Viable Replacement of Fokker F27-200 and Breguet Atlantique I?

[Luftwaffe]

PAK NAVY Viable Replacement of Fokker F27-200 and Breguet Atlantique I

There are 7 Fokker F27-200 in Pak Navy for a long time and so the 2 Berguet Atlantique I, being in Service with Pak Navy close to 30 years.
Although we know that Pakistan has an agreement in place to purchase 7 more P-3C Orion apart from the 7 going under or has been upgraded, would they replace the above mentioned maritime surveillance and anti-submarine warfare aircrafts or Is there any plans in place for their replacement apart from those 7 on order.
According to US Navy They’ve some 150 or so P-3C Orion variants in long term storage and USN plans to reduce the number to 130.
Would Pakistan be looking to procure 7-10 more under its EDA or excess defense articles, and bring them on par with current levels through MLU to extend P-3 airframe flight restrictions and provides 15,000 additional flight hours.

Please Discuss….(If I'm mistaken on any account do correct me)

 

[ANG]

Hi, there are a number of new Marine Patrol Aircraft (MPA) platforms available. I would avoid P3s as they are American and hence sanction prone. If you recall in the 90s a PN P3 crashed killing everyone on board, and it was later determined it was due to lack of spares. Pakistan was under the Pressler amendment sanctions back then.

Here are some of the choices available by Airbus Military or Embraer. My personal choice would be the A319 MPA as it would be an excellent counter to the Boeing 737, P-8 Poseidon that the IN is getting.

Chile accepts first C-295 for anti-submarine role

C-295

A-319

Embraer Defense Systems

 

[fatman17]

PAK NAVY Viable Replacement of Fokker F27-200 and Breguet Atlantique I

There are 7 Fokker F27-200 in Pak Navy for a long time and so the 2 Berguet Atlantique I, being in Service with Pak Navy close to 30 years.
Although we know that Pakistan has an agreement in place to purchase 7 more P-3C Orion apart from the 7 going under or has been upgraded, would they replace the above mentioned maritime surveillance and anti-submarine warfare aircrafts or Is there any plans in place for their replacement apart from those 7 on order.
According to US Navy They’ve some 150 or so P-3C Orion variants in long term storage and USN plans to reduce the number to 130.
Would Pakistan be looking to procure 7-10 more under its EDA or excess defense articles, and bring them on par with current levels through MLU to extend P-3 airframe flight restrictions and provides 15,000 additional flight hours.

Please Discuss….(If I'm mistaken on any account do correct me)

total no of P-3C in PN inventory will be 9 (after full delivery) which is adequate. the Atlantiques hardly do any flying these days. if memory serves me right only 1 a/c is in service. the F-27s have a 'dual role' as MPA and transport aircraft.

 

[fatman17]

Breguet
Br.1150 Atlantic
Delivered;6
Current;1
Lost;1
Storage;4

Fokker
F-27-200MPA Friendship
Delivered; 5
Current; 5
- Note: A 5th aircraft was added to the inventory on 11th April 2008; formerly operated by Pakistan International Airlines in passenger configuration, this has now been upgraded to fulfill the maritime patrol task.

F-27-400M Troopship
Delivered; 1
Current; 1

AFI

 

[Mughal-Prince]

What about Kawasaki P1 does it suits our doctrine ...

Kawasaki P-1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Replacement of F-27 and Atlatique could be ATR 72 as we are already using it with PIA (commonness) and Turkey have similar program from Thales ... As for MPA we are also following Meltem II ... Turkey is investing in Meltem III as well, its an ASW system with same platform ... I think it may work for us as well ...

$219M for 10 Turkish ASW Aircraft / XAIRFORCES NEWS

Regarding A319 its a gr8 choice but still can we do some similar thing with China C919 although its to early to say any thing as its not even flown for the first time but we can have 2 A319 then later work out something ... You know what I mean ...

Sir Fat Man can you please shed some light ... Thanks

 

[Penguin]

PN needs to look at UAVs as well, not just MPAs. A hybrid force of MMA and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV’s) would most effectively provide the required capabilities. With notional changes to a typical Patrol Squadron’s aircraft composition of 9 aircraft, to perhaps 7 aircraft and the utilization of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV’s) which are permanently forward deployed, a Navy would quite easily increase its ISR capability, while simultaneously maintaining its ASW capability. See e.g. http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA493115

This I find an interesting airframe option (harking back to the days of the PBYs like the Catalina)
Beriev - A-40 amphibious aircraft
Beriev Be-200 - amphibian

Pics source: Beriev - Photos 1998-2003

 

[fatman17]

What about Kawasaki P1 does it suits our doctrine ...

Kawasaki P-1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Replacement of F-27 and Atlatique could be ATR 72 as we are already using it with PIA (commonness) and Turkey have similar program from Thales ... As for MPA we are also following Meltem II ... Turkey is investing in Meltem III as well, its an ASW system with same platform ... I think it may work for us as well ...

$219M for 10 Turkish ASW Aircraft / XAIRFORCES NEWS

Regarding A319 its a gr8 choice but still can we do some similar thing with China C919 although its to early to say any thing as its not even flown for the first time but we can have 2 A319 then later work out something ... You know what I mean ...

Sir Fat Man can you please shed some light ... Thanks

PIA uses the smaller ATR-42. there is no news AFAIK regarding this platform

 

[Mughal-Prince]

PIA uses the smaller ATR-42. there is no news AFAIK regarding this platform

Well sir please check this link ...

http://www.xairforces.com/newsd.asp?newsid=285&newst=4

 

[razgriz19]

i think CASA C-295 would be the best choice as PAF already operates a smilar aircraft CN-235!
i think it would be much cost effective as the other variant uses quite similar parts...

navy version!

 

[SQ8]

the best option is buy more Orions.. but the current number is sufficient to cover for the Atlantique's phase out..
What is needed is the replacement for the F-27..
and that can come in the form of the Saab 2000 MPA.. or one based on the ATR.. to keep commonality with local operators.

 

[razgriz19]

i dont think saab 2000 would be a good idea...
the production is closed for that aircraft and so we would get used aircrafts, however ATR would be a good choice...

 

[muse]

Once again, such an important element such as early warning, surveillance, electronic collection and counter measures, command and control will reside in assets prone to US and Western sanctions regime -- I really don't know what the US and West have to do for Pakistanis to seriously understand that US and West is no friend of Pakistan, in fact cannot be a friend - really I don't know what ti would take.

 

[ANG]

Hi, I agree with Mr. Muse. The key behind any decision by the PN, PAF, or PA for that matter is immunity to sanctions. The PN was burned once already with the P-3s. It also cost them a crash and the lives of 21 PN personnel back in the 90s. The crash was deemed a technical fault, but probably due to a lack of spares, caused by the Pressler Ammendment.

Buying these current P-3s, which are excess defense articles, is cheap, but not the smartest idea. However, these are my personal thoughts though...

 

[fatman17]

all the various options being considered may not be fully 'indigeneous' - they all use components made either in the US or EU - and finally the weapons systems are mostly US. a survey of their specs would confirm this assumption. i wld be highly surprised if they are 100% local.

 

[fatman17]

Well sir please check this link ...

$219M for 10 Turkish ASW Aircraft / XAIRFORCES NEWS

The Thales solution is based on Amascos (Airborne Maritime Situation and COntrol System). The system is designed around a tactical command subsystem with a full range of latest-generation Thales sensors (radar, ESM and acoustic) and communication systems.

In addition to the Meltem programme, Amascos has been chosen by the Indonesian, Japanese, Pakistani and Malaysian forces

this is a control system which is available on the F-27MPA. this dosnt mean PN is opting for the ATR-72