Vietnam Defence Forum

[Carlosa]

When Vietnam get Grad BM-21, they asked Soviet Union to design the Grad-P
when Vietnam learn about Aegis Ashore and can touch them, they would ask US to break it apart and provide the air platform with suitable radar to guide any single SM-6 to target, the launcher platform must have mobile capability.

Yeah, that makes sense. The key to AEGIS ASHORE is the X band radar (very long range radar), that's what provides the early warning of incoming ballistic missiles so that the battery can launch interceptor missiles on time. THAADS also uses the same radar. The Israelis also bought the same radar for their Arrow 3 system.

 

[BoQ77]

Yeah, that makes sense. The key to AEGIS ASHORE is the X band radar (very long range radar), that's what provides the early warning of incoming ballistic missiles so that the battery can launch interceptor missiles on time. THAADS also uses the same radar. The Israelis also bought the same radar for their Arrow 3 system.

The US has already run tests with the SM missile and the F-35 fighter-bomber, in which an SM missile has been fired from a ship but with no target identified. An F-35 in flight took control of the missile in midair, and then as the missile proceeded downrange, handed control of that missile to another F-35. Thus you could imagine a small, hardened launcher on an island popping up a missile and flinging it way into China, where it gets vectored on to target by a stealthy F-35.

The ability of the SM-6 to perform many roles — shooting down airborne targets, hitting ships, attacking deep inland, and hitting ballistic missiles — means that it could be the perfect way to turn that first island chain into a major headache for Chinese military planners.

 

[William Hung]

Well, the F-16s for Indonesia were 31 million per plane, 750 million for 24 planes, so that's very cheap.

The key here is what avionics are included in those F-18s.
SU-34 is a fighter bomber, very good as a bomber, but I'm not aware of an ECM version of it. The Russians have a ECM version of the SU-24 (which was used against the Donald Cook in the black sea). It would make sense to have a version of the SU-34 set up that way in the future.

If USA releases the right tech for both versions of the F-18, then that's indeed a game changer in SCS.

Yeah 750 million for 24 planes and it includes spares, logistics support, etc, its quite a deal. I am only guessing the VN is only interested in similar version.

As for the Su-34, I have read that it has quite a strong EW suite and supposedly had proven itself in the Georgia conflict. The main problem I think is that China may acquire them in the future (like how they could purchase the Su-35) and I think they are smart enough to analyse its electronic warfare suite.

 

[Aqsuperman]

The idea right now is not about the money. Its about our relation. Only close allies of the US can get many sophiscated anti-aircraft and radar technology. In some case even only on the condition that their "adviser" will be deployed along with it (which will not suit us very well). Best case scenarios in the foreseeable future will be a limited purchase in transportation aircraft and if lucky will be ASW equipments. Some moderate update for the ground force can also be expected, especially with the US-made weapon. Beyond that is a no-go right now. Our "human right issue" will never ever suit the level of the US that allow fighter jet and high perfomace missiles sales so dont bother guessing at the moment. We can hope for other countries with simliar lind of developed technology though. UAV is also bright these kind of days.

Checking out a UAV

 

[William Hung]

The idea right now is not about the money. Its about our relation. Only close allies of the US can get many sophiscated anti-aircraft and radar technology. In some case even only on the condition that their "adviser" will be deployed along with it (which will not suit us very well). Best case scenarios in the foreseeable future will be a limited purchase in transportation aircraft and if lucky will be ASW equipments. Some moderate update for the ground force can also be expected, especially with the US-made weapon. Beyond that is a no-go right now. Our "human right issue" will never ever suit the level of the US that allow fighter jet and high perfomace missiles sales so dont bother guessing at the moment. We can hope for other countries with simliar lind of developed technology though. UAV is also bright these kind of days.

Checking out a UAV

US defense companies already sending their proposals and interests, which include fighters and ASW platforms.

One western defense source already told a press that a US defense company could make a “big announcement” sometime this year. Will find that article when I’m on my laptop.

 

[Carlosa]

Yeah 750 million for 24 planes and it includes spares, logistics support, etc, its quite a deal. I am only guessing the VN is only interested in similar version.

As for the Su-34, I have read that it has quite a strong EW suite and supposedly had proven itself in the Georgia conflict. The main problem I think is that China may acquire them in the future (like how they could purchase the Su-35) and I think they are smart enough to analyse its electronic warfare suite.

As I understand the SU-34 uses ECM pods, which are quite good, but is not quite like a ECM dedicated plane such as the Growler, so if the Growler variant that goes to VN happens to be quite good, then VN will have the advantage.

Myself, I'm a bit surprised that USA is willing to go as far as supplying F-18s and Growlers to VN. That tells me that there is a lot going on that we don't know anything about. And for VN to also go so far knowing that there will be a chinese response, it must mean that they have very good reasons to go in that direction, like maybe the fact that either Russia is not willing to sell some hardware or just the fact that they sell everything to China anyway and VN is forced to go in a different direction. This is all really very significant.

 

[Jason Zhao]

Containment will burn China from inside out.

 

[William Hung]

As I understand the SU-34 uses ECM pods, which are quite good, but is not quite like a ECM dedicated plane such as the Prowler, so if the Prowler variant that goes to VN happens to be quite good, then VN will have the advantage.

Myself, I'm a bit surprised that USA is willing to go as far as supplying F-18s and Prowlers to VN. That tells me that there is a lot going on that we don't know anything about. And for VN to also go so far knowing that there will be a chinese response, it must mean that they have very good reasons to go in that direction, like maybe the fact that either Russia is not willing to sell some hardware or just the fact that they sell everything to China anyway and VN is force to go in a different direction. This is all really very significant.

Yea I remembered reading something like that about the Su-34. Plus, I suspect the operating cost of the Su-34 would be higher than the Growler, especially when the Su-34 can only purchased in very limited number and another naval strike platform needs to be purchased along with it.

Anyway here is a quote from a former US diplomat:

"News reports indicate that Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and General Dynamics are already lining up, with some major announcements expected before the end of this year," Jatras, a former foreign policy adviser to Republican members of the US Senate, noted.

I remembered there was another subscription article talking about a possible announcement more detailed but I can’t access those right now cos Im not on my computer. I will give a proper reply another time.

Hi friend, long time no see. I remember you are a Chinese journalist right?

You are very welcome here my friend but if there are any comments that you are not happy about, I recommend you to just ignore it, or report it or open a new thread to talk about it. We are trying to keep this thread on topic. Thanks friend.

 

[Carlosa]

The US has already run tests with the SM missile and the F-35 fighter-bomber, in which an SM missile has been fired from a ship but with no target identified. An F-35 in flight took control of the missile in midair, and then as the missile proceeded downrange, handed control of that missile to another F-35. Thus you could imagine a small, hardened launcher on an island popping up a missile and flinging it way into China, where it gets vectored on to target by a stealthy F-35.

The ability of the SM-6 to perform many roles — shooting down airborne targets, hitting ships, attacking deep inland, and hitting ballistic missiles — means that it could be the perfect way to turn that first island chain into a major headache for Chinese military planners.

Yes, I was talking about AEGIS ASHORE which is strictly anti ballistic using SM-3 and relies only on the X band radar. SM-3 intercepts only on the upper atmosphere (high altitude targets only, mid course phase intersection) while SM-6 only does terminal phase interception for ballistic missiles as well as anti cruise missile / anti aircraft interception.

SM-6 only works in AEGIS ships, there is no land version of it. The only land based AEGIS is AEGIS ASHORE, but AEGIS ASHORE only works with SM-3 missiles.

If AEGIS ASHORE were to expand to include SM-6, that would be one very complete system, one hell of a system to have. I guess US has not done such a complete land system because they already use Patriot for the same role as SM-6, but Patriot is not very good.

 

[Aqsuperman]

Until things got signed and deliverance on the way, there is little thing we can say for sure. Not to mention the complex relation about military customers and specialize training that differ from us greatly, top of the line equipments like new generation aircraft and missiles from the US will be really really really hard to get to us. Even the Sigma deal with so much publicity and talking ends up with nothing so i think we should keep expectation low. I do hope a lot from European supplier though

...................Something i found on the net :v

 

[BoQ77]

Yes, I was talking about AEGIS ASHORE which is strictly anti ballistic using SM-3 and relies only on the X band radar. SM-3 intercepts only on the upper atmosphere (high altitude targets only, mid course phase intersection) while SM-6 only does terminal phase interception for ballistic missiles as well as anti cruise missile / anti aircraft interception.

SM-6 only works in AEGIS ships, there is no land version of it. The only land based AEGIS is AEGIS ASHORE, but AEGIS ASHORE only works with SM-3 missiles.

If AEGIS ASHORE were to expand to include SM-6, that would be one very complete system, one hell of a system to have. I guess US has not done such a complete land system because they already use Patriot for the same role as SM-6, but Patriot is not very good.

Sm6 is enough, I focus on the ability to guide SM6 launched without target by E2C/D or F35 to target. As previous post, they said even a lonely launcher in a isolated island could launch some Sm6 and later be guided by Awacs or F35

 

[Carlosa]

Sm6 is enough, I focus on the ability to guide SM6 launched without target by E2C/D or F35 to target. As previous post, they said even a lonely launcher in a isolated island could launch some Sm6 and later be guided by Awacs or F35

Yes, that's a very good capability. VN could use the data from a C-295 AWACS to guide a SM-6 missile to a target.

Well, if USA will really sell F-18s and Prowlers to VN, then an E-2 C could be an option too, the D version may be asking too much I think.

 

[William Hung]

Yes, that's a very good capability. VN could use the data from a C-295 AWACS to guide a SM-6 missile to a target.

Well, if USA will really sell F-18s and Prowlers to VN, then an E-2 C could be an option too, the D version may be asking too much I think.

Small correction: its Growler not Prowler.

 

[Carlosa]

Small correction: its Growler not Prowler.

Right, thank you.

 

[William Hung]

Right, thank you.

So I did some reading on the Super Hornet and Growler and could see how it has advantages over the alternative options, particularly for the SCS. Also I’ve just read a few thing about Boeing wanting to keep that production line active, it made more sense. But I’m off to sleep now, will post another time.