What's new

Vietnam Defence Forum

New subs might not be enough for Vietnam to defend its South China Sea claims


By Nam Nguyen for The Diplomat
February 16, 2016


vietsub1.jpg




The fifth Kilo-class submarine procured for the Vietnamese People’s Navy (VPN) arrived at Cam Ranh Bay at the beginning of February. The Russian-built submarine started its journey from St Petersberg on the 16th of December on the Dutch-registered cargo ship Rolldock Star and arrived late in the night on Tuesday, February 2, according to Thanh Nien News.

There are currently four Vietnamese crews, supported by Russian advisers, for each of the existing Kilo-class Type 636 submarines in service with the VPN. Under Vietnam’s expanded relationship with Russia, a purpose-built submarine support facility was included as part of the deal to procure six conventional submarines for the VPN.

With the end of this modernization cycle looming on the horizon, however, it remains to be seen how much of an impact these new platforms will have on the security balance in Southeast Asia and, more specifically, the maritime disputes in the South China Sea.

Although Vietnam is progressing with its platform deliveries as scheduled, Hanoi has only recently deployed its first fully-operational Kilo-class submarine. In the mean-time it is unclear what impact the new Kilo’s will have on Vietnam’s naval and maritime law enforcement operations in the South China Sea. Even with an operational submarine as a deterrent, there are still significant capability gaps that Vietnamese military planners need to consider. Also, as history has shown, the ability to follow up initial military action with additional forces to solidify victory is essential in the amphibious domain; Hanoi would do well to heed some of the lessons from previous skirmishes with China over land in the South China Sea.

This, of course, does not mean that Hanoi needs to pursue a strategy similar to that of China’s. Instead what is important for the rapidly-modernizing country to consider is the requirement for at least some capacity to achieve limited sea control. As some analysts have suggested, platforms such as submarines will not be enough to achieve sea control during conflict. Surface ships, and lots of them, forms an essential element of this facet of military planning despite the vulnerabilities of surface combatants against submarines and long-range missiles.

Although delivery of the Kilo submarines appears to be on track, the full operating capacity for the new Kilos is still some years away. What does provide some glimmer of hope for the VPN is the Russian-built equipment now in service in Vietnam’s arsenal, including the Su-30MK2V Flankers and Bastion K-300P mobile coastal batteries armed with the Orynx missile. The new hardware will be well-served if Vietnam is able to expand its ISR capabilities in order to provide better domain awareness and targeting data for conventional attacks. Investing in unmanned systems, such as the HS-6L long-range unmanned aerial vehicle, can also assist in better tactical awareness and investing in better satellite coverage can provide increased domain awareness in the South China Sea.

Whilst not entirely new to Vietnam’s theater of operations, the reliability and range of these new platforms will be able to assist in providing a capability edge in limited action and sea control if a “hot” conflict were to flash up. Vietnam’s modernization efforts to date have primarily been aimed at replacing aging equipment. If Hanoi’s aim was to further strengthen its footing in the South China Sea, the Vietnamese People Party’s debate needs to be steered beyond what the Kilo-class can provide and consider what assets can best-serve his goal.



Nam Nguyen is a graduate of the University of New South Wales and the Australian Defence Force Academy. He is currently a warfare officer in the Royal Australian Navy and has publishes regularly on military and strategic affairs. He is an MPhil candidate at UNSW and the views expressed in this article are his own.
 
New subs might not be enough for Vietnam to defend its South China Sea claims


By Nam Nguyen for The Diplomat
February 16, 2016


vietsub1.jpg




The fifth Kilo-class submarine procured for the Vietnamese People’s Navy (VPN) arrived at Cam Ranh Bay at the beginning of February. The Russian-built submarine started its journey from St Petersberg on the 16th of December on the Dutch-registered cargo ship Rolldock Star and arrived late in the night on Tuesday, February 2, according to Thanh Nien News.

There are currently four Vietnamese crews, supported by Russian advisers, for each of the existing Kilo-class Type 636 submarines in service with the VPN. Under Vietnam’s expanded relationship with Russia, a purpose-built submarine support facility was included as part of the deal to procure six conventional submarines for the VPN.

With the end of this modernization cycle looming on the horizon, however, it remains to be seen how much of an impact these new platforms will have on the security balance in Southeast Asia and, more specifically, the maritime disputes in the South China Sea.

Although Vietnam is progressing with its platform deliveries as scheduled, Hanoi has only recently deployed its first fully-operational Kilo-class submarine. In the mean-time it is unclear what impact the new Kilo’s will have on Vietnam’s naval and maritime law enforcement operations in the South China Sea. Even with an operational submarine as a deterrent, there are still significant capability gaps that Vietnamese military planners need to consider. Also, as history has shown, the ability to follow up initial military action with additional forces to solidify victory is essential in the amphibious domain; Hanoi would do well to heed some of the lessons from previous skirmishes with China over land in the South China Sea.

This, of course, does not mean that Hanoi needs to pursue a strategy similar to that of China’s. Instead what is important for the rapidly-modernizing country to consider is the requirement for at least some capacity to achieve limited sea control. As some analysts have suggested, platforms such as submarines will not be enough to achieve sea control during conflict. Surface ships, and lots of them, forms an essential element of this facet of military planning despite the vulnerabilities of surface combatants against submarines and long-range missiles.

Although delivery of the Kilo submarines appears to be on track, the full operating capacity for the new Kilos is still some years away. What does provide some glimmer of hope for the VPN is the Russian-built equipment now in service in Vietnam’s arsenal, including the Su-30MK2V Flankers and Bastion K-300P mobile coastal batteries armed with the Orynx missile. The new hardware will be well-served if Vietnam is able to expand its ISR capabilities in order to provide better domain awareness and targeting data for conventional attacks. Investing in unmanned systems, such as the HS-6L long-range unmanned aerial vehicle, can also assist in better tactical awareness and investing in better satellite coverage can provide increased domain awareness in the South China Sea.

Whilst not entirely new to Vietnam’s theater of operations, the reliability and range of these new platforms will be able to assist in providing a capability edge in limited action and sea control if a “hot” conflict were to flash up. Vietnam’s modernization efforts to date have primarily been aimed at replacing aging equipment. If Hanoi’s aim was to further strengthen its footing in the South China Sea, the Vietnamese People Party’s debate needs to be steered beyond what the Kilo-class can provide and consider what assets can best-serve his goal.



Nam Nguyen is a graduate of the University of New South Wales and the Australian Defence Force Academy. He is currently a warfare officer in the Royal Australian Navy and has publishes regularly on military and strategic affairs. He is an MPhil candidate at UNSW and the views expressed in this article are his own.

6 subs ain't going to do much.
 
With luck, VN might produce some dirty bombs with nuclear wastes and mannage to put it in a Scud but that is it. To support a robust nuclear program ,either military or economic ,require a very high level of manpower and investment which VN can ill-afford. For now i think a concentration in convential weapons and tactics has a more promising result. We cant compete on pair with our lovely neighboor on the North but with 6 kilo submarines we sure as hell can make them pay hard

A T-54 crew is listening to instructions before a live-firing excersise

12439245_858363384286623_1802550689355530349_n.jpg
 
In my opinion, our M18 are a converted and refurbished product, not newly produced. We probably use captured M16A1 and A2 for this.

@Aqsuperman I agree with you. The more I analyze those guns the more I think those CAR15 and M16A1 are just stockpile left after the war. Considering the +1 million troops (regulars, reserves and militia) of the South Vietnamese army, VPA could ended up with hundred thousands of those rifles. It logical for VPA to just refurbished and add silencers... Why building a new manufacturing lines to produce old generation rifles (when those CAR15 and M16 have been upgraded multiple times for M4 and M16A2-A4)? And the Colt company would sue Viet Nam for sure if they start production those guns? By the way, if they refurbished those guns I hope they fix those horrible jams problems of the CAR15 and M16A1
 
Last edited:
This might be a off-topic, but Conservatives in South Korea are calling for nuke weapon in dealing with N. korea:

Calls for S. Korea to take nuclear path, East Asia News & Top Stories - The Straits Times

Maybe, Vietnam should start on this path if she hasn't already. Vietnam might not succeed, but it will cause her aggressor to pause in his track.
theoretically yes, realistic no.

at least not for now.

there are many hurdles we will have to overcome, from mastering the technology to getting political support from a superpower. to mention is the money we need for nuclear armament: estimated $100 billion.
 
AK-47 is still the best, isn´t it?
widely popular, not too expensive, very reliable and respectable firepower.
MW-EF939_vietna_20160221185421_ZH.jpg





Hanoi. new recruits of the new year. 4,000 Hanoian young freshman will join the army this year. Have fun!
bi-thu-ha-noi-va-chu-tich-chung-tien-hang-tram-tan-binh-len-duong-6-bb-baaacUqIRL.jpg



bi-thu-ha-noi-va-chu-tich-chung-tien-hang-tram-tan-binh-len-duong-5-bb-baaadJwtak.jpg



onghai-1456197303746-13-0-349-660-crop-1456197331243-copy-1456198553705-0-0-337-660-crop-1456198574956-bb-baaacKB30G.jpg




bi-thu-ha-noi-va-chu-tich-chung-tien-hang-tram-tan-binh-len-duong-4-bb-baaacZpAdP.jpg



bi-thu-ha-noi-va-chu-tich-chung-tien-hang-tram-tan-binh-len-duong-3-bb-baaadoLILa.jpg



bi-thu-ha-noi-va-chu-tich-chung-tien-hang-tram-tan-binh-len-duong-1-bb-baaacr1Ux6.jpg



bi-thu-ha-noi-va-chu-tich-chung-tien-hang-tram-tan-binh-len-duong-2-bb-baaacp7Z7b.jpg
 
VN satellite to enter space by 2018 - Society - VietNam News


February, 23 2016 16:44:00
Viet Nam News


HA NOI (VNS) — A 50kg satellite, measuring 50x50x50cm, will be launched into space by Viet Nam in 2018.


asso-prof-dr-pham-anh-tuan-at-the-workshop-source-hanoimoi-com-vn-1554897-btatn11914vetinh.jpg

Asso.Prof. Dr. Pham Anh Tuan at the workshop (Source: hanoimoi.com.vn)



phong-ve-tinh.jpg


Design of the MicroDragon satellite. The 50kg satellite will be launched in 2018 with assistance from Japan. — Photo vnsg.org.vn



The MicroDragon satellite will be designed and created by Vietnamese engineers, with the support of Japanese experts. Japan's Epsilon rocket, created by IHI Aerospace company, will carry the MicroDragon satellite into space.



epsilon.jpg

Picture: Japan’s Epsilon-1 rocket blasts off from its launching pad at the Uchinoura Space Center in Kimotsuki town, Kagoshima prefecture.



The satellite will observe the coastal areas of the country to evaluate water quality, navigate marine food resources and follow up on changes in coastal areas to inform Viet Nam's aquaculture breeding sector.

Director of Viet Nam National Satellite Centre (VNSC) Pham Anh Tuan said the MicroDragon project is expected to help create an environment in which young people have the chance to practice working with strict discipline and independent creativity.

Viet Nam launched the 1kg PicoDragon satellite to give Vietnamese experts the chance to explore the process of designing, creating and piloting a satellite in August 2013.

Under the Made-in-Vietnam satellite development roadmap, the country will launch the 10kg NanoDragon satellite in 2016, the 50kg MicroDragon satellite in 2018 and the 500kg LOTUSat-2 in 2020. — VNS
 
Last edited:
Yes, please explain the differences in more detail.
That subject is not off topic since Vietnam plans to get the T-50 in the 2020s anyway.
The Indonesian members also regularly read this thread and Indonesia is buying the SU-35 so its all related.

Well, for today T-50 platform (T-50 is a factory name of platform, for example, platform of Su-27 called T-10) considered as more stealth compare to the F-22 and F-35 (F-35 due its smaller size can have the same RCS as T-50).
- one of the main reason for this is in general, smaller size of the vertical and horizontal stabilizers which is doesn't affect aerodynamic of T-50 + instead of S- air intake, the T-50 using technology of radar blocker combined with C- air-intake. The radar blocker technology in air intake considered as more perspective and the engines don't lose the power as in the case of S air-intake

engines:
-with the current AL-41F1 engines the T-50 can reach supersonic speed with payload without using afterburner. (F-35 and Chinese 5th generation jets can't). Engines of the F-22 has a bigger sizes and weight compare to AL-41F1 and also consume more fuel - which is reducing combat range.

-radars and avionics, ECM
Just look at this infographic, i don't think there is many 5th or 4th generation jets has even close numbers of different radars and ECM in one fighter jets .
0_f722a_ed1eee3d_orig


and of course a lot of new weapons were created for the T-50.

Close future (3-5 years):
-new more powerful engines with increased trust at 25-30%
-new radar will be based on Radio-Optical Phased Arrays (ROFAR) - a revolutionary technology
-hypersonic missiles.
0_b576f_4e68014b_orig
 
The news on the web is that vietnam s big neighbor has deploy fighter jets in additional to HQ SAM and radar.

What's in the world is gone on?? I thought China was pleased when Trong stay on as party Chief. Am I missing something.??

The news on the web is that vietnam s big neighbor has deploy fighter jets in additional to HQ SAM and radar to Paracel island

What's in the world is gone on?? I thought China was pleased when Trong stay on as party Chief. Am I missing something.??
 
Well.........let just say sh*t got real fast around here for no reasons at all :v And it happen when the newest conscription period is in place............ damn nice timing :v
 
What China’s SAMs in the South China Sea Mean for Vietnam | The Diplomat
Only “boots on the ground” will secure Vietnam’s national interests in the South China Sea.


By Nam Nguyen
February 24, 2016



tham-don-vi-trang-bi-sat-thu-diet-ham-k-300p-bastion-p-hinh-2.jpg

681 brigade at the 60th anniversary of establishment of the Navy Vietnam, with K-300P Bastion-P mobile coastal defense missile system (photo : Tuoitre)



International attention has once again closed in on the South China Sea over claims that China has deployed HQ-9 surface-to-air missile batteries to Woody Island. Reports suggest that U.S. intelligence sources have confirmed the presence of these mobile batteries, whereas satellite images of Woody Island earlier this month showed no such batteries. China’s Foreign Minister, Wang Yi, has downplayed concerns over these claims by suggesting that China only has limited self-defense capabilities on some of its islands. Also, late last year Chinese President Xi Jinping reassured the international community that China did not intend to militarize its islands in the South China Sea.

These statements, of course, do not reassure China’s neighbors. The fourth-generation of HQ-9 mobile missile batteries are reported to have a range of over 125 kilometers. This would complicate military aviation operations by claimant states and other nations operating in the region, such as the United States or Australia. What this means is that Chinese forces now have an increased stand-off capability, potentially giving them the capability edge in maneuverability and intelligence gathering, further solidifying their position on Woody Island. It would not be unreasonable to infer that similar installations will soon appear across other Chinese-occupied islands in the South China Sea.

New missile systems in the region are not just unique to China. Vietnam has also continuously upgraded its own defensive missile systems, procuring two batteries of the Russian-made K-300P Bastion coastal missile system in 2011 and a further two batteries of the S-300 PMU-2 long-range surface-to-air missile systems in 2012. In 2014, Vietnam upgraded both its short-range surface-to-air missile systems, as well as its coastal missile systems. Also, the Vietnamese military has been undergoing efforts to boost its coastal surveillance radar systems since 2013, and the country even successfully built its first unmanned aerial vehicle in 2013.


Vietnam S-300 missiles

S-300PMU-1_13.jpg




S-300PMU-1_8.jpg




ea6cdd0a-445f-4b65-9524-131b4270e9d9.jpeg




The problem with the existing framework of Vietnam’s missile batteries and surveillance system is not in its range or lethality. Indeed, the mere presence of these weapons provides a considerable layer of defense that any force must overcome if it were to attack Vietnam. The issue is that these systems are based on the mainland with a view to territorial defense and Vietnam has not demonstrated the capability to deploy them across the region.

If a conflict were to erupt in the South China Sea, Hanoi would soon find that its military installations in the South China Sea would be left vulnerable to attack and at risk of inadequate resupply. As Ngo Minh Tri and Koh Swee Lean Collin have suggested, limited sea control capability was fundamental to the Chinese victory in the Battle of the Paracel Islands in 1974. Every attempt must be made to learn from Saigon’s mishap and plan to avoid a similar defeat if conflict were to erupt. Having territory is one thing, but holding onto it remains another challenge altogether.

As I have mentioned previously, the Vietnamese military has been undergoing significant efforts to modernize its forces, including new submarines, frigates, and fighter aircraft. But without the capacity for strategic sealift, any ground force would be fighting with one arm tied behind their back and left vulnerable to being routed in battle, as was seen in 1974. Currently the main amphibious elements of the VPA consists of ageing Soviet-era and ex-U.S. landing craft in various states of repair and in spite of recent efforts by national ship builders to produce indigenous-designed landing craft.



Nam Nguyen is a graduate of the University of New South Wales and the Australian Defence Force Academy. He is currently a warfare officer in the Royal Australian Navy and has publishes regularly on military and strategic affairs. He is an MPhil candidate at UNSW and the views expressed in this article are his own.
 
Last edited:
did I post here a rumour sometimes ago, Vietnam plans to open 4 new airports close to China?

here is the first new one: Quang Ninh airport. it is just 50 km away to the Halong Bay, with the first stage to be completed in one year. it is understood, though it is a civil airport, it can serve military purposes as well. fighter jets starting from the new airport can reach Chinese major naval base on Hainan island in no time.

another step on the escalation ladder


Vietnam to open airport near Ha Long Bay in 2017: report | Business | Thanh Nien Daily


quangninh_HYUR.jpg




HalongBayMap4.jpg
 
The news on the web is that vietnam s big neighbor has deploy fighter jets in additional to HQ SAM and radar.

What's in the world is gone on?? I thought China was pleased when Trong stay on as party Chief. Am I missing something.??


Sorry Off Topic ... ...

:astagh:

How can most of you forget the old colonial tactic employ by US and their supporting nation.
Divide--and--Conquer is the old colonial tactic that has been used over and
over again by all the white colonial powers since 15th century.

Yes, you have been missing something.
My guess you have been brainwashed in a deep way by US
the global Plunderer and Heinous Invader for far too long.

===

1) Firstly, let me ask you who are stealing Indonesian Off Shore Oils in East Kalimantan and Gold in Freeport, Irian Jaya every second since Suharto era ? --- How much did Indonesia people lost ?
( Answer = the good old USA and Americans ~ that's who )

2) Secondly, who stole Timor Timur from Indonesia ?
( Answer = the good old USA and Americans and Australia and Australians ~ that's who )

3) Thirdly, who stole Eastern IRIAN island from Indonesia ?
( Answer = the good old USA and Americans and Australia and Australians ~ that's who )

4) Fourthly, who stole Christmas island from Indonesia ( very close to West Java island ) ?
( Answer = the good old USA and Americans and Australia and Australians ~ that's who )

Need I give you more example of Plundering and Theft ... ...suffered by Indonesia and Indonesian at the hand of master plunderer ^ the good old USA and Americans and its sidekick Australia and Australians ??

===

Make no mistake about it ... ...

The build up Anti-Stealth Radar and HQ-9 SAM and J-11B by China are targeted
only at USAF F-22 and USN warship Burkes
from the Dajjal empire USA.

Let not be forever fooled by American and Western media ... ...

Americans, Australia, and Japan are working very hard to bottle up China SSBN 094 submarine from sailing into Pacific ocean, because if China does not have a nuclear 2nd strike, then USA, Australia, and Japan can always bully and blackmail China whenever they like.
The South China sea problem is only about how China is working hard to
stop and end the American nuclear blackmailing towards China.

===

OTOH, China with their 1B1R global economic program would like very much to bring even more Win--Win--Win Economic Prosperity to Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, and Vietnam, and all China friendly nations across Asia to Europe by financing and helping other nations building up their Cutting Edge infrastructures to connect Europe and South East Asia immediately right now to spur vibrant economic activities around the High Speed Rail dedicated track corridor, just like what happen in China for since 2008.

Proof:

Who is financing the High Speed rail from Jakarta---Bandung 100% without even
asking for the Indonesian government guarantee in case the project fails
??
( Answer = People's Republic of China ~ that's who )

Please correctly get your facts ... ...
Please do not let your personal experiences of the impolite, rude, and stupid behaviors
of some street level regular Chinese in blocking the nation building
and mutual economic prosperity between our nations. ( Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, and China )

Too many people has the American Zero--Sum mentality deeply ingrained in their thinking.
Let's embrace the new era of Win--Win--Win Global Prosperity for all progressive nations.
:-) :-)


Back to Vietnam Military news ... ...

Indo--PRC--flag--1a.jpg


Vietnam--PRC--flag--1a.jpg
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom