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The Nguyen dynasty did make the army weaker overtime. Back to the Quang Trung era, Vietnamese troops were well-armed with rifles/muskets and howitzers, well-trained and the navy could be on par with some European countries.

Things went down hill since most of the Nguyen kings were to passive and afraid to fight, while the one that had the will to fight was isolated and deported by the French.

So the Nguyen kings ruined it for everyone?

while the western powers as England, Germany and France made great advances in the military after the years of industrial revolution, Vietnam was virtually stuck in the darkness. Backwardness. We had a large number of warships and artillery but our technology, firepower and tactics lagged light years behind the French.

So the puppet king had no choice but to be a puppet. He knows he can't win a war, and so he submit. sounds logical to me.

Mod edit - removed off-topic material.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
...Parade 2/9/2015.

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TPP is dead, so you have a find out a solution to sort out your economic woe.

China is the solution, embrace China you will get the candy.

What's the plan to buy all those expensive toys from Russia? It won't make any difference against China. So the best solution is to complement China's SCS strategy. You can keep the remaining reefs with some extra gifts from China.

FDI being as high as it is, I doubt you understand economics. Given, some of that is coming from China.

The Chinese military industrial complex have been receiving a lot of attention in the last decade. The type-055 looks promising, but they're just toys that will change nothing. Why? Because Viet Nam have enough guns and ammo now; define necessity.
 
FDI being as high as it is, I doubt you understand economics. Given, some of that is coming from China.

The Chinese military industrial complex have been receiving a lot of attention in the last decade. The type-055 looks promising, but they're just toys that will change nothing. Why? Because Viet Nam have enough guns and ammo now; define necessity.

Apple to Orange, the Type 055 and Type 095 are gigantic 12,000+ tonnes leviathans positioned at the top of the food chain in the navy world. While those 2,000 tonnes corvettes and non-AIP diesel subs that you keep buying from Russia are enough to fend off your ASEAN neighbors, but against China is simply another story.
 
And they don't depend on the alliance as the way to reduce their defence budget.

India and Vietnam: Time for Trilaterals With the US and Japan
http://thediplomat.com/2016/09/india-and-vietnam-time-for-trilaterals-with-the-us-and-japan/

During Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Vietnam, the bilateral relationship between the two countries needs to be elevated to a comprehensive strategic partnership. The evolving security dynamic in the Indo-Pacific region mandates that both countries should collaborate with greater intensity. Furthermore, while substantive attention needs to be focused on bilateral defense and economic cooperation, the need for expanded partnerships or minilaterals should be given serious consideration by India and Vietnam.

Currently, India is involved in trilateral frameworks such as the U.S.-India-Japan Ministerial Trilateral and India-Japan-Australia trilateral at the official level. It should be noted that in the minilateral frameworks involving India, Japan, and the United States, none of the Southeast Asian countries have been represented. Minilateral frameworks involving India and Vietnam look plausible as there are growing convergences in the regional approaches of both the countries.

At the bilateral level, over the decades, India and Vietnam have shared similar views and interests on the global stage. Immediately after independence, both countries worked for decolonization and shared similar conceptions of Asian Solidarity. Today, both countries are interested in a multipolar Asia. This shared interest in multipolarity was reflected in the joint statement issued during the visit Vietnam’s then prime minister, Nguyen Tan Dung, to Delhi in October 2014. The statement referred to “the necessity of maintaining peace in Asia” and called for continued coordination in regional and international fora. Further, Vietnam has consistently supported India’s quest for membership in the United Nations Security Council. There is also a significant commonality in the regional approaches of India and Vietnam specifically with reference to the policies toward the United States and Japan.

India-Japan relations witnessed significant improvements in the recent past. In 2014, Japan promised to invest $35 billion in India over the next five years and in 2015 a Make in India Special Finance Facility with $12 billion was also initiated. Japan is now a regular participant in the Malabar exercises with India and the United States. India is negotiating with Japan to procure US-2 amphibious aircraft from Japan, and reports suggest that this cooperation may take place under the Make in India initiative.

Similarly, Vietnam has been engaging with Japan under the rubric of “multilateralization and diversification” of its foreign relations. Japan is Vietnam’s biggest bilateral donor, a large trading partner, and the third largest foreign investor in Vietnam. In 2014, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Vietnam’s then-President Truong Tan Sang upgraded the bilateral relationship to an “Extensive Strategic Partnership for Peace and Prosperity in Asia.” Japan has provided six vessels to Vietnam to boost maritime security and Japan’s Self Defense Forces recently docked at Vietnam’s Cam Ranh naval base. Japan is planning to increase the number of defense attaches in Vietnam to facilitate greater cooperation in the security realm between the two countries.

India, Vietnam, and the United States

Given the prolonged war that ended in 1975, Vietnam’s relations with the United States have witnessed a remarkable turnaround. President Bill Clinton and President George W. Bush each visited Vietnam (in 2000 and 2006, respectively). More recently, in 2016, current President Barack Obama visited Vietnam and completely lifted the arms embargo, enabling Vietnam to purchase military equipment such as drones, radars, and P-3 Orion surveillance aircraft from the United States. While there is growing discussion on whether the United States should be provided access to Cam Ranh naval base, it should be noted that access is different from establishment of a foreign military base, which Vietnam may not entertain. Further, Vietnam has signed up to participate in the U.S.-led Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). Vietnam’s participation in the TPP is based on the premise that the benefits, especially enhanced access for its textile exports, far outweigh the costs associated with this high-standard regional framework.

Similarly, in the recent past, India-U.S. relations have been on an upswing, and there is growing strategic convergence between the two countries. India-U.S. defense trade, which was near zero in 2005, today stands at approximately $10 billion. The countries recently concluded a modified logistic support agreement and have articulated a joint vision for the Indo-Pacific region. India and the United States consider each other as “closest partners” in the realm of defense cooperation.

These strategic convergences make a strong case for India-Vietnam-Japan and India-Vietnam-U.S. trilaterals. Further, the power dynamic in the Asia-Pacific region should not be merely a consequence of machinations of the big powers. India, Japan, and Vietnam should become active players in shaping the power politics in the region and trilaterals are an important platform to effect such changes.

Like India, Vietnam is uncomfortable with military alliances and allowing foreign military powers to operate bases in its territory. These trilateral partnerships are not alliances, but they constitute frameworks of cooperation for enhancing domestic capacities in the realm of economy and defense preparedness. Therefore, they merit serious consideration.

Sanjay Pulipaka works as a Senior Consultant at the Indian Council for Research on International Economic Relations (ICRIER), New Delhi. The views expressed here are personal.
 
During the trip to US in 2013
Bac @gambit : can you help to talk about the equipments introduced to Vietnam by US.
Stryker vehicle and C17?

What could Vietnam buy from US?

In 2013 trip to US, Gen. Ty showed that he want cargo plane that could single handle an army company when he was on board a C-17
 
So which topic do you consider as “off-topic”? Can you tell us before hand? Because previously many Viet members got warned or banned for “off-topic” posts that we don’t think warranted a ban or warning at all.

And since it looks like you are quite heavy-handed in modding, can you tell us first what you consider as “off-topic”?
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For this thread, please stick to "Vietnam Military News & Discussion."

Wishing all Vietnamese members, "Happy National Day."
 
Happy Independence Day :yahoo::yahoo:

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Happy Independence Day Vietnam :cheers:

@ChineseTiger1986 , @TenLua , @kecho ,

Reminder that this is a thread on Vietnam military affairs.

Kindly stay away from discussing anything else.

Going forward, I will delete off topic posts.

My Goodness !!! What is happening in PDF? Strict supervision from a mod? Wow, this was unheard off here. Our chinese friends are going to feel very depressed. It seems like they will not be able to raid and disrupt the thread anymore. :yahoo::victory::yahoo:
 
So the Nguyen kings ruined it for everyone?

So the puppet king had no choice but to be a puppet. He knows he can't win a war, and so he submit. sounds logical to me.

Mod edit - removed off-topic material.
if one recounts the events back in those days, the Nguyen had theoretically a chance to stop the french invasion. for thousands of year in our history, in times of crisis, usually the ruler calls all men to the army, moblizes all country resources. but the Nguyen lost quickly the fighting spirit amid a series of defeats not only because of french far superior armed forces, but witnessing the great advances of the british made in China. if the chinese had no chance, how could Vietnam have a chance against France. back in the days, the french had the most capable land army in the world. the french navy stood just behind the might british navy. the french armies once conquered Europe, advancing as far as Moscow.

we had gunpowder weapons since the Le dynasty in the 14 century, with rifles and artillery. with hundred of warships at sea. but when the french launched invasion, we were backward agra country, while France a industrial giant. Look at the warships what Vietnam had

1024px-ThuyenchienDaiViet2.JPG



1024px-T%C3%A0u_chi%E1%BA%BFn_trong_tr%E1%BA%ADn_Xo%C3%A0i_M%C3%BAt.JPG




comparing to the french navy
1024px-Le_Terrible%2C_construit_%C3%A0_Toulon_en_1780.jpg




french warships during the invasion campaign in the south of Vietnam (Saigon)
Prise_de_Saigon_18_Fevrier_1859_Antoine_Morel-Fatio.jpg
 
if one recounts the events back in those days, the Nguyen had theoretically a chance to stop the french invasion. for thousands of year in our history, in times of crisis, usually the ruler calls all men to the army, moblizes all country resources. but the Nguyen lost quickly the fighting spirit amid a series of defeats not only because of french far superior armed forces, but witnessing the great advances of the british made in China. if the chinese had no chance, how could Vietnam have a chance against France. back in the days, the french had the most capable land army in the world. the french navy stood just behind the might british navy. the french armies once conquered Europe, advancing as far as Moscow.

we had gunpowder weapons since the Le dynasty in the 14 century, with rifles and artillery. with hundred of warships at sea. but when the french launched invasion, we were backward agra country, while France a industrial giant. Look at the warships what Vietnam had

1024px-ThuyenchienDaiViet2.JPG



1024px-T%C3%A0u_chi%E1%BA%BFn_trong_tr%E1%BA%ADn_Xo%C3%A0i_M%C3%BAt.JPG




comparing to the french navy
1024px-Le_Terrible%2C_construit_%C3%A0_Toulon_en_1780.jpg




french warships during the invasion campaign in the south of Vietnam (Saigon)
Prise_de_Saigon_18_Fevrier_1859_Antoine_Morel-Fatio.jpg
In Tay Son era, Quang Trung has strong naval fleet, " Tây Sơn đại hạm " Tay Son big ship with 80 cannons in one ship, 80 years later, Nguyen reign hadn't one capable ship to fight
 
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