Vietnam Defence Forum

[William Hung]

In return for a $16 billion deal for military planes and aircraft engines, he says the Vietnamese will begin lowering trade tariffs that have choked American exports out of their domestic market for years.

Oh look, Sen. Tom Carper has leaked the $16 billion military deal.

$16 billion =

48 EDA F-16VU (VN-US aniversary edition)
24 F/A-18V
4 EA-18V Growler (VN lite edition)
6 EDA P-3C
3 C-130J

Delivery: 2018-2025

@Carlosa you are welcome.

 

[Aqsuperman]

You should be asking that yourself rather than trying to convince yourself thus lying to yourself as you claim that I am doing the thing you're doing. You aren't aware that you are showcasing your lack of knowledge.


What is your point? No I didn't and that doesn't change anything as I haven't fired a firearm which also doesn't change anything since through information you can comprehend and visualize.

QBZ is a bullpup, firing mechanism is in the back and trigger is in the front thus firing mechanism has more weight than conventional assault rifle while in overall it considerably reduces weight. It is like putting engine in the back of a car as it reduces necessary space thus weight.

If QBZ has similar direction as VHS then it will have a heavier barrel that flexing/shaking less during full automatic fire thus greater accuracy. The round that QBZ fires from available information has far less friction since if I remember correctly is full metal jacket free and Chinese managed to design a rifle that reliably feeds the round.

5.8mm is more powerful and larger and with bullet that is full ketal jacket free which reduces friction thus less resistance which results in higher velocity, also it reduces wearing of the barrel and less shaking/vibration of the barrel too.


I don't. <- Its a lie!



Believe that if that makes you happy... I should offer solutions tzat already exists? I might as well offer a means of easing transportation, I present you the wheel or the boat. Lol

Having a greater range is advantage which are trying to downplay. Its like trying to send someone with a submachine gun against a trooper with assault rifle.

Similar situation is 9x19 vs 7.62x25...

As usual, all the important issues remains UNANSWERED. All you got are silly to outright stupid comparsion and babbling irrelevant stuff. You brain operates just like the prepschool kid : Everything is easy because you dont know half the problems or risks involed in the process of re-arming. And again picking up small part in my line and claiming that im showing my lack of knowledge when your express complete ignorance to the REAL life problems and events: Is the entire Geogria armory depot smart when they change their entire army to M4 with new ammunition just to switch back to AK when the 2008 war broke out ? Your solution for the cost and risks associated ? Solution that exists ? Bother to name a few FEASIBLE ones that not going to lead to certain disaster ? Or all you ever got is "I dont know, its a lie, use a boat or wheel or something, all i care is about the round", yeah sure easy as hell when appy that mess up thinking of your into the complex military supply networks and training right ? :v. LOL you have any idea how stupid, pathetic and ignorant you sound at that part ? Greater range ? LOL then why dont every army in the world just train sniper only ? They can engage far better than nomarl soldier ? You think the world is flat and every terrain is advantage for the side that have longer range ? SMG vs AR is dumb ? Wow i guess some Special Force around the world better listen to you and drop their SMG from the arsenal since it "unwise and downplay".

You dont know anything remotely necessary to say anything about the army yet confidently claim another army is cheap just because we dont use the round you like ? "Comprehend and visualize." ? There is another phrase for that issue which is LACK OF REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE. I only stay a limited time in an army facility due to my university policy but everything you even speak about is just a mess of nonsense. "MG gunner waste more brain power"..........Wow that is something REALLY REAL.

This is just a waste of time when Im arguing with a kid on the forum that dont know crap. Always just want the round while claiming what he dont not even experienced yet. Meh i guesss i will stop with you. Its not like you can even influence any guy around the globe that still using the 7.62mm M43 to change them simply because if your idea sound credible and feasible, you wont even spending time in this forum preaching about the round. Later

8005 ready for action.

 

[William Hung]

I think he made mistake with military planes ( maybe about Boeing 737 Max and P&W engines for Vietjet Air )

Btw, at that time, Chief of Vietnam MoD went to Laos or Cambodia ...

You mean the +11 billion Vietjet boeing civilian deal? no, that is a side deal between two private companies which VN govt should not need to give concession or anything back to the US.

This military deal, is offered by the US and VN govt will give tariff/tax concession in return. (in the case of the other Vietjet purchase, it should be the US side to give something in return, not VN)


p.s. I want to ask your opinion: I estimated and add up the cost for that list, but it should cost under $10 billion total. Do you have any idea what else could be included in the $16 billion deal?

(lau lau tha qua bom cho noi hai)

 

[MacanJawa]

wooooww 16 bilion arms deal? thats huuugeee
vietnam army will be no 1 in asean

 

[William Hung]

wooooww 16 bilion arms deal? thats huuugeee
vietnam army will be no 1 in asean

It is not a one time deal bro, the purchase will be spread out across a span of 8-9 years, if they follow the proposal.

So if we calculate, its actually quite small:

$16 billion divided by 8 years = ~ $2 billion per years. (its still less than the Indonesian annual procurement budget right?)

Thats similar to what VN had previously been spending in the last few years (for example, VN once paid over $2 billion for the Kilo subs, this also doesn’t include the money paid for the Su-30 + other equipments purchased on that same year).

 

[Carlosa]

Oh look, Sen. Tom Carper has leaked the $16 billion military deal.

$16 billion =

48 EDA F-16VU (VN-US aniversary edition)
24 F/A-18V
4 EA-18V Growler (VN lite edition)
6 EDA P-3C
3 C-130J

Delivery: 2018-2025

@Carlosa you are welcome.

That sounds quite good, but definitely have to be other items in that deal, that can't be 16 billion.

A key point would also be what missiles will be used in those planes. If VN uses all American missiles, that will be quite a logistical issue. I don't know but I would use Python (already being used for Spyder) and Meteor (should be ok to use, its supposed to be interfaced with all American fighters). For anti ship missiles it would be good to interface those jets with Russian anti ship missiles. The harpoon is not very impressive at all.

6 P-3 C is not much at all and I don't see the Viking there. 3 C-130J is not much either.

The Growler is the big equalizer here.

 

[BoQ77]

You mean the +11 billion Vietjet boeing civilian deal? no, that is a side deal between two private companies which VN govt should not need to give concession or anything back to the US.

This military deal, is offered by the US and VN govt will give tariff/tax concession in return. (in the case of the other Vietjet purchase, it should be the US side to give something in return, not VN)


p.s. I want to ask your opinion: I estimated and add up the cost for that list, but it should cost under $10 billion total. Do you have any idea what else could be included in the $16 billion deal?

(lau lau tha qua bom cho noi hai)

I am ok for :
- 400 SM6 Sam and AshM cost over 1 billion
they could be blind launched from ship or coast and later guided by AWACs or F35 to ship or aircraft at the range over 400 km.
So I want to add 3 AWACs and 24x F35

SM6 in Da Nang could dominate any aircraft take off operations in Hainan island.

 

[Carlosa]

It is not a one time deal bro, the purchase will be spread out across a span of 8-9 years, if they follow the proposal.

So if we calculate, its actually quite small:

$16 billion divided by 8 years = ~ $2 billion per years. (its still less than the Indonesian annual procurement budget right?)

Thats similar to what VN had previously been spending in the last few years (for example, VN once paid over $2 billion for the Kilo subs, this also doesn’t include the money paid for the Su-30 + other equipments purchased on that same year).

Not quite small at all. VN is dedicating 1.6 billion a year for purchases (average) and that's will all the suppliers, so to add 2 billion a year with a new supplier, that's one hell of a lot.

I am ok for :
- 400 SM6 Sam and AshM cost over 1 billion
they could be blind launched from ship or coast and later guided by AWACs or F35 to ship or aircraft at the range over 400 km.
So I want to add 3 AWACs and 24x F35

I understand is raining in Hanoi right? I think you caught up a cold and you are having some fever, ha ha, SM6 and F-35 for Vietnam? I don't see it anytime soon bro, maybe after a while if the relationship matures a lot, but I don't see it anytime soon. How about AEGIs Ashore? That would be a nice dream.

Actually, if its true that Russia refuses to sell S-400 to Vietnam, then AEGIS Ashore would do the trick.

 

[BoQ77]

Not quite small at all. VN is dedicating 1.6 billion a year for purchases (average) and that's will all the suppliers, so to add 2 billion a year with a new supplier, that's one hell of a lot.



I understand is raining in Hanoi right? I think you caught up a cold and you are having some fever, ha ha, SM6 and F-35 for Vietnam? I don't see it anytime soon bro, maybe after a while if the relationship matures a lot, but I don't see it anytime soon. How about AEGIs Ashore? That would be a nice dream.

Actually, if its true that Russia refuses to sell S-400 to Vietnam, then AEGIS Ashore would do the trick.

AWACS isnt far from our reach. The SM6 is the most suitable to Vietnam, even more flexible than Yakhont and S400
Anyway, that is my wish list.

 

[Carlosa]

AWACS isnt far from our reach. The SM6 is the most suitable to Vietnam, even more flexible than Yakhont and S400
Anyway, that is my wish list.

I agree with you, that would also be my wish list. AWACS should be ok and should come soon (C-295). AEGIS ashore? That's another story. Look at all the fuss that Russia is doing because of the AEGIS Ashore site in Rumania. I don't see USA releasing something like that to Vietnam unless Vietnam becomes a very senior partner, like a strategic partner such as Japan or NATO countries.

 

[BoQ77]

I agree with you, that would also be my wish list. AWACS should be ok and should come soon (C-295). AEGIS ashore? That's another story. Look at all the fuss that Russia is doing because of the AEGIS Ashore site in Rumania. I don't see USA releasing something like that to Vietnam unless Vietnam becomes a very senior partner, like a strategic partner such as Japan or NATO countries.

Yeah, that would save much on anti air destroyers, and has anti ballistic capability too. Small warhead but high kinetic energy with Mach 3.5 make it comparable to any other subsonic AShM in lethality and it has longer range.

SM6, SM6... Without it, big fleet of P3 is meaningless.

Other thing is submarine, but US subs arent suitable to our taste.

 

[William Hung]

Not quite small at all. VN is dedicating 1.6 billion a year for purchases (average) and that's will all the suppliers, so to add 2 billion a year with a new supplier, that's one hell of a lot.

Well I actually don’t know how to make an accurate price estimation, I just calculate based on previous deals like the Indonesian EDA F-16 deal, Australian Super Hornet/Growler deal, etc. + extra for inflation, armaments, logistic support, training, etc. and it came out about ~ $9 billion.

Also, we must remember that if these purchase become true, then other plans will be frozen, e.g. most had already said the Su-30MK2 procurements is finished, no more coming, so that $1.6 billion budget is offsetted.

Yeah the Growler is a game changer. Russia doesn’t have any equivalent for export other than the Su-34 that can perform similar tasks. But probably the logic for the EA-18 lite is that China might be able to acquire the Su-34 themself or Russia might leak some data to China which would not be the case for the EA-18.

Anyway, the the F/A-18V + EA-18V package is supposedly said to be specially configured for the SCS and it will strike fear to the PLAN SCS fleet to such an extend that they will start converting to Christianity for divine protection, turning China the most Christian country in this century.

I have no idea why the S-3 Viking was not included, I like the S-3 too and think it makes perfect sense for VN. Maybe the S-3 can only be a viable choice if SK procures them but we aren’t sure if that will happen.

 

[Carlosa]

Yeah, that would save much on anti air destroyers, and has anti ballistic capability too. Small warhead but high kinetic energy with Mach 3.5 make it comparable to any other subsonic AShM in lethality and it has longer range.

SM6, SM6... Without it, big fleet of P3 is meaningless.

Other thing is submarine, but US subs arent suitable to our taste.

An AEGIS ASHORE battery is about 1 billion usd, that's quite ok. India is spending 6 billion for 5 S-400 batteries. VN can afford such a system and if you look at the map of the area in Europe covered by AEGIS ASHORE, its huge. With such a system, VN can cover not just Hainan island but the south of China. The issue is whether USA would sell that to VN, I think not.

Well I actually don’t know how to make an accurate price estimation, I just calculate based on previous deals like the Indonesian EDA F-16 deal, Australian Super Hornet/Growler deal, etc. + extra for inflation, armaments, logistic support, training, etc. and it came out about ~ $9 billion.

Also, we must remember that if these purchase become true, then other plans will be frozen, e.g. most had already said the Su-30MK2 procurements is finished, no more coming, so that $1.6 billion budget is offsetted.

Yeah the Growler is a game changer. Russia doesn’t have any equivalent for export other than the Su-34 that can perform similar tasks. But probably the logic for the EA-18 lite is that China might be able to acquire the Su-34 themself or Russia might leak some data to China which would not be the case for the EA-18.

Anyway, the the F/A-18V + EA-18V package is supposedly said to be specially configured for the SCS and it will strike fear to the PLAN SCS fleet to such an extend that they will start converting to Christianity for divine protection, turning China the most Christian country in this century.

I have no idea why the S-3 Viking was not included, I like the S-3 too and think it makes perfect sense for VN. Maybe the S-3 can only be a viable choice if SK procures them but we aren’t sure if that will happen.

Well, the F-16s for Indonesia were 31 million per plane, 750 million for 24 planes, so that's very cheap.

The key here is what avionics are included in those F-18s.
SU-34 is a fighter bomber, very good as a bomber, but I'm not aware of an ECM version of it. The Russians have a ECM version of the SU-24 (which was used against the Donald Cook in the black sea). It would make sense to have a version of the SU-34 set up that way in the future.

If USA releases the right tech for both versions of the F-18, then that's indeed a game changer in SCS.

 

[BoQ77]

An AEGIS ASHORE battery is about 1 billion usd, that's quite ok. India is spending 6 billion for 5 S-400 batteries. VN can afford such a system and if you look at the map of the area in Europe covered by AEGIS ASHORE, its huge. With such a system, VN can cover not just Hainan island but the south of China. The issue is whether USA would sell that to VN, I think not.

When Vietnam get Grad BM-21, they asked Soviet Union to design the Grad-P
when Vietnam learn about Aegis Ashore and can touch them, they would ask US to break it apart and provide the air platform with suitable radar to guide any single SM-6 to target, the launcher platform must have mobile capability.

So actually, what I need is not Aegis Ashore, but its variant

 

[William Hung]

I am ok for :
- 400 SM6 Sam and AshM cost over 1 billion
they could be blind launched from ship or coast and later guided by AWACs or F35 to ship or aircraft at the range over 400 km.
So I want to add 3 AWACs and 24x F35

SM6 in Da Nang could dominate any aircraft take off operations in Hainan island.

Wow you are very optimistic about US-VN relationship, and 400 SM6 is very expensive. I think VN will likely buy Israeli missile instead of SM6. Barak-8ER can reach Hainan too.

Hmmm do you think US will trust VN enough to sell F-35? You seem to prefer F-35 over Pak-Fa. I think AEW (C-295 based) will likely come by 2025.

I think this is the most realistic case for SCS based on what been leaked:

F/A-18V + EA-18V + C-295AEW + C-130 tanker.

I have no idea what the missiles is planned.