Vietnam Defence Forum

[jhungary]

The 125mm far reaching canon of T90 can destroy both Abraham and Leopard before they can come close to fire their shells. Worse, the 120mm cannon can hardly defeat T90 armor hence the Germans now develop a new generation tank with 130mm cannon.

View attachment 429691

Actually, having a bigger Bore does not translate to having a longer range, range is controlled by powder inside the round vs how large the Projectile is. Another factor is the Calibre (L/XX) the longer the gun calibre is, the more energy you can preserve. Also how the main gun constructed is an issue, automatic reloading usually mean the ejector port is open or semi-open (because you don't need to open the breech and insert a round ie Automatic) then it will bleed out some of the energy from the gun, which mean it have lower initial velocity.)

Depending on the weight, of the main gun, if you are talking about older version or watered down version of T-90, then the gun it uses is inferior to the M1 Abrams, but if you are talking about upgraded T-90M (With 2A-82-1M gun instead of the old 2A46) then it may be of similar range to Abrams. If I remember both 2A-82 (48 Cal) on a T-14 and new M256 L55 (55 Cal) have similar range at around 5000 to 5500 meters, but older 2A46 only have 3000-4000 meters range. The reason why the gun on T-14 have longer range with the same calibre and bore diameter is because of the way T-14 Design, it have an unmanned turret which mean the whole thing is literally sealed off and even if the ejector is open, it won't affect the gun much as the whole gun port is sealed.

 

[Nike]

May having the longer range gun is not always can be translated into actual first shot capability. You need a very good stabilyzed system, good optical tracking sight and fire control system and good overall situational awareness system to out do your opponents.

Catherine FCS versus EMES 15 ....

 

[jhungary]

May having the longer range gun is not always can be translated into actual first shot capability. You need a very good stabilyzed system, good optical tracking sight and fire control system and good overall situational awareness system to out do your opponents.

Catherine FCS versus EMES 15 ....

actually, the most important factor is the suspension and torsion of the chassis, don't really matter if you have world class optics, if your tank cannot stabilise itself good when you are firing that big gun, you are going to mess up your shot.

And most people don't know that or don't care about that unless you served as a tanker before.

 

[Viet]

Actually, having a bigger Bore does not translate to having a longer range, range is controlled by powder inside the round vs how large the Projectile is. Another factor is the Calibre (L/XX) the longer the gun calibre is, the more energy you can preserve. Also how the main gun constructed is an issue, automatic reloading usually mean the ejector port is open or semi-open (because you don't need to open the breech and insert a round ie Automatic) then it will bleed out some of the energy from the gun, which mean it have lower initial velocity.)

Depending on the weight, of the main gun, if you are talking about older version or watered down version of T-90, then the gun it uses is inferior to the M1 Abrams, but if you are talking about upgraded T-90M (With 2A-82-1M gun instead of the old 2A46) then it may be of similar range to Abrams. If I remember both 2A-82 (48 Cal) on a T-14 and new M256 L55 (55 Cal) have similar range at around 5000 to 5500 meters, but older 2A46 only have 3000-4000 meters range. The reason why the gun on T-14 have longer range with the same calibre and bore diameter is because of the way T-14 Design, it have an unmanned turret which mean the whole thing is literally sealed off and even if the ejector is open, it won't affect the gun much as the whole gun port is sealed.

True, laws of physics. But right now the german Panzer army equipped by Leopard 2 with 120mm cannon would go as loser from the battlefield because the present tank ammunition fitted by wolfram core don't have enough kinetic energy when firing to destroy the newest developed armor of T90. the new tank probably called Leopard 3 with 130mm gun would come in 2030.

https://de.sputniknews.com/amp/zeitungen/20150428302103674/

 

[Nike]

True, laws of physics. But right now the german Panzer army equipped by Leopard 2 with 120mm cannon would go as loser from the battlefield because the present tank ammunition fitted by wolfram core don't have enough kinetic energy when firing to destroy the newest developed armor of T90. the new tank probably called Leopard 3 with 130mm gun would come in 2030.

https://de.sputniknews.com/amp/zeitungen/20150428302103674/

View attachment 429771

De sputnik news.... Ze. I though you would suggest a better sources

 

[Viet]

De sputnik news.... Ze. I though you would suggest a better sources

Read the article sis mado. Sputnik cites sources from German media which cites sources from the German armed forces.

https://amp.focus.de/politik/muniti...n-russische-panzer-chancenlos_id_4639530.html

 

[Viet]

VN coast guard vessel visits Hawaii.

 

[Viet]

Scott Swift, the commander of the US Pacific Fleet on a visit to Vietnam. the man, who says he will nuke China next week if Donald Trump orders him to do so. Probably on his personal wish, he visits Bach Dang, a small arm of the Red River, and pays tribute for those who fell in the war. The place had seen the all decisive sea battle of 938. 1079 years ago, under the command of Ngô Quyền the Vietnamese Navy annihilated the chinese invasion fleet and led Vietnam into independence.

battle of Bach Dang of 938

 

[Viva_Viet]

Any naval ship worth its weight in salt can strike from a range those artillery cannot reach. I really do not see the point of having those artillery pieces as coastal defense.

.

artillery is for Landing craft and small ships

 

[TenLua]

artillery is for Landing craft and small ships

I figure as much but it's why modern naval ships have guided missiles. This isn't world war 2 where soldiers storm the beach while machine guns and artillery shoot at them. Any general who expose his men to that kind of needless danger needs to be hang.

 

[Carlosa]

I figure as much but it's why modern naval ships have guided missiles. This isn't world war 2 where soldiers storm the beach while machine guns and artillery shoot at them. Any general who expose his men to that kind of needless danger needs to be hang.

Yes, but don't forget that most ships don't have sea to land missiles (usually destroyers have them such as AEGIS destroyers with their Tomahawk missiles), they have anti ship missiles, so their main weapon against land targets is their onboard gun and as such, those land artillery pieces which seem to be 152mm are actually more powerful than the gun ships which are usually 76mm (123mm in case of destroyers). those land artillery pieces would do effective counter battery fire against the ships and against landing craft. That's why VN deploys a lot of artillery in the larger islands.

 

[TenLua]

Yes, but don't forget that most ships don't have sea to land missiles (usually destroyers have them such as AEGIS destroyers with their Tomahawk missiles), they have anti ship missiles, so their main weapon against land targets is their onboard gun and as such, those land artillery pieces which seem to be 152mm are actually more powerful than the gun ships which are usually 76mm (123mm in case of destroyers). those land artillery pieces would do effective counter battery fire against the ships and against landing craft. That's why VN deploys a lot of artillery in the larger islands.

I see your point.

Does type-055/052 have land attack cruise missiles?

 

[Viet]

I figure as much but it's why modern naval ships have guided missiles. This isn't world war 2 where soldiers storm the beach while machine guns and artillery shoot at them. Any general who expose his men to that kind of needless danger needs to be hang.

What are other options? VN army isn't rich. We can expect before landing the enemy will bombard the beach. Navy will be the first line of defense, but the Marines as second and last line of defense will have to use every means to stop approaching landing crafts. Scenario won't differ much from WW 2.

 

[Carlosa]

I see your point.

Does type-055/052 have land attack cruise missiles?

You bet it does, it has a ton of missiles, particularly the type 55.

The thing is, land artillery will push an attacking naval force to stay out of the range of the artillery unless they want to take that risk. Of course a very strong attacking naval force will have the means of destroying that land artillery (plus air attacks, etc).

So in practice, that land artillery gets used mainly against landing craft.

If the attacking force is composed of smaller ships (no destroyers), the land based artillery definitely plays an important role. Go one step further and deploy long range guided rockets as VN has done and you have a much more powerful deterrent.

What are other options? VN army isn't rich. We can expect before landing the enemy will bombard the beach. Navy will be the first line of defense, but the Marines as second and last line of defense will have to use every means to stop approaching landing crafts. Scenario won't differ much from WW 2.

WW 2 style beach landings continue to be a typical scenario and that's why the US marines continue to train on that. The landing vehicles are much better now and the supporting weapons are also better. Can also combine the amphibious assault with air assault by helicopters, but the basics of the game are still the same.

 

[Viet]

Landing of US Marines at Da Nang beach in 1965

Recently a report. The Vietnam war is the second most popular theme after the US civil war in US media, politics and in the public. Some 50 films were made with VN war theme. Documentary films not included in the numbers. Not to mention books, annual events and memorials across America. One can assume the US Americans can't move on although the war ends long ago.