Vietnam government presents high-speed rail plan next year

[hoangsa74]

Some idiot just doesn't know what the crap he is talking about. It takes vietnam years to secure 1 billion usd ODA loan shark from japan to build the metro train line in saigon now. The spaniard the french are all interested in building the metro train line in saigon or hanoi but none is able to offer any loan to vietnam even though the loan is just 1 billion. Get back to reality and talk about borrowing 600 million instead of 60 billion, what a joke.

 

[Viet]

Actually no one in Vietnam cares about this HSR project. The news does not appear even on vnexpress.net.

I think in near future, the most feasible higher-speed railways (albeit not necessarily HSR) to be executed is the Lao Cai - Hanoi - Haiphong line, to connect with Kunming in China. Nearly 100% it will use Chinese technology.

After that, we will see what happens to the Hanoi - HCM HSR project.

are you sure nobody cares of the project, everybody is happy jumping on planes travelling Hanoi-Saigon 700 times per day? good that you mention the rail project Hanoi to Kunming. we will see how serious the Chinese consider the project. we need new 1,435 mm track running parallel to the existing narrow gauge of 1,000mm.

Indonesian HSR dont use goverment loans or G to G model, instead we do it by B to B model. Indonesian HSR is joint investment model between Indonesian privates and SOE consortium and China Railway company. By Creating new joint venture company in charge of the development and operational HSR system once it was completed the gov. of Indonesia only providing legal platform and law for the projects to commence smoothly. Feasibility study about profit and prospects for this project had convince major player from Japan, China and France to take the bid in which China won the game.

I don´t understand why your government does not want to involve in the project. every infrastructure in the world needs government support and money. private companies never have all resources available. besides, you pay more for the Chinese because of lack of government backing. and the project is not going forward by an inch.

 

[AViet]

are you sure nobody cares of the project, everybody is happy jumping on planes travelling Hanoi-Saigon 700 times per day? good that you mention the rail project Hanoi to Kunming. we will see how serious the Chinese consider the project. we need new 1,435 mm track running parallel to the existing narrow gauge of 1,000mm.

I don´t understand why your government does not want to involve in the project. every infrastructure in the world needs government support and money. private companies never have all resources available. besides, you pay more for the Chinese because of lack of government backing. and the project is not going forward by an inch.

Viet, let be practical.

Every Vietnamese love to see a HSR in our country. But it is not feasible in at least next 30 - 40 years. So talking about it now is just like talking about Vietnam becoming a superpower, just a waste of time.

 

[Viet]

Then why don't you start selling titanium and become 1 trillion USD richer?

Also, if you feed all the population of Japan, who will feed the rice farmers of Japan, who happens to be the strongest lobby out there?

because the $1 trillion titanium is beneath the earth surface. We need Hightech to extract it with a lowest possible cost. Until now we do on small scale.

Japan doesn't need rice production. Waste of money and resources. We can sell rice to the Japanese at a very competitive price.

Viet, let be practical.

Every Vietnamese love to see a HSR in our country. But it is not feasible in at least next 30 - 40 years. So talking about it now is just like talking about Vietnam becoming a superpower, just a waste of time.

Laos is poorer but gets HSR. Is the country a superpower? I don't make the news. It is the government who says VN needs and builds HSR.

 

[Nike]

are you sure nobody cares of the project, everybody is happy jumping on planes travelling Hanoi-Saigon 700 times per day? good that you mention the rail project Hanoi to Kunming. we will see how serious the Chinese consider the project. we need new 1,435 mm track running parallel to the existing narrow gauge of 1,000mm.

I don´t understand why your government does not want to involve in the project. every infrastructure in the world needs government support and money. private companies never have all resources available. besides, you pay more for the Chinese because of lack of government backing. and the project is not going forward by an inch.

First, Indonesian gov. never put HSR project as main priority. The priority is 35000 megawatt electric project, trans Sumatra-Java-Bali tollway project, Celebes railway projects, Borneo railway project, Trans Papua tollway, National Sea Toll project, trans Kalimantan border post roadway, building several international Airport in several provinces and 10,000 low cost apartment tower projects as part of millions subsidize housing scheme.

Second you grossly underestimated the financial capability of our private sector and SOE.

Third, the Jakarta-Bandung HSR project is currently under construction phase in several sector as we are speaking right now

while Vietnam HSR is still a distant pipe dream.....

 

[hoangsa74]

Japan offers loan with 0.1 percent interest rate in the case of Indonesia and India with 0.5 percent but you expect we pay 3 percent?
View attachment 383634

My goodness this is why you're clueless. The shorter the payback period, the lower the interest rate. Since you have admitted that VN is super POOR, then we can assume that the loan payback time is 30 years or more.

Now take a look at the current market rate for risk fee sovereign bond of Europe and see for yourself.
https://www.investing.com/rates-bonds/european-government-bonds?maturity_from=10&maturity_to=290

European countries are offering their bond at a little above or below 2% while America is offering 3.2% Why would Japan let Vietnam borrow $60 billion at 0.5% when Japan can lend that to Europe at a risk free return of 2% or the U.S at 3.2% instead? This is why people of this forum take you as a clown when you're talking about Japan will lend a high risk low credit country like Vietnam a near zero interest humongous loan.

If VN wants to borrow $60 billion to pursue the retarded HSR project, then the only way VN can secure the fund is to issue bond to creditors. Vietnam's 10-year bond is already at 5.8% interest rate, now image what a 30-year bond rate would be, 20% may I say? LOL

This is why no matter how millionth of time VN wants to present this HSR crap, it won't ever materialize due to lack of fund.

 

[Place Of Space]

Actually no one in Vietnam cares about this HSR project. The news does not appear even on vnexpress.net.

I think in near future, the most feasible higher-speed railways (albeit not necessarily HSR) to be executed is the Lao Cai - Hanoi - Haiphong line, to connect with Kunming in China. Nearly 100% it will use Chinese technology.

After that, we will see what happens to the Hanoi - HCM HSR project.

Vietnam terrirory is like a slim rope. Rail way can hardly work at its max efficiency. For better cost effective, Vietnam should join the China-Mekong HSRs network, connecting China, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand and nearby land.

 

[AViet]

because the $1 trillion titanium is beneath the earth surface. We need Hightech to extract it with a lowest possible cost. Until now we do on small scale.

Laos is poorer but gets HSR. Is the country a superpower? I don't make the news. It is the government who says VN needs and builds HSR.

Laos rail line currently under construction, to connect Kunming anđ Vientiane, is not HSR. It is just a single track, standard gauge diesel line, designed for speed between 160 - 200km/h. It is not HSR at all.

In Vietnam, the currently under construction line (temporary on hold, albeit completed around 50%) between Hanoi - Ha Long is similar (single track, dual gauge, diesel), with design speed of 120km/h. Just a few upgrade, it can run 160km/h, I believe.

But HSR is totally another story.

 

[Viet]

My goodness this is why you're clueless. The shorter the payback period, the lower the interest rate. Since you have admitted that VN is super POOR, then we can assume that the loan payback time is 30 years or more.

Now take a look at the current market rate for risk fee sovereign bond of Europe and see for yourself.
https://www.investing.com/rates-bonds/european-government-bonds?maturity_from=10&maturity_to=290

European countries are offering their bond at a little above or below 2% while America is offering 3.2% Why would Japan let Vietnam borrow $60 billion at 0.5% when Japan can lend that to Europe at a risk free return of 2% or the U.S at 3.2% instead? This is why people of this forum take you as a clown when you're talking about Japan will lend a high risk low credit country like Vietnam a near zero interest humongous loan.

If VN wants to borrow $60 billion to pursue the retarded HSR project, then the only way VN can secure the fund is to issue bond to creditors. Vietnam's 10-year bond is already at 5.8% interest rate, now image what a 30-year bond rate would be, 20% may I say? LOL

This is why no matter how millionth of time VN wants to present this HSR crap, it won't ever materialize due to lack of fund.

why the Japanese should lend money to Vietnam you asked? Because we are a friend of Japan. What do you think how long Japan can survive if the Chinese impose a sea blockade, shutting down the South China Sea for commercial traffic?

Not long I guess, until all Japan reserves run out.

You can say we are the defender of a free Japan.

Japan provides $2b ODA per year. We can use this Japanese money to pay back Japanese loan one to one. Assuming $60b loan payback period 30 years. I expect interest rate of no more than 0.5 pct.

Again it is the government of Vietnam that wants to build HSR. I expect we do it. And we develop a domestic HSR industry.

Vietnam terrirory is like a slim rope. Rail way can hardly work at its max efficiency. For better cost effective, Vietnam should join the China-Mekong HSRs network, connecting China, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand and nearby land.

the Japanese say HSR can run at 350kmh from Hanoi to Saigon. It is worthless to doubt it.

Vietnam will start Building a rail link and Highway to Laos this year. Similar plans to Cambodia. But no HSR.

Only conventional railway.

 

[Place Of Space]

why the Japanese should lend money to Vietnam you asked? Because we are a friend of Japan. What do you think how long Japan can survive if the Chinese impose a sea blockade, shutting down the South China Sea for commercial traffic?

Not long I guess, until all Japan reserves run out.

You can say we are the defender of a free Japan.

Japan provides $2b ODA per year. We can use this Japanese money to pay back Japanese loan one to one. Assuming $60b loan payback period 30 years. I expect interest rate of no more than 0.5 pct.

Again it is the government of Vietnam that wants to build HSR. I expect we do it. And we develop a domestic HSR industry.


the Japanese say HSR can run at 350kmh from Hanoi to Saigon. It is worthless to doubt it.

Vietnam will start Building a rail link and Highway to Laos this year. Similar plans to Cambodia. But no HSR.

Only conventional railway.

I didn't mean the speed (though speed is also very important), I meant to say the network is more efficient than line.

 

[Viet]

First, Indonesian gov. never put HSR project as main priority. The priority is 35000 megawatt electric project, trans Sumatra-Java-Bali tollway project, Celebes railway projects, Borneo railway project, Trans Papua tollway, National Sea Toll project, trans Kalimantan border post roadway, building several international Airport in several provinces and 10,000 low cost apartment tower projects as part of millions subsidize housing scheme.

Second you grossly underestimated the financial capability of our private sector and SOE.

Third, the Jakarta-Bandung HSR project is currently under construction phase in several sector as we are speaking right now

View attachment 383759
View attachment 383760
View attachment 383761

while Vietnam HSR is still a distant pipe dream.....

Correct me if I am wrong: the Chinese haven't provided the money you need for the HSR. What happens with Indonesia private banks? the financial strength of your private business sectors?

Without Chinese money you are going to nowhere obviously.

 

[Nike]

Correct me if I am wrong: the Chinese haven't provided the money you need for the HSR. What happens with Indonesia private banks? the financial strength of your private business sectors?

Without Chinese money you are going to nowhere obviously.

sigh, without Chinese money? you are obviously clueless aren't cha? there is no project if the Chinese railway company doesn't bring the money and expertise by signing the working contract in first place.

 

[hoangsa74]

why the Japanese should lend money to Vietnam you asked? Because we are a friend of Japan. What do you think how long Japan can survive if the Chinese impose a sea blockade, shutting down the South China Sea for commercial traffic?

Not long I guess, until all Japan reserves run out.

You can say we are the defender of a free Japan.

Japan provides $2b ODA per year. We can use this Japanese money to pay back Japanese loan one to one. Assuming $60b loan payback period 30 years. I expect interest rate of no more than 0.5 pct.

Again it is the government of Vietnam that wants to build HSR. I expect we do it. And we develop a domestic HSR industry.

Rubbish, your viet military is too WEAK and can't even defend their sealane if the Chinese decide to blockade you and prevent you from venturing out beyond the 12 nautical mile from your coast.

The Japanese Navy is more than capable to give the Chinese a lesson if push comes to shove. Secondly, the Japanese don't need the SCS for oil import from the Middle East. In case of war, they can buy oil from Russia, Canada, the U.S, Venuezla if they want to. The Japanese don't need the SCS for export either; their bread and butter business is exporting to the American consumer market and they can ship their products straight across the pacific.

The one who got hurt the most by a Chinese blockade of SCS is Vietnam. Vietnam's bread and butter business i.e. her trade surplus is from exporting to the U.S and when the Chinese prevent Vietnam from going out into the sea, Vietnam is the most dead meat state in all the states in SE Asia. Take the Philippines for instance, they can ship their products straight across the pacific without needing the SCS for anything.

Viet military is too WEAK to even defend their soverighty and now you claim that viet military is a defender of a free japan or whatever? LOL. You just troll yourself by boasting crap like that buddy

 

[Jlaw]

Both viets and indians are too poor for HSR.
More importantly, (if they have one) their HSR prices will be way more expensive than in China, because they will never be able to nurture an HSR industry, therefore they will be entirely reliant on imports.

And of course HSR is way more important than airplanes on a 1000+km corridor.
You can't have an airport every 20km, but HSRs can.
HSR is 10 times more important in terms of regional integration, tons of World Bank reports have confirmed.

The GDP of Vietnam cannot justify a HSR. HK's GDP is larger than Vietnam.

 

[terranMarine]

The GDP of Vietnam cannot justify a HSR. HK's GDP is larger than Vietnam.

Vietnam think she can afford it, will be interesting to see how it will turn out.