Vietnam Defence Forum

[Carlosa]

If you were really from Spain (which I believe you are not), you should care about the deep corruption in your own country and do not point finger to Vietnam.

Vietnam corruption is severe, I know, but not at the level of Spain and a lot of "democratic" countries in the West, including South Europe, Latin America or South Asia. In the West, money can buy everything and rich people never go to jail, but not in Vietnam. In other words, the corruption in Vietnam and the West have different nature. In Vietnam, it is quite easy to be seen in the sense of "lubricant money", but you cannot change the system, policies or laws. In the rich Western countries, corruption is not that open, but with money, you can buy almost everything.

Not at the level of Spain? That shows how much you know, another one living in its own fantasy world.

You are completely missing the point. One form of terminal cancer is no better than the other. It's like saying," I only have colon cancer, but you have blood cancer so that makes me better."

These type of people don't have enough brains to figure that out. You'll never get through them.

 

[Viet]

So you are talking about the south, right?



That's exactly how it is and everybody in Vietnam knows that.



That's why I said it is a cancer and that's how most Vietnamese see it. That's why most businesses in Vietnam say that their number one problem is corruption. Only party members, cronies that benefit from the corruption and a few idealistic fools that believe the government propaganda say its not that way.

Yes I mean south Vietnam. With the arrival of US troops and US dollars, the society along with the people goes downhill as if there isn’t tomorrow, every day can be the last day. Ok If one considers Vietnam has seen constant war after war for more than hundred years, that isn’t a surprise. But now VN enjoys peace so corruption should ease.

Life was not a piece of cake, the elders from the south can tell stories.

Earlier in Germany if someone wanted to get a visa at VN consulate, thing went faster if money was included in the application form. Such annoying practice luckily has stopped.

 

[Nilgiri]

Transparency International ranks India as the most corrupted country in Asia and Vietnam is second.

tbh, they did not even include all the countries (neither was the measurement components broad, I think it was just survey of bribe taking) so cannot use "Asia"....but I get what you are saying.

Better measure for more broad inclusion of countries (Asia and the world) is CPI (corruption perception index). Vietnam not doing atrociously on it, but can of course improve by a huge amount.

There is also cato freedom index which has measures on corruption and institution within it I believe too for those interested.

Hopefully this thread gets back on topic sooner than later.

 

[DarkMoon198]

tbh, they did not even include all the countries (neither was the measurement components broad, I think it was just survey of bribe taking) so cannot use "Asia"....but I get what you are saying.

Better measure for more broad inclusion of countries (Asia and the world) is CPI (corruption perception index). Vietnam not doing atrociously on it, but can of course improve by a huge amount.

There is also cato freedom index which has measures on corruption and institution within it I believe too for those interested.

Hopefully this thread gets back on topic sooner than later.

That survey is based on perception of people about corruption in both countries. Not actual study and statistic about corruption in both countries. The perception might be high at the moment because a lot of case got expose and publish to the public and government trying to solve it. And the sample they survey are small, i think i read somewhere that they interview about 1000 people only
Also the problem lie in culture. Many people in Vietnam still hold the old idea of “Một người làm quan cả họ được nhờ” roughly translate as one person hold the public servant title, he/she will feed the entire families and relatives. It will take decades with education to solve that

 

[Carlosa]

tbh, they did not even include all the countries (neither was the measurement components broad, I think it was just survey of bribe taking) so cannot use "Asia"....but I get what you are saying.

Better measure for more broad inclusion of countries (Asia and the world) is CPI (corruption perception index). Vietnam not doing atrociously on it, but can of course improve by a huge amount.

There is also cato freedom index which has measures on corruption and institution within it I believe too for those interested.

Hopefully this thread gets back on topic sooner than later.

That particular corruption perception index from Transparency International is just the latest one that they put out. They also have a very comprehensive perception index that they publish every few years that includes surveys/assessments from business people and performance assessments from a group of analysts and from a number of well known institutions. The latest one is from 2016. Here is the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index#Rankings

In that 2016 index 176 countries are included. Some rankings: Spain 41, Malaysia 55, India & China 79, Indonesia 90, PH & Thailand 101, Vietnam 113, Cambodia 156, N. Korea 176.

Anyway, as I said before, different organizations have different ranking, but the point here is that there is no doubt that Vietnam has massive corruption and when the majority of businesses say that corruption is their number one problem, that says everything. Ignoring the problem or pretending that is is not as bad as it is only helps to perpetuate the problem which is what some people here do.

Yes I mean south Vietnam. With the arrival of US troops and US dollars, the society along with the people goes downhill as if there isn’t tomorrow, every day can be the last day. Ok If one considers Vietnam has seen constant war after war for more than hundred years, that isn’t a surprise. But now VN enjoys peace so corruption should ease.

Life was not a piece of cake, the elders from the south can tell stories.

Earlier in Germany if someone wanted to get a visa at VN consulate, thing went faster if money was included in the application form. Such annoying practice luckily has stopped.

I understand that South Vietnam had a corruption issue but considering that south vietnamese government officials were either fired, sent to reeducation camps or killed, I don't see how they can influence the rise of corruption in the north where Hanoi is the main center of government corruption.

It would be nice if corruption would ease because of peace but what I keep reading in the vietnamese newspapers is that both individuals and businesses say that its getting worse every year.

 

[Carlosa]

European Commission - Press release
Commission warns Vietnam over insufficient action to fight illegal fishing
Brussels, 23 October 2017
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-17-4064_en.htm

The European Commission is continuing its fight against illegal, unreported and unregulated (IUU) fishing worldwide by warning Vietnam, with a "yellow card", about the risk of it being identified as a non-cooperating country.

Today's decision highlights that Vietnam is not doing enough to fight illegal fishing. It identifies shortcomings, such as the lack of an effective sanctioning system to deter IUU fishing activities and a lack of action to address illegal fishing activities conducted by Vietnamese vessels in waters of neighbouring countries, including Pacific Small Island Developing States. Furthermore, Vietnam has a poor system to control landings of fish that is processed locally before being exported to international markets, including the EU.

Commissioner for Environment, Maritime Affairs and Fisheries, Karmenu Vella, said: “With this action today we demonstrate our firm commitment to fight illegal fishing globally. We cannot ignore the impact that illegal activities conducted by Vietnamese vessels are having on marine ecosystems in the Pacific. We invite the Vietnamese authorities to step up their fight so we can reverse this decision quickly. We are offering them our technical support."

The decision does not, at this stage, entail any measures affecting trade. The "yellow card" is considered as a warning and offers the possibility for Vietnam to take measures to rectify the situation within a reasonable timeframe. To this end the Commission has proposed an action plan to support the country in addressing the identified shortcomings.

The Commission decision is a result of a thorough analysis and takes into due account the level of development of the country. It follows a long period of informal discussions with Vietnamese authorities since 2012. Vietnamese authorities are now invited to engage in a formal procedure of dialogue to resolve the identified issues and implement the Action plan.

Background

Between 11 and 26 million tonnes of fish, i.e. at least 15% of world catches, are caught illegally a year. This is worth between 8 and 19 billion euros. As the world's biggest fish importer, the EU does not wish to be complicit and accept such products into its market. The so-called 'IUU Regulation', which entered into force in 2010, is the key instrument in the fight against illegal fishing ensuring that only those fishery products that have been certified as legal can access the EU market. With this objective, the Commission maintains bilateral dialogues with more than 50 third countries. When third States are unable to comply with their international obligations as flag, coastal, port and market States, the Commission formalises this process of cooperation and assistance with them to help improve their legal and administrative frameworks to fight against IUU fishing. The steps in this process are first a warning ("yellow card"), a "green card" if issues are solved or a "red card" if they aren't. The latter leads to a listing by the Council, followed by a series of measures for the third country, including a trade ban on fishery products.

Since November 2012 the Commission has been in formal dialogues with several third countries (pre-identification or "yellow card") that have been warned of the need to take strong action to fight IUU fishing. When significant progress is observed, the Commission can end the dialogue (lifting the pre-identification status or "green card"). A few countries have not shown the necessary commitment to reforms. As a result, fisheries products caught by vessels from these countries cannot be imported into the EU (identification and listing or "red card"). A full list of countries is available here.

Fighting illegal fishing is part of the EU's commitment to ensure the sustainable use of the sea and its resources as set out in its International Ocean Governance Agenda. Sustainable fisheries and the fight against IUU were also one of the main topics discussed at the 4th international Our Ocean conference hosted by the European Union in Malta, 5-6 October 2017.

 

[Viet]

Why saying communist regime work when it all fall apart everywhere??? Viet Nam is corrupted from the lowest official to the top official, almost everything have a price tag in Viet Nam. In wealthy countries, the corruption is more concentrated on the top, less visible … Ever try to bribe a cop for a traffic ticket or buy your driver license in Europe or USA? Lobbying doesn't guarantee you anything, it just putting pressure on something you want. The corruption in Viet Nam is so bad that even the food are unsafe to eat, government jobs are for sale, plenty of fake education certificates and government officials (especially the traffic cops) are among the most hated individuals in the society and we all know the reasons beside you…. . And almost all the big villas are belonging to government executives/leadership and Vnese tycoons connected to the Party. Viet Nam was saved from starvation and poverty in late 1980s by adapting capitalism policies. If Vietnamese communist society was so great, why millions Viets (both North and South) fled the country? Today Viet Nam is a (almost)free market and capitalist country, the only thing that is communist is the communist party and it politics.

How Cuba the communist paradise island is doing? I have been in Cuba many times (about 5 times) , it freaking poor, every buildings look like it will collapse anytime and most people live in misery with less 30$ US a month (all they want is to get the hell out…) and are willing to do anything for few dollars.. . The Cubans are still riding bicycles and horses carriages because gasoline and cars are too expensive. It’s just as corrupted as VN, you can buy almost everything with money in Cuba (and it's much cheaper than VN) . And please don’t tell me about their best medical care (it only for tourists with big money from insurance), average Cubans with no money have third world class care (inside dirty old building with old equipments). Cuba is sending their best doctors and nurses outside to pay their debts. Cuba still survive today because of the western tourists and dollars (Cuba have the best beaches in the Caribbean) and donations from others countries (like the rice from VN). Capitalism is not great but it’s better than communist (jailed everyone that criticized their unpractical politics and economic decisions). Stop trying to sell your crap communist propaganda, if you love so much the communist then go live in Cuba or North Korea.

Also, if you think you can’t buy illegal guns in VN, go watch those VN cop videos Nhat ky 141 on youtube… It freaking scary seeing people get pull over with pistols, rifles, grenades in VN cities...

Just curious what purpose you have been to Cuba? I know cuba beach is great, Cuba libre too, but 5 times?

Anyway besides Cuba, the other prime example is Venezuela, one can see how ignorance and stupidity ruins a country.

Ah a news at least concerning military activity

Opening a VN/CN friendship house with the participation of PLA General Fan Changlong at the border to China

 

[Viva_Viet]

I have wondered about this. And this is not an endorsement of communism nor am I trying to justify communism. But it had occurred to me that capitalist states have attacked, dismantled, and subvert every communist country to have ever exist. They all fail or will fail not because of their own doing, but they fail due to an outside force engineering their failure. Venezuela for a current one. Is it because they do not want to see a communist country succeed? Possibly. Why would they do this? The two are not mutually exclusive. They can co-exist so why must one strangle the other?

"

In fact, US capitalist strangle any countries that dont allow her to exploit/take control like VN, Iran, Syria etc.

US knows that its weakness in the capitalist system is the economic crisis that will happen when the capitalist system produce too much products , much more than ppl's demand leading to the crash of banking system. Just like US's power start getting weaken after 2008 economic crisis leading to the raise of Russia's power . If Mr.Putin is smart enough, then Russia can beat US in Europe and take back East Germany as Soviet did in history.

 

[Nilgiri]

That particular corruption perception index from Transparency International is just the latest one that they put out. They also have a very comprehensive perception index that they publish every few years that includes surveys/assessments from business people and performance assessments from a group of analysts and from a number of well known institutions. The latest one is from 2016. Here is the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index#Rankings

In that 2016 index 176 countries are included. Some rankings: Spain 41, Malaysia 55, India & China 79, Indonesia 90, PH & Thailand 101, Vietnam 113, Cambodia 156, N. Korea 176.

Anyway, as I said before, different organizations have different ranking, but the point here is that there is no doubt that Vietnam has massive corruption and when the majority of businesses say that corruption is their number one problem, that says everything. Ignoring the problem or pretending that is is not as bad as it is only helps to perpetuate the problem which is what some people here do.



I understand that South Vietnam had a corruption issue but considering that south vietnamese government officials were either fired, sent to reeducation camps or killed, I don't see how they can influence the rise of corruption in the north where Hanoi is the main center of government corruption.

It would be nice if corruption would ease because of peace but what I keep reading in the vietnamese newspapers is that both individuals and businesses say that its getting worse every year.

Yah it seems we were talking about the same thing (CPI), my bad.

That survey is based on perception of people about corruption in both countries. Not actual study and statistic about corruption in both countries.

No real way to get hard "non-perception/absolute" stats on corruption....thats the number one problem.

But yes this makes cross country comparison somewhat flawed too since people may perceive differently and have different standards etc....just like the happiness index etc.

It still gives somewhat of a basis though, and I tend to compare countries using CPI only when they are in same kind of immediate cultural/historical/demographic zone etc...given I can assume the perceptions to be more similar than across much larger distances/differences.

 

[AViet]

That particular corruption perception index from Transparency International is just the latest one that they put out. They also have a very comprehensive perception index that they publish every few years that includes surveys/assessments from business people and performance assessments from a group of analysts and from a number of well known institutions. The latest one is from 2016. Here is the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index#Rankings

In that 2016 index 176 countries are included. Some rankings: Spain 41, Malaysia 55, India & China 79, Indonesia 90, PH & Thailand 101, Vietnam 113, Cambodia 156, N. Korea 176.

Anyway, as I said before, different organizations have different ranking, but the point here is that there is no doubt that Vietnam has massive corruption and when the majority of businesses say that corruption is their number one problem, that says everything. Ignoring the problem or pretending that is is not as bad as it is only helps to perpetuate the problem which is what some people here do.

I understand that South Vietnam had a corruption issue but considering that south vietnamese government officials were either fired, sent to reeducation camps or killed, I don't see how they can influence the rise of corruption in the north where Hanoi is the main center of government corruption.

It would be nice if corruption would ease because of peace but what I keep reading in the vietnamese newspapers is that both individuals and businesses say that its getting worse every year.

I do not give a dime to the value of Transparency International, which is an US-controlled organization, after they ranked North Korea, one of the cleanest country in the world, at the bottom.

The basic definition of corruption is that with money, you can buy someone to do something. But in North Korea, even with hundred billions US$ to spend, CIA have failed to buy a single one to do things, even the smallest thing, e.g. an explosion, let alone overthrowing the government, like they have done in almost all puppet regimes, including rich countries in the West.

Regarding Spain, your knowledge again confirms my belief that you are not a Spaniard, as you don't know that during construction boom, corrupt officials lobbied to build an airport within a distance of every 60km, leading to many expensive airports now staying idle with no passenger. I do not see that level of corruption in any country.

And I do not bother to quarrel with you about who living in fantasy world now. We will see more clear in next 10 years.

 

[proka89]

Did you guys know that in 2015 Vietnam signed agreement with Serbian company Krusik, in total worth around 30 million of euros for technology transfer, installation of equipment and modernization of 9M14 Malyutka ATGM. The whole deal is predicted to last 36 months, divided in three phases.

First phase is delivery of equipment, parts and tools for overhaul and modernisation of the first 50 rockets to the Malyutka 2T (tandem warhead) level. With Krusik technology Vietnam built a factory for overhaul and modernization of these rockets.

Second phase is production of modernization kits, including 2T and 2F warheads in Krusik facilities. It is predicted that Vietnam will overhaul and modernize 2500 of Malytkas. 2000 of them with 2T (tandem) and 500 of them with 2F(thermobaric) warheads.

Third phase is two deliveries of 750 modernization kits each to Vietnam.

Factory in Vietnam was supposed to start production on 20 September, and to complete the modernization of first 50 rockets by the end of october.

 

[Carlosa]

I do not give a dime to the value of Transparency International, which is an US-controlled organization, after they ranked North Korea, one of the cleanest country in the world, at the bottom.

The basic definition of corruption is that with money, you can buy someone to do something. But in North Korea, even with hundred billions US$ to spend, CIA have failed to buy a single one to do things, even the smallest thing, e.g. an explosion, let alone overthrowing the government, like they have done in almost all puppet regimes, including rich countries in the West.

Regarding Spain, your knowledge again confirms my belief that you are not a Spaniard, as you don't know that during construction boom, corrupt officials lobbied to build an airport within a distance of every 60km, leading to many expensive airports now staying idle with no passenger. I do not see that level of corruption in any country.

And I do not bother to quarrel with you about who living in fantasy world now. We will see more clear in next 10 years.

I know plenty more than you about Spain and when you say that VN has less corruption than Spain & EU you show how ignorant you are. And by the way, that type of situation related to construction is "normal" in VN and its been like that for decades. Why do you think the Danang leaders were sanctioned recently? Construction of hotels and resorts in Son Tra forest even that it requires PMs approval which they did not have. How about the resort that paved hectares of sea in Nha Trang bay and only has to pay a small fine, try to find something like that in Europe. How about all the airports and ports built in VN that are not been used and are loosing money like crazy? How about the $500 million museum they want to build in Hanoi?

So I'm not Spanish? And how do you know that I didn't know about all that about Spain? I can tell you plenty more than that about corruption in Spain that you don't know about, but it doesn't change the fact that VN is massively corrupted and certainly far more than Spain or any EU country. Only ignorant fools think otherwise, the same ones that say they don't care about corruption surveys, but we are suppose to care for your useless statements?

---------------------------

This is how "corruption clean up" works in Vietnam; from today news, inform the public about corruption and you get jailed for 6 years for anti state propaganda. Funny, I thought the government wanted to clean corruption.

Vietnam student activist jailed for six years
25 Oct 2017 04:24PM (Updated: 25 Oct 2017 04:30PM)

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...student-activist-jailed-for-six-years-9342834

HANOI: A Vietnamese student was sentenced Wednesday (Oct 25) to six years in prison for anti-state propaganda, as the government tightens its grip on critics before an Asia-Pacific summit in the country next month.

Scores of dissidents are already behind bars in the communist state, and rights groups say 2017 has been a particularly harsh year for activists with a spate of arrests and heavy jail sentences.

Phan Kim Khanh, 24, was sentenced for anti-state activities, his lawyer told AFP, blasting the trial as "biased".

"The court decided to put him in jail for six years and another four years on probation afterwards," Ha Huy Son said.

Khanh was arrested in March during his final year of an international studies degree at Thai Nguyen University in northern Vietnam.

He reportedly ran several blogs and YouTube channels where he voiced opinions on corruption and politics.

Son said his client was calm in court Wednesday as he apologized for what he had done.

His sister told AFP Khanh had not broken the law.

"We did not know what he did. But I think he's innocent," Phan Thi Trang said.

Khanh joins scores of dissidents already behind bars.

There is no independent media in the country, though bloggers and activists have become increasingly vocal on social media in recent years.

Analysts say authorities have ramped up a clampdown on activists before an Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in November.

Others say the current conservative leadership in power since last year has become bolder in pursuing its critics since the election of US President Donald Trump.

Trump's administration has been accused of turning its back on human rights while seeking overseas trade deals.

Human Rights Watch said foreign governments should put pressure on Vietnam at the APEC meeting.

"International donors and trade partners need to step up pressure on the country's leaders to improve its abysmal rights record, and the APEC summit is a good moment to start," HRW Asia director Brad Adams said in a statement.

The group said at least 28 people have been arrested for "vaguely-interpreted" national security violations over the past year.

Source: AFP/ad
Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...student-activist-jailed-for-six-years-9342834

 

[Nike]

Did you guys know that in 2015 Vietnam signed agreement with Serbian company Krusik, in total worth around 30 million of euros for technology transfer, installation of equipment and modernization of 9M14 Malyutka ATGM. The whole deal is predicted to last 36 months, divided in three phases.

First phase is delivery of equipment, parts and tools for overhaul and modernisation of the first 50 rockets to the Malyutka 2T (tandem warhead) level. With Krusik technology Vietnam built a factory for overhaul and modernization of these rockets.

Second phase is production of modernization kits, including 2T and 2F warheads in Krusik facilities. It is predicted that Vietnam will overhaul and modernize 2500 of Malytkas. 2000 of them with 2T (tandem) and 500 of them with 2F(thermobaric) warheads.

Third phase is two deliveries of 750 modernization kits each to Vietnam.

Factory in Vietnam was supposed to start production on 20 September, and to complete the modernization of first 50 rockets by the end of october.

Any news about their guidance system?

 

[Carlosa]

Did you guys know that in 2015 Vietnam signed agreement with Serbian company Krusik, in total worth around 30 million of euros for technology transfer, installation of equipment and modernization of 9M14 Malyutka ATGM. The whole deal is predicted to last 36 months, divided in three phases.

First phase is delivery of equipment, parts and tools for overhaul and modernisation of the first 50 rockets to the Malyutka 2T (tandem warhead) level. With Krusik technology Vietnam built a factory for overhaul and modernization of these rockets.

Second phase is production of modernization kits, including 2T and 2F warheads in Krusik facilities. It is predicted that Vietnam will overhaul and modernize 2500 of Malytkas. 2000 of them with 2T (tandem) and 500 of them with 2F(thermobaric) warheads.

Third phase is two deliveries of 750 modernization kits each to Vietnam.

Factory in Vietnam was supposed to start production on 20 September, and to complete the modernization of first 50 rockets by the end of october.

We knew about this, me and one other poster here had posted about this in detail, but the information from Vietnam about this was that it was an indigenous Vietnamese project, there was no mention at all of a foreign company or assistance so Its very interesting that it was done under license and tech transfer.

 

[Viva_Viet]

I know plenty more than you about Spain and when you say that VN has less corruption than Spain & EU you show how ignorant you are. And by the way, that type of situation related to construction is "normal" in VN and its been like that for decades. Why do you think the Danang leaders were sanctioned recently? Construction of hotels and resorts in Son Tra forest even that it requires PMs approval which they did not have. How about the resort that paved hectares of sea in Nha Trang bay and only has to pay a small fine, try to find something like that in Europe. How about all the airports and ports built in VN that are not been used and are loosing money like crazy? How about the $500 million museum they want to build in Hanoi?

So I'm not Spanish? And how do you know that I didn't know about all that about Spain? I can tell you plenty more than that about corruption in Spain that you don't know about, but it doesn't change the fact that VN is massively corrupted and certainly far more than Spain or any EU country. Only ignorant fools think otherwise, the same ones that say they don't care about corruption surveys, but we are suppose to care for your useless statements?

---------------------------

This is how "corruption clean up" works in Vietnam; from today news, inform the public about corruption and you get jailed for 6 years for anti state propaganda. Funny, I thought the government wanted to clean corruption.

Vietnam student activist jailed for six years
25 Oct 2017 04:24PM (Updated: 25 Oct 2017 04:30PM)

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...student-activist-jailed-for-six-years-9342834

HANOI: A Vietnamese student was sentenced Wednesday (Oct 25) to six years in prison for anti-state propaganda, as the government tightens its grip on critics before an Asia-Pacific summit in the country next month.

Scores of dissidents are already behind bars in the communist state, and rights groups say 2017 has been a particularly harsh year for activists with a spate of arrests and heavy jail sentences.

Phan Kim Khanh, 24, was sentenced for anti-state activities, his lawyer told AFP, blasting the trial as "biased".

"The court decided to put him in jail for six years and another four years on probation afterwards," Ha Huy Son said.

Khanh was arrested in March during his final year of an international studies degree at Thai Nguyen University in northern Vietnam.

He reportedly ran several blogs and YouTube channels where he voiced opinions on corruption and politics.

Son said his client was calm in court Wednesday as he apologized for what he had done.

His sister told AFP Khanh had not broken the law.

"We did not know what he did. But I think he's innocent," Phan Thi Trang said.

Khanh joins scores of dissidents already behind bars.

There is no independent media in the country, though bloggers and activists have become increasingly vocal on social media in recent years.

Analysts say authorities have ramped up a clampdown on activists before an Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in November.

Others say the current conservative leadership in power since last year has become bolder in pursuing its critics since the election of US President Donald Trump.

Trump's administration has been accused of turning its back on human rights while seeking overseas trade deals.

Human Rights Watch said foreign governments should put pressure on Vietnam at the APEC meeting.

"International donors and trade partners need to step up pressure on the country's leaders to improve its abysmal rights record, and the APEC summit is a good moment to start," HRW Asia director Brad Adams said in a statement.

The group said at least 28 people have been arrested for "vaguely-interpreted" national security violations over the past year.

Source: AFP/ad
Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...student-activist-jailed-for-six-years-9342834

U lose all points when keep lying that VN's corruption is worse than your dirty capitalist system. Can u bribe our officers to buy 1,000 guns, open a gun shop and sell gun in VN ?? No, u never can while u can do it in US.

SO, why dont u just shut up , wait and see which system will collapse first ?? EU without daddy US is just a big mess and die again in another hyper inflation. Dont try to pretend as a Spanish.

This one show how stupid German is when living without daddy US.