Vietnam Defence Forum

[Viet]

How do you think the Kilos can launch the Kalibir missiles?

The missile is in a canister; the canister goes to the surface and that's when the missile fires from the canister, the missiles never touches the water.

the Kilo fires kalibr through torpedo tubes. but I though as brahmos is much bigger and heavier than kalibr, we need VLS to fire the brahmos from the sub when submerged.

 

[Carlosa]

the Kilo fires kalibr through torpedo tubes. but I though as brahmos is much bigger and heavier than kalibr, we need VLS to fire the brahmos from the sub when submerged.

No man, Brahmos and kalibr are in the same size / weight category. They also use the same VLS tubes when launched from ships (the UKSK VLS system).

 

[Viet]

No man, Brahmos and kalibr are in the same size / weight category. They also use the same VLS tubes when launched from ships (the UKSK VLS system).

Kalibr flies subsonic nearly during the entire route and accelerates to supersonic Mach 3 when coming close to target. Final approach. Brahmos is different. The missile flies supersonic Mach 3 during the entire route. I would assume Brahmos is heavier and bigger because of more fuel consumption. More speed means more fuel is required. Brahmos gives enemy defense less reaction time.

How can both missiles be in the same class, given the same range of 300 km? Or do I miss something?

 

[Carlosa]

Kalibr flies subsonic nearly during the entire route and accelerates to supersonic Mach 3 when coming close to target. Final approach. Brahmos is different. The missile flies supersonic Mach 3 during the entire route. I would assume Brahmos is heavier and bigger because of more fuel consumption. More speed means more fuel is required. Brahmos gives enemy defense less reaction time.

How can both missiles be in the same class, given the same range of 300 km? Or do I miss something?

No man, they really are in the same size / weight category, they are both big and heavy, Brahmos is a little bit heavier, the size difference is really small.

3M-54E Club-S, 8.2 m, diameter: 0.533 m, 2300 kg, final stage is 2.9 mach, warhead is 200 kg, this is the submarine launched anti-shipping variant (for export)
Brahmos: 8.4m, diameter: 0.6 m, 3,000 kg, warhead is 200 kg,

The 300 km range is not real, that's software limited for exports only. When you are seeing that both Brahmos and Kalibr have the same range of 300 km, you are just looking at the export version of both missiles which is in both cases limited to 300 km.

Brahmos has no less than 500 km range and the Kalibr can go up to 2500 km for the long range version that Russia used in Syria, so the range is all very relative, there are quite a few versions of the Kalibr. There is one version of the Kalibr (3M54T) that is even bigger than Brahmos at 8.9 m.

Russian subs use the land attack Kalibr 3M-14/3M-14T: 2500 km range, 8.9 m, so right there you can see the difference.

 

[Viet]

Carlosa

Ok ok good info.

Hopefully we will close some nice warship deals with India as well. With Brahmos on them.

 

[Carlosa]

Carlosa

Ok ok good info.

Hopefully we will close some nice warship deals with India as well. With Brahmos on them.

I'd like to see that. That's why we had the other thread about the Kamorta ships for Vietnam, but it might not be what is being planned according to some people.

 

[William Hung]

Does India possess all the source code for the Brahmos/Brahmos-mini? Do they have the know-how to integrate them to any system they want without Russian assistance?

If yes, then that may give some clue what the anti-shipping/land-attack missiles for the F/A-18V might be.

If no, then the missiles for F/A-18 is still a mystery.

 

[Carlosa]

Does India possess all the source code for the Brahmos/Brahmos-mini? Do they have the know-how to integrate them to any system they want without Russian assistance?

If yes, then that may give some clue what the anti-shipping/land-attack missiles for the F/A-18V might be.

If no, then the missiles for F/A-18 is still a mystery.

If I remember correctly, no, India was complaining about not having the source code, at least not for all the systems / subsystems even that India does develop some of the software for Brahmos. Need to confirm with the Indian members.

India will use Python 5 and Derby-ER for the Tejas by the way, better combo than Russian missiles.

Does India possess all the source code for the Brahmos/Brahmos-mini? Do they have the know-how to integrate them to any system they want without Russian assistance?

If yes, then that may give some clue what the anti-shipping/land-attack missiles for the F/A-18V might be.

If no, then the missiles for F/A-18 is still a mystery.

Brahmos-mini WILL START development in a few years, so this will be a long wait.

 

[Carlosa]

The Modi government has cleared sale of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile to Vietnam.

To take on China's increasing hegemony in Asia, the Modi government has cleared sale of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile to Vietnam.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar begins a five-day visit to Singapore and Vietnam from today. The main highlight of the visit would be talks on sale of BrahMos missiles to Vietnam.

Vietnam had been eyeing the missile for over five years now but the UPA government had been reluctant to give the nod fearing Chinese objections.

The BrahMos Diaries

BrahMos is a supersonic anti-ship missile, developed jointly by New Delhi and Moscow.

It is considered one of the most effective and lethal anti-ship missiles in any nation's inventory, almost entirely due to its speed

While the current BrahMos launch vehicles are surface and aircraft based, India is testing a submarine-launch version that could conceivably be used in Vietnam's Kilo-class submarines

Highly placed defence sources said both PM Narendra Modi and Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar were in favour of exporting the missile system to Vietnam

Beijing has expressed reservations against any plans by New Delhi to supply weapons to Vietnam

China and Vietnam are already locked in a tense face-off over maritime boundaries in the South China Sea

Praveen Pathak, spokesman for BrahMos Aerospace, told India Today: "We expect friendly nations-with whom neither India nor Russia have a conflict - to show an interest in buying these missiles."

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/india-china-bramos-missiles-modi-government-vietnam/1/683455.html

 

[Viet]

some reports speculate India not only wants to offer brahmos cruise missile but also patrol aircraft, fighter jet, attack helicopter and air defence system. we will see.

 

[Nike]

China Media : Vietnam is Considering the Purchase of 28 T-90MS Modern Tanks from Russia

04 Juni 2016

T-90MS main battle tanks (photo : russarmy)
Online media Sina (China) recently reported that the People's Army of Vietnam is considering the purchase and equipping of the Russian T-90MS, the original plan was to buy 28 units. According to the current demand, the armored forces Vietnam needs at least 200 new tanks.
Sina network that Vietnam Military Army for years not focused on modernization. This due to the fact that Vietnam should focus equip the navy and air force, while budget difficulties. So towards the army is not strong investment.
Therefore, the force increase - armored Vietnam until the present time mainly use the T-54/55 and T-62 is considered outdated in the world. Not only that, the Vietnam tank backward when compared to neighboring countries such as Thailand - the country has imported tanks T-84-T Oplot of Ukraine, China, it has equipped the Type 99 tank is considered the world's leading modern.
To partially offset gaps in the armored forces, Vietnam has a solution to upgrade a number of tanks T-54/55. But still can not meet the requirements of modern warfare.
In the early 2000s, Vietnam is said to have intention to buy 150 tanks T-72M1 - export version of the T-72 for the Eastern European countries, no armor ERA, downgraded fire control system. However, this plan did not succeed.
Some information says that Vietnam will equip T-90MS tanks to units stationed in the northern region.
T-90MS is the upgraded version of modernization on the basis of T-90S tanks for export. Compared to the old T-90S, T-90MS is equipped with a more powerful engine with a capacity of up to 1,130 horsepower, price controls equipped automatic weapons mounted guns UDP 7,62mm T05BV-1, equipped with reactive armor eRA explosive new type of electronic system and more modern. In particular, the ammunition in the vehicle was redesigned to increase survival for crews if blasting enemy bullet inside.
(DatViet)

even a simple peasants armed with RPG-7's can bring havoc into today Vietnamese armored column

 

[yugocrosrb95]

@Viet

Kilo class submarines are formidable, but you can't depend on it with few numbers, your country needs smaller submarines too for survivability.

My country is capable of producing 800 ton submarines and there are design of 1000 plus tons which were not made due to high risk of getting stuck on coast due to many islands...

 

[Viet]

@Viet

Kilo class submarines are formidable, but you can't depend on it with few numbers, your country needs smaller submarines too for survivability.

My country is capable of producing 800 ton submarines and there are design of 1000 plus tons which were not made due to high risk of getting stuck on coast due to many islands...

sounds good.

But there is only a little problem. Croatia is as known to Vietnam as the people of Maori. A group of people in Polynesia. You know what? should Zagreb politicians suddenly develop an own version of 'pivot to Asia', you are welcome to take the world map and find out where Vietnam lies. Anyway at least we can look at the bright side: since the NATO big brother the United States ends arms embargo, Croatia should have a free hand in exporting defence technology.

even a simple peasants armed with RPG-7's can bring havoc into today Vietnamese armored column

Who wants to attack our tank column with RPG?

I assume you mean the PLA. Do you think the Chinese with the today and future military power can scare Vietnam? China's GDP at the height of the Ming reached one third of the world's GDP. Their organized armed forces with fire arms were second to none in the 15 century. They were the undisputed power in Asia. But in the war against Vietnam, they suffered a total blow. Our navy is weak, but unterestimating our land army is a mistake.

 

[Nike]

sounds good.

But there is only a little problem. Croatia is as known to Vietnam as the people of Maori. A group of people in Polynesia. You know what? should Zagreb politicians suddenly develop an own version of 'pivot to Asia', you are welcome to take the world map and find out where Vietnam lies. Anyway at least we can look at the bright side: since the NATO big brother the United States ends arms embargo, Croatia should have a free hand in exporting defence technology.


Who wants to attack our tank column with RPG?

I assume you mean the PLA. Do you think the Chinese with the today and future military power can scare Vietnam? China's GDP at the height of the Ming reached one third of the world's GDP. Their organized armed forces with fire arms were second to none in the 15 century. They were the undisputed power in Asia. But in the war against Vietnam, they suffered a total blow. Our navy is weak, but unterestimating our land army is a mistake.

LoL, your army today is relic of Vietnam War era, nothing is good about that

Your armor is comprised from BMP-1 series, T-54/55 and your armored vehicle is nothing but actually a steel plate attached on car engines. Nothing good and is very weak

Just look at your immediate neighbor inventory like Thailand, Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia most of them had been equipped with the lates armor technology and advanced Anti Tank weaponry, Vietnam Army even doesn't sport ATGM in large number like ISIS or Hezbollah, and that's very hillarious. Not to mention, your capability right now to engage modern warfare is very limited with shortage of funds unlike your previous experiences against France and USA when you got money, hardware and military expertise from Communist Bloc (mainly Soviet, PRC, Cuba, North Korea and other).

 

[Viet]

LoL, your army today is relic of Vietnam War era, nothing is good about that

Your armor is comprised from BMP-1 series, T-54/55 and your armored vehicle is nothing but actually a steel plate attached on car engines. Nothing good and is very weak

Just look at your immediate neighbor inventory like Thailand, Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia most of them had been equipped with the lates armor technology and advanced Anti Tank weaponry, Vietnam Army even doesn't sport ATGM in large number like ISIS or Hezbollah, and that's very hillarious. Not to mention, your capability right now to engage modern warfare is very limited with shortage of funds unlike your previous experiences against France and USA when you got money, hardware and military expertise from Communist Bloc (mainly Soviet, PRC, Cuba, North Korea and other).

I'm shocked by your analyse, that reveals how poor today our army is. It seems we are lost. I also appreciate your insights on how mighty our neighbors are, from Indonesia to Thailand to Singapore. Please feel free if you want to donate. We take everything. One thing I want to mention here, before leaving. in case you haven't noticed, until recently in the 1990s Vietnam was classified as 'dirty poor', but now is just as 'poor'. Everything was destroyed in wars. So it will take some time to recover, a lot of waters will flow down the Red river, until we escape poverty.

By then, we would have funds for new battle tanks. Sad.

Yes I know the eastern bloc had collapsed, also, the Soviet Union. Otherwise I guess a certain country would think 10 times before advancing any policy of aggression.