Vietnam Defence Forum

[Farhan Bohra]

1. False Equivalencies. We're not talking about contemporary tanks or earlier we're talking about a tank from WW2. The problems with the T-34 is they don't have any place on the modern battlefield. Any job a T-34 can do an IFV can do better. Like the BMP.

Case example:We do not retire our AMX-13 because it still have a use as a tank destroyer and as SPH. A T-34 going up against AMX-13 is just signing their deathwish.

Those are war reserves, and war reserves are for worst case scenario.
During worst case scenario is not about battle worthy or not, or win or defeat. Thats life or death.

If situation remain so wonderful, or during contact battles. T-34 will never be used against anyone by Vietnam.

Case example:We do not retire our AMX-13 because it still have a use as a tank destroyer and as SPH. A T-34 going up against AMX-13 is just signing their deathwish.

T-34 never see AMX-13. Rest assured.

If in Indian Army's inventory T-55 exist, that doesnt means Indian Army use T-55 against their adversaries/

 

[Carlosa]

1. False Equivalencies. We're not talking about contemporary tanks or earlier we're talking about a tank from WW2. The problems with the T-34 is they don't have any place on the modern battlefield. Any job a T-34 can do an IFV can do better. Like the BMP.

Case example:We do not retire our AMX-13 because it still have a use as a tank destroyer and as SPH. A T-34 going up against AMX-13 is just signing their deathwish.

False assumptions, who said that the T-34 will get used against tanks.

A T-34 that is well camouflaged or buried in a bunker (as Vietnam has done in the Spratlys) will do the first shot and that shot is very valuable.

You obviously have very little knowledge of actual warfare, maybe you should watch some History channel documentaries to try to learn something. And you called yourself formil? You remind me of the chinese teenagers in this forum that read articles online and think they are military experts.

Those are war reserves, and war reserves are for worst case scenario.
During worst case scenario is not about battle worthy or not, or win or defeat. Thats life or death.

If situation remain so wonderful, or during contact battles. T-34 will never be used against anyone by Vietnam.



T-34 never see AMX-13. Rest assured.

If in Indian Army's inventory T-55 exist, that doesnt means Indian Army use T-55 against their adversaries/

Its always the same story with this guy, he comes up with wild statements and then when he can't back them up, he starts to make up facts or excuses.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Those are war reserves, and war reserves are for worst case scenario.
During worst case scenario is not about battle worthy or not, or win or defeat. Thats life or death.

If situation remain so wonderful, or during contact battles. T-34 will never be used against anyone by Vietnam.



T-34 never see AMX-13. Rest assured.

If in Indian Army's inventory T-55 exist, that doesnt means Indian Army use T-55 against their adversaries/

Exactly life & death. Of which the crewmen will get the later if pushed into a possible conflict. Speaking of life & death. A weapon have a service life of which the T-34 clearly passed waaayyy beyond it.

Also T-55 are a different case because there's actually still a use 4 them thanks to continous upgrade. But there are limit on how you can upgrade a vehicle hence why the need 4 replacement.

Another case is the M113 carrier despite being old it will not be replaced anytime soon. Cannot say the same to viet T-34s.

 

[Carlosa]

Exactly life & death. Of which the crewmen will get the later if pushed into a possible conflict. Speaking of life & death. A weapon have a service life of which the T-34 clearly passed waaayyy beyond it.

Also T-55 are a different case because there's actually still a use 4 them thanks to continous upgrade. But there are limit on how you can upgrade a vehicle hence why the need 4 replacement.

Another case is the M113 carrier despite being old it will not be replaced anytime soon. Cannot say the same to viet T-34s.

You don't get it, Vietnam is very creative when it comes to using equipment as they have shown during the war.

Who are you to tell them what they should keep or not?

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Exactly life & death. Of which the crewmen will get the later if pushed into a possible conflict. Speaking of life & death. A weapon have a service life of which the T-34 clearly passed waaayyy beyond it.

Also T-55 are a different case because there's actually still a use 4 them thanks to continous upgrade. But there are limit on how you can upgrade a vehicle hence why the need 4 replacement.

Another case is the M113 carrier despite being old it will not be replaced anytime soon. Cannot say the same to viet T-34s.

Facepalm,

I can assure you in today's world Indonesia get a$$ kicked in AMX-13, if it used in contact battles.

And BTW, you are not comparing war doctrines or equipments. You want to patronize other.

You want comparison? why you not comparing that with India that is just 80 Km from Indonesia? Why Vietnam that is very very far away from Indonesia?

Even why you comparing? When there is no chance of war between Indonesia and Vietnam? Each country have there own threat matrix.

Or you want war between Indonesia and Vietnam?

I can assure you that never happen, big powers never allow that.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Facepalm,

I can assure you in today's world Indonesia get a$$ kicked in AMX-13, if it used in contact battles.

And BTW, you are not comparing war doctrines or equipments. You want to patronize other.

You want comparison, why you not comparing that with India that is just 80 Km from Indonesia? Why Vietnam that is very very far away from Indonesia?

Name me 1 country beside vietnam that still keep T-34s... You got your answer.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Name me 1 country beside vietnam that still keep T-34s... You got your answer.

You already got your answer.

That is war reserve, not in active duty. While AMX-13 is in active duty of Indonesia. Please will you describe war reserves of Indonesia?

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

You already got your answer.

That is war reserve, not in active duty. While AMX-13 is in active duty of Indonesia? Please will you describe war reserves of Indonesia?

Anything past 30 are slowly being replaced. Unless they cannot upgrade it anymore as per procedure. An AMX still have its uses as a tank destroyer & howitzer. Like I said earlier its not about them keeping what's what, but about them actually feeling proud by keeping a relic in service. Wasting storage spaces & resources of all thing.

Also I want you to back up a bit & think 4 a second. You are essentially supporting keeping outdated equipment that are way past its expiration date. We're talking about WW2 era weapons here not cold war.

I'm not telling the vietnamese on what to do this is my opinion on the wastefulness of keeping an outdated equipments.

 

[Viet]

You don't get it, Vietnam is very creative when it comes to using equipment as they have shown during the war.

Who are you to tell them what they should keep or not?

bro I laugh at delusional people. they never know winning a war is more than counting men and military hardware.
otherwise we never have a chance winning against enemies that are mulitple times bigger than our army. the Mongols once established a vast empire than spans half of Asia and Europe. their army hordes were rolling over countries and continents, subjugating even China empire, doing endless massacres on populace that dared to resist. they fielded more men, more horses, more weapons than we ever had in our inventory. But going to war against Vietnam, the mongol armies suffered a total blow. they tried 3 times, all ended as military disaster for them.

the decisive battle of banh dang river under the command of tran hung dao

 

[Carlosa]

I'm not telling the vietnamese on what to do this is my opinion on the wastefulness of keeping an outdated equipments.

No kidding. Since when the Vietnamese army needs your opinion to decide what to keep in reserve?
They have the space, the labor for maintenance is cheap and they want to keep it in reserve. So what is your problem with that?

You don't have anything better to talk about?

bro I laugh at delusional people. they never know winning a war is more than counting men and military hardware.
otherwise we never have a chance winning against enemies that are mulitple bigger than our army. the Mongols once established a vast empire than spans half of Asia and Europe. their army hordes were rolling over countries and continents, subjugating even China empire, doing endless massacres on populace that dared to resist. But against Vietnam, the mongol armies suffered a total blow. they tried 3 times, all ended as disaster for them.

That's why I said this guy reminds me of the chinese teenagers in PDF.

You already got your answer.

That is war reserve, not in active duty. While AMX-13 is in active duty of Indonesia. Please will you describe war reserves of Indonesia?

Actually, the armor of the T-34 is about double than in the PT-76. Also a 76mm gun.
There are lots of modern armored vehicles that have much less armor than the 45mm armor of the T-34.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Why battleship is relic? Did Baath party felt differently when they received Tomahawk from USS Missouri ?


T-34 in Indian war reserves?

Only tanks that are in Indian war reserves are T-55 and Vickers. Also China, Pakistan and many other country also use Type 59 in active duty, that are not even in war reserves.


Also reserves means for worst case scenario.

They are not repaired constantly.

Because long range engagements has been replaced by missiles making the large guns from a battleship obsolete.

False equivalencies a tank like the T-55 still have some uses left because of continuous upgrade.

They also takes up storage spaces for

bro I laugh at delusional people. they never know winning a war is more than counting men and military hardware.
otherwise we never have a chance winning against enemies that are mulitple bigger than our army. the Mongols once established a vast empire than spans half of Asia and Europe. their army hordes were rolling over countries and continents, subjugating even China empire, doing endless massacres on populace that dared to resist. But against Vietnam, the mongol armies suffered a total blow. they tried 3 times, all ended as military disaster for them.

the decisive battle of banh dang river under the command of tran hung dao

Actually War is no longer considered to be an Art form its Science.

(P) Policy is a superset of (W) War which is equal to the maximum (F) Force of opponent (A) A divided by the maximum (F) Force of opponent (B) B plus (f) “blind natural force” multiplied by (c) chance.
where
(F) Force is equal to (A) Attack minus (D) Defense minus (E) Emotion or kindness, all multiplied by (h) human factors and divided by the (p) political objective.
and
(f) “blind natural Force” is equal to violence multiplied by hatred multiplied by enmity.

Bow down to Clausewitz: http://www.clausewitz.com/readings/Echevarria/APSTRAT1.htm

No kidding. Since when the Vietnamese army needs your opinion to decide what to keep in reserve?
They have the space, the labor for maintenance is cheap and they want to keep it in reserve. So what is your problem with that?

You don't have anything better to talk about?

So you don't want valid criticism. You just want a forum to be a self-congratulatory echo chamber is that it?

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

Exactly life & death. Of which the crewmen will get the later if pushed into a possible conflict. Speaking of life & death. A weapon have a service life of which the T-34 clearly passed waaayyy beyond it.

Also T-55 are a different case because there's actually still a use 4 them thanks to continous upgrade. But there are limit on how you can upgrade a vehicle hence why the need 4 replacement.

Another case is the M113 carrier despite being old it will not be replaced anytime soon. Cannot say the same to viet T-34s.

clearly you have no idea of the subject, those t34 are war reserves and probably will never see active combat, a well camouflaged t34 is 10 times deadlier than bare infantryman. you can think of it as a nimble bunker, given the nature of dense and lush landscape of vietnam those t34 can be a huge headache.

 

[Carlosa]

So you don't want valid criticism. You just want a forum to be a self-congratulatory echo chamber is that it?

The problem is, this is not valid criticism, this is a royal waste of time, at least pick a better subject.

clearly you have no idea of the subject, those t34 are war reserves and probably will never see active combat, a well camouflaged t34 is 10 times deadlier than bare infantryman. you can think of it as a nimble bunker, given the nature of dense and lush landscape of vietnam those t34 can be a huge headache.

Thank you, I've tried to explain that to this guy, but he just doesn't get it. And yes, he has absolutely no idea about the subject.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

The problem is, this is not valid criticism, this is a royal waste of time, at least pick a better subject.

So talking about a T-34 in goddamn 2016 is not valid criticism. I do wonder what makes a valid criticism according to you?

How about the monkey model T-90 that Vietnam will buy seems apropos if we talking about the subject of tanks.

 

[Carlosa]

So talking about a T-34 in goddamn 2016 is not valid criticism. I do wonder what makes a valid criticism according to you?

How about the monkey model T-90 that Vietnam will buy seems apropos if we talking about the subject of tanks.

Talking about the T-90 would be more interesting, but talking about why Vietnam wants to keep T-34s in storage is a waste of time.

By the way, have anything to say about the value of a camouflaged T-34 in combat? 2 people already mentioned that.