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No, the problem is that Vietnam made a choice for the cheapest, simplest of all the Gepard variants. There were much better choices, but Vietnam is getting what it has chosen.

Firstly, Vietnam made a huge mistake in choosing a Russian platform.

And if they gone Russian, I dont know why the hell Vietnam not asked advanced version of Talwar class, the russians offering this platform to India since 2011.
 
Firstly, Vietnam made a huge mistake in choosing a Russian platform.

And if they gone Russian, I dont know why the hell Vietnam not asked advanced version of Talwar class, the russians offering this platform to India since 2011.

I definitely agree, but Vietnam's opening to western weapon systems has been very recent, so they went with what they knew and that's Russia. Oh well.

It seems like the intention with the first batch of the Gepards was to order cheap and simple in order to reduce risk since they had problems earlier with the failed project of the BPS-500, etc.
 
Congress Seeks to Arm U.S. Allies in the Pacific to Counter China
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By Kris Osborn | Thursday, May 28th, 2015 5:55 pm
Posted in Land
Congress Seeks to Arm U.S. Allies in the Pacific to Counter China | DoD Buzz

Lawmakers are hoping to arm and train U.S. allies in the Pacific as a way to counter China’s increasingly assertive behavior in the region.

As part of a markup of the 2016 defense bill, lawmakers from the Senate Armed Services Committee, or SASC, have added a “China Sea Initiative” designed to challenge China’s activities by supporting U.S. allies in the region.

The legislation is designed, in part, to address China’s ongoing effort to build artificial islands in the South China Sea to bolster territorial claims in the region.

The new language, inserted by SASC Chairman Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., seeks to provide funds to train and equip allied countries in the region such as Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam.

The new directive is designed “to provide assistance to national military or other security forces of such countries that have among their functional responsibilities maritime security missions,” the proposed language states.

If adopted in the final conferenced version of the Bill later this summer, this provision will provide up to $425 million for this mission over the next five years, including $50 million in 2016.

Over just the past year, China has added more than 1,500 acres of new artificial territory to its island areas in the South China Sea, Pentagon officials said.

While U.S. defense officials decline to speculate as to why this is occurring and say they’d like to see more “transparency” from China regarding these actions, the moves appear to be a clear effort to bolster territorial claims in the Spratly Island region and South China Sea.

The Spratly Islands includes an area of more than 750 reefs, small islands and atolls in the South China Sea off the coasts of the Philippines, Malaysia and Vietnam. Highly disputed for centuries, the area is rich in oil and natural gas. Countries claiming rights to territory in the Spratly Islands include China, Malaysia, Vietnam, Philippines, Taiwan, and Brunei.

The South China Sea includes strategically vital waterways, important to international trade. In a recent speech in Hawaii, as part of a trip through the Asia Pacific region, Defense Secretary Ashton Carter criticized China’s artificial island-building and said the U.S. would not be deterred by China’s moves.

“The United States will fly, sail, and operate wherever international law allows, as we do all around the world. With its actions in the South China Sea, China is out of step with both international norms that underscore the Asia-Pacific’s security architecture and the regional consensus in favor of a non-coercive approach to this and other long-standing disputes,” he said.

“We will remain the principal security power in the Asia-Pacific for decades to come,” he said.

Alongside the new provision, McCain and SASC ranking democrat Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., sent a letter to Defense Secretary Ashton Carter outlining their concerns regarding China’s behavior in the region and asking Carter to strengthen the U.S. military response to the issue.

Among other things, the letter argues that China should not be invited to participate in the upcoming 2016 Rim of the Pacific multi-national military exercise slated to take place in Hawaii.

“Given China’s behavior in the past year alone, including its disregard for the interests of our allies, international law and established norms, we do not believe Beijing should have been invited to this prestigious U.S.-led military exercise in 2016,” the letter states.

China participated in the most recent Rim of the Pacific exercise in 2014 and drew criticism for bringing an intelligence gathering ship to the event, an occurrence the letter makes reference to.

While the lawmakers do cite the importance of sustaining a military-to-military relationship with China, they caution that more should be done to challenge China’s coercive and “bullying” behavior throughout the region.

Carter added that China’s actions are inspiring countries in the area to come together and said the situation calls for greater U.S. involvement.

“The reason that the United States and everyone else in the region has a stake in this, is because it gets to the question of freedom of navigation, freedom of the seas, freedom from coercion, abiding by peaceful and lawful processes, and that is, again, a longstanding U.S. position, as it freedom of flying, freedom to sail,” Carter told reporters while traveling through the area.

These comments from Carter after China formally protested the flight of a U.S. Navy P-8A Poseidon surveillance plane over areas where China was reclaiming land to build an island.

China’s assertive behavior in the region appears, at least to some extent, to be based upon its territorial claims in the South China Sea referred to as the nine-dash-line.

China appears to claim most, if not all of the South China Sea through its so-called nine-dash line, which vaguely asserts control, access and sovereignty over 1.4 million square miles of islands, Pentagon officials said.

Although U.S. officials say China has not clearly articulated what it means, the nine-dash line can be traced back to China’s ruling party from 1928 to 1949 – the Koumintang. The Koumintang retreated to Taiwan in 1949 when the Communist Party of China took over following civil war in the country, however the concept of the nine-dash line has endured.

The U.S. has officially gone on record saying that the People’s Republic of China’s nine-dash line is not in accordance with existing international law. In fact, McCain and Reed’s letter specifically says the U.S. government should do more to challenge the legality of China’s nine-dash-line claim.

– Kris Osborn can be reached at Kris.Osborn@military.com
 
Firstly, Vietnam made a huge mistake in choosing a Russian platform.

And if they gone Russian, I dont know why the hell Vietnam not asked advanced version of Talwar class, the russians offering this platform to India since 2011.
I don´t think it is a mistake. just we lack of money, hence the cheap gepard warship. how much is Talwar?
 
Congress Seeks to Arm U.S. Allies in the Pacific to Counter China
thumb.php


By Kris Osborn | Thursday, May 28th, 2015 5:55 pm
Posted in Land
Congress Seeks to Arm U.S. Allies in the Pacific to Counter China | DoD Buzz

Lawmakers are hoping to arm and train U.S. allies in the Pacific as a way to counter China’s increasingly assertive behavior in the region.

As part of a markup of the 2016 defense bill, lawmakers from the Senate Armed Services Committee, or SASC, have added a “China Sea Initiative” designed to challenge China’s activities by supporting U.S. allies in the region.

The legislation is designed, in part, to address China’s ongoing effort to build artificial islands in the South China Sea to bolster territorial claims in the region.

The new language, inserted by SASC Chairman Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., seeks to provide funds to train and equip allied countries in the region such as Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam.

The new directive is designed “to provide assistance to national military or other security forces of such countries that have among their functional responsibilities maritime security missions,” the proposed language states.

If adopted in the final conferenced version of the Bill later this summer, this provision will provide up to $425 million for this mission over the next five years, including $50 million in 2016.

Over just the past year, China has added more than 1,500 acres of new artificial territory to its island areas in the South China Sea, Pentagon officials said.

While U.S. defense officials decline to speculate as to why this is occurring and say they’d like to see more “transparency” from China regarding these actions, the moves appear to be a clear effort to bolster territorial claims in the Spratly Island region and South China Sea.

The Spratly Islands includes an area of more than 750 reefs, small islands and atolls in the South China Sea off the coasts of the Philippines, Malaysia and Vietnam. Highly disputed for centuries, the area is rich in oil and natural gas. Countries claiming rights to territory in the Spratly Islands include China, Malaysia, Vietnam, Philippines, Taiwan, and Brunei.

The South China Sea includes strategically vital waterways, important to international trade. In a recent speech in Hawaii, as part of a trip through the Asia Pacific region, Defense Secretary Ashton Carter criticized China’s artificial island-building and said the U.S. would not be deterred by China’s moves.

“The United States will fly, sail, and operate wherever international law allows, as we do all around the world. With its actions in the South China Sea, China is out of step with both international norms that underscore the Asia-Pacific’s security architecture and the regional consensus in favor of a non-coercive approach to this and other long-standing disputes,” he said.

“We will remain the principal security power in the Asia-Pacific for decades to come,” he said.

Alongside the new provision, McCain and SASC ranking democrat Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., sent a letter to Defense Secretary Ashton Carter outlining their concerns regarding China’s behavior in the region and asking Carter to strengthen the U.S. military response to the issue.

Among other things, the letter argues that China should not be invited to participate in the upcoming 2016 Rim of the Pacific multi-national military exercise slated to take place in Hawaii.

“Given China’s behavior in the past year alone, including its disregard for the interests of our allies, international law and established norms, we do not believe Beijing should have been invited to this prestigious U.S.-led military exercise in 2016,” the letter states.

China participated in the most recent Rim of the Pacific exercise in 2014 and drew criticism for bringing an intelligence gathering ship to the event, an occurrence the letter makes reference to.

While the lawmakers do cite the importance of sustaining a military-to-military relationship with China, they caution that more should be done to challenge China’s coercive and “bullying” behavior throughout the region.

Carter added that China’s actions are inspiring countries in the area to come together and said the situation calls for greater U.S. involvement.

“The reason that the United States and everyone else in the region has a stake in this, is because it gets to the question of freedom of navigation, freedom of the seas, freedom from coercion, abiding by peaceful and lawful processes, and that is, again, a longstanding U.S. position, as it freedom of flying, freedom to sail,” Carter told reporters while traveling through the area.

These comments from Carter after China formally protested the flight of a U.S. Navy P-8A Poseidon surveillance plane over areas where China was reclaiming land to build an island.

China’s assertive behavior in the region appears, at least to some extent, to be based upon its territorial claims in the South China Sea referred to as the nine-dash-line.

China appears to claim most, if not all of the South China Sea through its so-called nine-dash line, which vaguely asserts control, access and sovereignty over 1.4 million square miles of islands, Pentagon officials said.

Although U.S. officials say China has not clearly articulated what it means, the nine-dash line can be traced back to China’s ruling party from 1928 to 1949 – the Koumintang. The Koumintang retreated to Taiwan in 1949 when the Communist Party of China took over following civil war in the country, however the concept of the nine-dash line has endured.

The U.S. has officially gone on record saying that the People’s Republic of China’s nine-dash line is not in accordance with existing international law. In fact, McCain and Reed’s letter specifically says the U.S. government should do more to challenge the legality of China’s nine-dash-line claim.

– Kris Osborn can be reached at Kris.Osborn@military.com
$50m budget a year to arm US allies in the Pacific? I´m afraid it is too litle. Anyway it is a good start.

$300-350 mil with weapon package.
sounds good to me. I wonder why our navy does not pick it.

I definitely agree, but Vietnam's opening to western weapon systems has been very recent, so they went with what they knew and that's Russia. Oh well.

It seems like the intention with the first batch of the Gepards was to order cheap and simple in order to reduce risk since they had problems earlier with the failed project of the BPS-500, etc.
what says your contact at the navy? is our gepard too weak to confront chinese frigate and destroyer?
 
It seems like the intention with the first batch of the Gepards was to order cheap and simple in order to reduce risk since they had problems earlier with the failed project of the BPS-500, etc.
But right now Indian Navy almost using them over a decade.

Even Vietnam can ask training for its sailors from India for its talwar class. And can order spare parts from India for its frigate.
 
sounds good to me. I wonder why our navy does not pick it.

Because the right people didn't get the red envelope. :D

But right now Indian Navy almost using them over a decade.

Even Vietnam can ask training for its sailors from India for its talwar class. And can order spare parts from India for its frigate.

I don't know, but it seems to me that some of the people that make purchasing decisions for the navy are either incompetent or corrupted.

what says your contact at the navy? is our gepard too weak to confront chinese frigate and destroyer?

My navy contact said that the navy DOES NOT LIKE the Gepards, they didn't want them, but the higher ups made the decision anyway. Yes, the Gepards are not strong enough to confront the chinese.
 
Because the right people didn't get the red envelope. :D



I don't know, but it seems to me that some of the people that make purchasing decisions for the navy are either incompetent or corrupted.



My navy contact said that the navy DOES NOT LIKE the Gepards, they didn't want them, but the higher ups made the decision anyway.
very disappointed. corruption is a cancer that needs to be wiped out, otherwise our country never moves forward.
 
today news. the tension seems to escalate further. a good sign is that the US steps in and confronts the chinese. a war between US and China can no longer be ruled out.

US patrol plane has detected Chinese mobile artillery weapons systems on a reclaimed island.
U.S. says China has placed mobile artillery on reclaimed island| Reuters

John McCain pushes for end of arms embargo for Vietnam. Next week. We need weapons that can alter the balance of powers in the SC Sea.
McCain to Push Change on Vietnam Arms Embargo

Yes, very true, that's a big problem in Vietnam.
no, not good at all.
from your contact, have you heard anything about the 6 planned supersized 4,500 tons Gepards?
 
from your contact, have you heard anything about the 6 planned supersized 4,500 tons Gepards?

No, they know there are bigger ships coming in the future, but don't know the details.
 
No, they know there are bigger ships coming in the future, but don't know the details.
what about the Sigma frigate? I believe our military build-up runs at snail speed.

###

bro, great news!

That is the first step toward a military US/JP alliance. Our friend John McCain wants the US to deliver weapons to assist Vietnam if it comes to war with China. Japan as US ally is obliged to assist Vietnam, too if the US steps in.


US Senator McCain wants to arm Vietnam in case of 'crisis' with China

"We'd like to see them have great capability, particularly with weapons that are defensive in nature, that could be used in the case of a crisis situation between Vietnam and China," the Senator says.
upload_2015-5-30_16-16-50.png


SINGAPORE: US Republican Senator John McCain has called for the gradual removal of the country's lethal arms embargo on Vietnam "as soon as possible".

Senator McCain made the remarks on Saturday (May 30) on the sidelines of the Shangri-La Dialogue, arguing that Vietnam needs to be given the means to further deter "assertive behaviour" by Beijing in the South China Sea.
"We'd like to see them have great capability, particularly with weapons that are defensive in nature, that could be used in the case of a crisis situation between Vietnam and China," he said.

However, Senator McCain said there would be firm restrictions on the types of weaponry the US would sell if the decades-old embargo was fully lifted.

"The systems that I would like to sell is any system that is not related to the ability to abuse human rights; in other words, the kind of weaponry that would be for crowd control or used to harm individuals," he said.

The United States has been actively attempting to build the maritime capabilities of ASEAN nations embroiled in the South China Sea conflict including Vietnam and the Philippines, as well as boosting its military cooperation with Japan, South Korea and Australia, to blunt China's sphere of influence.

"We know the Philippines are heavily involved. They have very little maritime capability. Let's assess them in helping develop that capability," he said.

RECENT CHINA BEHAVIOUR NOT AN ACCIDENT

He also reiterated earlier comments from US Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter about China's "blatant violation of international law" in the disputed territory. In a speech to delegates at the forum, Carter said "simply turning a rock into an airfield does not give territorial rights", in reference to China's reported installation of weaponry on reclaimed land.

"There is a scenario where you could see a crisis situation, but I am guardedly optimistic that that can be avoided, with a united ASEAN in partnership with the United States showing China that this is not a productive exercise that they're engaged with," said Senator McCain.

"We believe Secretary Carter's statement that we will fly anywhere and sail anywhere in international water, is a commitment. There is no 12-mile barrier around these reclaimed lands. To respect that would be a de facto recognition of what the Chinese are trying to achieve."

Senator McCain confirmed he and Senator Jack Reed had written a letter to the Defense Secretary requesting China not be invited to Exercise RIMPAC, the world's largest international maritime warfare exercise, held biannually. He said he had not received a response to that request.

"We do not believe China's recent assertive behaviour is an accident; rather it appears to be concerted effort to change the status quo of the region, unilaterally, coercively and in blatant disregard of the view of its neighbours.
"China will likely continue its destabilising activities unless and until it perceives that the costs of doing so outweighs the benefits. Clearly it has not yet included that," he said.

US Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter will travel to Vietnam next week, as part of his ongoing tour of the region.

US Senator McCain wants to arm Vietnam in case of 'crisis' with China - Channel NewsAsia
 
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what about the Sigma frigate? I believe our military build-up runs at snail speed.

I don't know why there is no delivery schedule about the Sigmas, no announcements, nothing at all.

Snail speed is right, that's how government bureaucrats work.
 
I don't know, but it seems to me that some of the people that make purchasing decisions for the navy are either incompetent or corrupted.
Maybe one reason was that it not fitted with large heli hanger.
img_54_15394_2.jpg


I dont know Talwar is even fitted with heli hanger or not. But it seems there is for small heli.
 
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