Then there’s the oil. “Everybody gains from oil explorations. China cannot dictate to us where we look for oil,” Parthasarathy says.

The largest democracy in the world has considerable beef with its communist counterpart. There are major territorial disputes over large swathes of the land border shared by the two neighbors. India is nervous too about the pace of Chinese growth, and what it views as Chinese incursions into the Indian Ocean. China has recently built ports in Sri Lanka and Myanmar.

China has also been called the “all-weather friend” of India’s arch-rival Pakistan, who is regarded by Beijing as a way to box in New Delhi’s ambitions in Central Asia.

Analysts warn that China will take kindly to India’s move into its backyard. “Can there be advantages for China if the India navy has the occasional cruise in the South China Sea?” Koh asks.

“The negatives for China are immanent, not imminent. It establishes the precedent of the presence of out-of-area navies in the disputed areas,” says Bharat Karnad, a former member of the National Security Council of India.

But hawks in India like Parthasarathy want to see their country bring China back a peg or two, and increased friendship with Vietnam is one way to achieve this goal.

“We are not claiming the Indian Ocean as Indian territory, like the Chinese are with the South China Sea,” Parthasarathy says. “Our relations [with Vietnam] have been good even before Chinese-Vietnam relations soured. We were one of the guys who said no to the American war, we made our displeasure quite clear.” :tup:

“The Chinese are operating all over our backyard, why should they get bothered about this? If you think we’re running scared of the Chinese I can assure you we’re not,” he concluded. :flame:

Asia Sentinel - Vietnam, India Join to Face China
 
As an indication of that concern, Vietnam's defense minister. Gen. Phuong Quang Thanh, invited Myanmar's top military official, Gen. Min Aung Hlaing, to make his first trip abroad in November to Vietnam. Min Aung Hlaing did so, conspicuously not choosing China as his predecessors have done. Although there was no detailed announcement of the defense chief's itinerary, military observers say the visit was intended to both cement bilateral cooperation between the two countries as well as signaling an attempt to put some space between Myanmar's previous close relationship to China.
GMS transport corridor as part of the East-West, North-South and Southern economic corridor will bring VietNam closer to Myanmar, NO ASEAN member will have to stand alone in the dark :chilli:

PM attends Greater Mekong Sub-region Summit
(20/12/2011-07:35:00 PM) Print preview
VGP - The 4th Greater Mekong Sub-region (GMS) Summit closed in Myanmar’s capital city of Nay Pyi Taw on Dec. 20th after two days of sitting.


GMS leaders at the summit opening ceremony
PM Nguyễn Tấn Dũng attended the summit together with leaders from Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, China and the host country.
In his speech delivered at the summit, PM Dũng repeated Việt Nam’s strong support for GMS cooperation.
He stressed the need to boost the mobilization of investment capital for infrastructure development, consolidate sub-regional cooperation mechanisms, and strengthen coordination of parties involved from central to local levels, between government and private sector for economic corridor development.
The Vietnamese PM also emphasized the necessity to enhance capacity building for policy makers and expand networks between economic regions and corridors to bolster trade and investment.
He underlined the maintenance of sustainable use of the Mekong river’s water for regional development, saying this should be a decisive factor in GMS cooperation in the next decade.
PM Dũng called for more efforts to mobilize funds from international organizations and development partners as well as to ensure a level-playing field and an efficient business environment and build a complete legal framework for drawing investment from the private sector.
Addressing the event, Myanmar President Thein Sein, for his part, said GMS economic programs have progressed and recorded positive results despite global economic uncertainties.
He expressed his support for the development of the GMS transport corridor as part of the East-West, North-South and Southern economic corridor to serve as a foundation for improving the competitiveness of member countries and regional connectivity.
According to President Thein Sein, in the next decade, nations should make greater efforts for further cooperation and the 2012-2022 Strategic Framework will guide GMS cooperation activities
News and events
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Vietam embarking on India thinking of it as ally much like Saddam, Ghaddafi, Hosni and Assad did! Does not help! This nis like Afghans dreaming to rule subcontinent!
 
I have seen lot of posts regarding China encircling India...But sometimes we have to understand the fact from the other side too...I can understand that Pakistan unilaterally given concession to China to build the Gwadar port...But we the indian should think that Why India can not cease the opportunity to build the port in Srilanka when it has been offered 1st to India?then why to blame other nation when we know that Indian GOV don't have the capacity to this high voltage foreign policy talks.......Think about the ragedy of our foreign policy....We donot have any influence on our immediate neighour like BD/Nepal/Myanmar...So why are we really thinking that Vietnam and India will really influence anything at the ground level wrt to China?

Even in case Vietnam offers some platform to India...Can India able to sustain it? I really doubt....So i feel these India Vietnam talk is good at very much strategic level but it may not have any impact in ground....Vietnam and India are just trying to use each other as a bargaining chip against China..But at one on one level both Vietnam and India will try to have a good relation or accomodate China's intrest...
 
Vietam embarking on India thinking of it as ally much like Saddam, Ghaddafi, Hosni and Assad did! Does not help! This nis like Afghans dreaming to rule subcontinent!

did india support action against ghaddafi,assad??
i dont know against saddam..
 
Vietam embarking on India thinking of it as ally much like Saddam, Ghaddafi, Hosni and Assad did! Does not help! This nis like Afghans dreaming to rule subcontinent!
Both India-VN's power will get stronger in future, so pls try to develop your country too instead of thinking our relationship can work or not:coffee:
Kaniska said:
I have seen lot of posts regarding China encircling India...But sometimes we have to understand the fact from the other side too...I can understand that Pakistan unilaterally given concession to China to build the Gwadar port...But we the indian should think that Why India can not cease the opportunity to build the port in Srilanka when it has been offered 1st to India?then why to blame other nation when we know that Indian GOV don't have the capacity to this high voltage foreign policy talks.......Think about the ragedy of our foreign policy....We donot have any influence on our immediate neighour like BD/Nepal/Myanmar...So why are we really thinking that Vietnam and India will really influence anything at the ground level wrt to China?

Even in case Vietnam offers some platform to India...Can India able to sustain it? I really doubt....So i feel these India Vietnam talk is good at very much strategic level but it may not have any impact in ground....Vietnam and India are just trying to use each other as a bargaining chip against China..But at one on one level both Vietnam and India will try to have a good relation or accomodate China's intrest...
Dude, we're strong enough to protect your benefit in SCS(east sea), we will shoot at any enemy warship dare to violate our EEZ.So, just enjoy your bussiness in SCS(east sea):cheers:

We never bargain about sovereignty, we only fight untill enemy have to withdraw all.
 
I have seen lot of posts regarding China encircling India...But sometimes we have to understand the fact from the other side too...I can understand that Pakistan unilaterally given concession to China to build the Gwadar port...But we the indian should think that Why India can not cease the opportunity to build the port in Srilanka when it has been offered 1st to India?then why to blame other nation when we know that Indian GOV don't have the capacity to this high voltage foreign policy talks.......Think about the ragedy of our foreign policy....We donot have any influence on our immediate neighour like BD/Nepal/Myanmar...So why are we really thinking that Vietnam and India will really influence anything at the ground level wrt to China?

Even in case Vietnam offers some platform to India...Can India able to sustain it? I really doubt....So i feel these India Vietnam talk is good at very much strategic level but it may not have any impact in ground....Vietnam and India are just trying to use each other as a bargaining chip against China..But at one on one level both Vietnam and India will try to have a good relation or accomodate China's intrest...

Very well said
 
viet govt is not strong enough to say no to china.Chinese have support in vietnam too.
 
India economy is in big trouble at the moment, they are more than ever before rely on trade with china to grow their economy ,they couldnt afford to irritate china that s why GOI backed down on the visa issue recently.
 
Vietam embarking on India thinking of it as ally much like Saddam, Ghaddafi, Hosni and Assad did! Does not help! This nis like Afghans dreaming to rule subcontinent!

One Question !! Is it not Right of India to Explore for Oil in South China Sea when China is Doing same In Indian ocean region ? Both of this Being International water According to Law

Is Chinese Stand on South China sea , Claiming whole South China sea and Objecting to Navigation through this area Legitimate ?
 
viet govt is not strong enough to say no to china.Chinese have support in vietnam too.
Of course we will Not say "No" if China wanna be our friend, but we will say NO if China violate our territoy , our EEZ.
 
Both India-VN's power will get stronger in future, so pls try to develop your country too instead of thinking our relationship can work or not:coffee:

Dude, we're strong enough to protect your benefit in SCS(east sea), we will shoot at any enemy warship dare to violate our EEZ.So, just enjoy your bussiness in SCS(east sea):cheers:

We never bargain about sovereignty, we only fight untill enemy have to withdraw all.

Sorry mate...Please dont take me wrong...I always appriciate the strength of Vietnam and i hope you become stronger...But my issue is with my own GOV and in particular the existing political set up in my country....Problem is that to cover up their own shortcomings, they just try to blame on others.....
No one is a gentleman here...China wants to expand its influence..And india too...But my concern is that when Sri Lanka gave that oppertunity then these idiotic congress Gov in India can not capitalize...And then Sri lanka offered it to China...I dont find anything wrong in it..

Simillarly my hope and wish is that India should not make same mistake with Vietnam as they have done with Sri lanka...If GOI has any commitment with Vietam then GOI should access their capacity and then provide commitment to Vietnam ...otherwise it will be just another pep talk only...
 
Of course we will Not say "No" if China wanna be our friend, but we will say NO if China violate our territoy , our EEZ.

Friend with crooked ungrateful like vietnam no no we learned our lesson, but pretend to be your friend and use you guys yes yes.
 

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