Vande Mataram un-Islamic:Says Imam Council

[Brisingr]

First Published : 14 Nov 2009 06:53:59 AM ISTLast Updated :

THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: The state committee of the All-India Imam Council has stated that the Muslims could not chant Vande Mataram as it was un-Islamic.


Imam Council state president Karamana Ashraf Moulavi, state general secretary Arshad Muhammad Nadvi and district secretary Sharafudeen Moulavi told a news conference here on Friday that “for Muslims, eulogising the mother land cannot be accepted as it is ‘Allah’, who deserve veneration”. They said that all the Islamic scholars had said that chanting Vande Mataram was un-Islamic. When pointed out that many Islamic organisations and scholars have come out in the open to defy the fatwa, issued by the Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind against the rendition of the Vande Mataram, they said that they had love for the country. But they cannot recite the national song as it is anti-Islamic.

They said that the Imam Council would organise a campaign against the propaganda that an outfit called ‘Love jihad’ was operating in the State. They said that the DGP had told the High Court that there was no such organisation working in the State for converting girls to Islam through love marriages. But the Court is not apparently satisfied over the affidavit. They alleged that organisations, like Sangh Parivar, were behind the propaganda.




Why o why India need to face this nonsence all the time. This issue was debated enough and settled long ago. Such things happen because India is being too much secular??India had declared herself as a secular country and guaranteed the freedom to practice one's chosen religion, the right for speech, etc. So the citizens claim their rights available under the constitution. Is this the premiry cause for all our problems??
Normally, the minority would not like to outsmart the majority community in order to preserve the harmony and peaceful coexistence. But in India, too much minority appeasement measures by vote bank politicians in particular, had encouraged the minorities to boldly antagonise the majority and hurt their sentiments.

Pakistan,Indonesia,Bangladesh,Malaysia are declared Islamic countires. SriLanka no more a secular rather a sinhalese country. If these tiny nations have the guts to dedicate their entire nation to their majority community why not India declare herself an Hindu nation??? Well the question is trouble with 131,213,000 muslims???

Should we not follow the srilankan path??? I remember a history here.


The Lion Flag of the Sri Lankan state is seen as a symbol of oppression by the Eezham Tamils. They rejected it long back for the explicit communal symbolism in it, pointing out that the lion in the flag, taken as a symbol of the Sinhala people according to their myths, holding a sword against 'minorities' represented by the colour stripes in the flag, was a deliberately designed insult to Tamils and Muslims.
What happened to them later???Those who dont obey the nationalistic sentiments are to be crushed and thats what they did to them.
Why should’nt India do the same thing to the Indian muslims if they hurt the national sentiments??? Pakistan and China obviously going to help us to accomplish the goal!! Wont you guys???

 

[MilesTogo]

Devil's Advocate: Salman Khurshid on Vande Mataram

Karan Thapar: Are you proud to sing Vande Mataram?

Salman Khurshid: Absolutely. I am not only proud but I'm committed and consider it my obligation. I consider it my political obligation because my leaders--Maulana Azad and Pandit Jawarhar Lal Nehru--sat together and set to rest whatever questions there were about Vande Mataram, the standards of Vande Mataram that people were objecting to.

Karan Thapar: In which case, given that you sing it with in pride--and given that the controversies that were set to rest by Maulana Azad and Pandit Jawarhar Lal Nehru, almost 50 years ago--I repeat my original question, can you today criticise and condemn the Jamiat-e Ulema resolution?

Salman Khurshid: When you say it is unnecessary, that is counter productive and is that not criticism.

Karan Thapar: Those are euphemisms. Why don't you say up in front I condemn that resolution?

Salman Khurshid: No, no, I condemn anything that is wrong. I think it is unnecessary, it is unacceptable. I think for an organisation as big as the Jamiat-e Ulama Hind, with all the eminent people it has, for me to use harsh words does make no sense. I am saying it's unacceptable, it's counter productive; it is not good for our society, it is not good for India, and it is not good for Muslims.

 

[Brisingr]

Why is ‘Vande mataram’ issue being reopened: Salman Khurshid

Hyderabad, Nov 5 (IANS) Union Minister of State for Minority Affairs Salman Khurshid Thursday criticised the endorsement of a fatwa against the singing of “Vande mataram” by Muslims, saying some people were trying to create problems by raising the issue again.
“Does this country not have enough problems that some people want to create more problems? I don’t know why this issue is being reopened,” he told reporters here.

The clerics’ body Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind at its national convention at Deoband this week had endorsed an earlier fatwa issued by Islamic seminary Dar-ul-Uloom Deoband.

Khurshid said the issue was resolved over 50 years ago by treating some stanzas of the song as the national song. He said there was no need to take a fresh look after every 50 years.

“During the independence movement, all national leaders, including leaders of the Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind Hind sat together and resolved that some stanzas of ‘Vande mataram’ would be treated as the national song and would be sung voluntarily. Nobody was forced to sing it and this is something which was there in the resolutions of both Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind and the Congress party,” he said.

“People had faith in the song. It inspired people. It was not treated as a song of one particular religion. It was treated as part of India’s ethos and part of the independence movement. I don’t know why this issue is being raised again,” he said.

“Fifty years ago it was agreed that two stanzas will be sung and that is what we sing today. There are two to three other stanzas that are not sung. Somebody has a problem with them is a hypothetical question because we have taken only two stanzas and this was done by our ancestors, freedom fighters and national leaders, including Muslim leaders,” he said to another query.

He defended Home Minister P. Chidambaram addressing the Jamiat convention saying he could not be blamed for the resolution passed during the meeting after he had left it.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Why o why India need to face this nonsence all the time. This issue was debated enough and settled long ago. Such things happen because India is being too much secular??India had declared herself as a secular country and guaranteed the freedom to practice one's chosen religion, the right for speech, etc. So the citizens claim their rights available under the constitution. Is this the premiry cause for all our problems??
Normally, the minority would not like to outsmart the majority community in order to preserve the harmony and peaceful coexistence. But in India, too much minority appeasement measures by vote bank politicians in particular, had encouraged the minorities to boldly antagonise the majority and hurt their sentiments.

Pakistan,Indonesia,Bangladesh,Malaysia are declared Islamic countires. SriLanka no more a secular rather a sinhalese country. If these tiny nations have the guts to dedicate their entire nation to their majority community why not India declare herself an Hindu nation??? Well the question is trouble with 131,213,000 muslims???

Should we not follow the srilankan path??? I remember a history here.


The Lion Flag of the Sri Lankan state is seen as a symbol of oppression by the Eezham Tamils. They rejected it long back for the explicit communal symbolism in it, pointing out that the lion in the flag, taken as a symbol of the Sinhala people according to their myths, holding a sword against 'minorities' represented by the colour stripes in the flag, was a deliberately designed insult to Tamils and Muslims.
What happened to them later???Those who dont obey the nationalistic sentiments are to be crushed and thats what they did to them.
Why should’nt India do the same thing to the Indian muslims if they hurt the national sentiments??? Pakistan and China obviously going to help us to accomplish the goal!! Wont you guys???

The issue of the fatwa was discussed in another thread under this theme.

India is not and will never be a Hindu state. For anybody advocating that it is a pie in the sky dream. Mauritius is more of a Hindu state than India will ever be. I tend to think of India as being a homeland for anybody of Indian origin irrespective of religion. A sizeable portion of Indians globally and in India are now members of other religions and to enforce a Hindu state in India will be impractical. Anyway the leading party of India and its main opposition woo voters from all spectrums and all religions.

 

[courageneverdies]

I dare to deny to Brisingr. For what Indians claim, India is a country for all. So I guess if there is any uncertainity in Indian Muslims that should and I think must be resolved by the Indian Govt.

I know its purely an internal matter of India but just wanted to share my opinion, though lacks value.

KIT Over n Out

 

[PlanetWarrior]

I dare to deny to Brisingr. For what Indians claim, India is a country for all. So I guess if there is any uncertainity in Indian Muslims that should and I think must be resolved by the Indian Govt.

I know its purely an internal matter of India but just wanted to share my opinion, though lacks value.

KIT Over n Out

I think that Indian minority religion citizens (Muslims etc) lost any uneasiness when they saw the fall of Hindu right wing parties such as RSS and VHP etc. Hindus by nature are not dominating and generally accept other religions easily. Times are sad when extremists mob up poorer Hindus to run a rampage in India. However the fact that we have a Sikh PM and a White Catholic leader of the governing party at the moment shows you what majority Hindus think of India being a Hindu state. In the past we had a Muslim President as well. As I said in another thread..dont be surprised to awake one morning to hear a Muslim Prime Minister of India telling Pakistan and China to watch themselves or to face India's wrath

 

[Brisingr]

The issue of the fatwa was discussed in another thread under this theme.

India is not and will never be a Hindu state. For anybody advocating that it is a pie in the sky dream. Mauritius is more of a Hindu state than India will ever be. I tend to think of India as being a homeland for anybody of Indian origin irrespective of religion. A sizeable portion of Indians globally and in India are now members of other religions and to enforce a Hindu state in India will be impractical. Anyway the leading party of India and its main opposition woo voters from all spectrums and all religions.

At present there are more then 100 muslim nations and UN is dominated by these nations.
There is no voice when human rights of hindus are voilated
Your words may be wise and please all world community but allowing this so called secularism is slowly destabilising India and may one day destroy the fabric of the nation and splinter it into many pieces.
Have you ever been to kashmir?? When you ever have a chance take a glance on the roof tops of those houses which bore pakistani flags...and we cant do a **** about it so far....

For opening the eyes of Hindus- A tribute

Following are the extracts/ personal experieces of a Soldier from his diary


"Who says there is no war? The 40% of the country is under Insurgency.. ... We have lost more men in these operations than wars.... Its is dangerous situation ......that even in war like situation the soldiers are being humiliated.. .... Almost 750 officers and men have been court Martial for human rights violations in last 6-7 years? But how many terrorist have been punished by our courts? NIL NIL NIL......... ......... ........why? the Political establishment is with whom? we die fighting the enemies of the nation and we also go to jails for taking the burden of defending the country..... .. My findings in north east when i was commanding the battallions were shocking? 1. No govt in North East can last without the support of the terrorists. 2. Once in a year the money is paid by the terrorists to the Judges of the High Courts in Guwahati,,, 3. The other governing bodies in any case are subdued.... 4. Insurgency has become an industry and every one including the politicians have the stakes in it.... Who wants to solve the insurgency?? ?????? Only ARMY and at what cost? Now you know why we have always been ruled by the foreign invaders? read our history..... . we are destined to become slaves again....... ......... ....... unless we rise to reinstate the democratic institution in the country again......as per the aspirations of our freedom fighters.... ...may be we have launch another struggle for true governance? Let us rise and shake the enemies within FIRST....... ...and save the country."..

All these happen because we tolerate a lot of nonsence in our country by the name of secularism. This scum head politicens only cponcerned about their vote banks and minorities dare to destabilise our entire nation now.

 

[EjazR]

@Bisinger

And yet the number of muslim civilians killed are far far more than hindus. Only Iraq or Afghanistan is enough. So whats the use of having "100 muslim" countries whatever that means. Time to wake up from your fantasy. If it wasn't for the secular nature of Indian society, no offense to Pakistanis, but we would have basically a Hindu version of a Pakistani state and you can see where that would have led us.

The only reason why India is successful is BECAUSE it is a secular society, not because it is enforced but because the majority of the people want it and are smart enough to see its benefits. Good governance and security are different from secularism. Don't confuse the two. If you want to fight against corruption and lack of police reforms that directly impacts our security, all Indians irrespective of caste or creed will support it but advocating nationalism using only one religion or ethnicity/language will only lead to more instability.

 

[KillBill]

At present there are more then 100 muslim nations and UN is dominated by these nations.
There is no voice when human rights of hindus are voilated
Your words may be wise and please all world community but allowing this so called secularism is slowly destabilising India and may one day destroy the fabric of the nation and splinter it into many pieces.
Have you ever been to kashmir?? When you ever have a chance take a glance on the roof tops of those houses which bore pakistani flags...and we cant do a **** about it so far....

For opening the eyes of Hindus- A tribute

Following are the extracts/ personal experieces of a Soldier from his diary


"Who says there is no war? The 40% of the country is under Insurgency.. ... We have lost more men in these operations than wars.... Its is dangerous situation ......that even in war like situation the soldiers are being humiliated.. .... Almost 750 officers and men have been court Martial for human rights violations in last 6-7 years? But how many terrorist have been punished by our courts? NIL NIL NIL......... ......... ........why? the Political establishment is with whom? we die fighting the enemies of the nation and we also go to jails for taking the burden of defending the country..... .. My findings in north east when i was commanding the battallions were shocking? 1. No govt in North East can last without the support of the terrorists. 2. Once in a year the money is paid by the terrorists to the Judges of the High Courts in Guwahati,,, 3. The other governing bodies in any case are subdued.... 4. Insurgency has become an industry and every one including the politicians have the stakes in it.... Who wants to solve the insurgency?? ?????? Only ARMY and at what cost? Now you know why we have always been ruled by the foreign invaders? read our history..... . we are destined to become slaves again....... ......... ....... unless we rise to reinstate the democratic institution in the country again......as per the aspirations of our freedom fighters.... ...may be we have launch another struggle for true governance? Let us rise and shake the enemies within FIRST....... ...and save the country."..

All these happen because we tolerate a lot of nonsence in our country by the name of secularism. This scum head politicens only cponcerned about their vote banks and minorities dare to destabilise our entire nation now.

I for One wont ever dream to have India as a Hindu Nation. Our beauty is in diversity. And there are so many people from different religion in so many important positions. Do you think a Muslim soldier will think twice before firing at an enemy just because he may be another muslim? Common, We love this beautiful mixture.

Again, One more small thing, Do you even know the meaning of Hinduism ( sanatan dharma) ? It means all religions are same.....

So if you consider yourself Hindu then dont ever think of Muslims or Chirstians or Sikhs or any other as something different.

 

[Spring Onion]

I think we have this thread in details for this topic. so better merg it there

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...s/38143-accept-vande-mataram-go-pakistan.html

 

[Rajkumar]

i am not in favor of "hindu" india as a state. issuing a fatwa against national song is totally unconstitutional. india is secular and gives every body right to practice religion but people have duties too towards country. you can have rights but not on the expanse of duties. india gives right of expression and practice religion doesn't mean you can use that right against constitution. if you want to have rights you should follow your duties first other wise there is no place in india for such people.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

I think we have this thread in details for this topic. so better merg it there

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...s/38143-accept-vande-mataram-go-pakistan.html

I suggest that this thread remains unmerged. It discusses an issue completely new

 

[PlanetWarrior]

At present there are more then 100 muslim nations and UN is dominated by these nations.
There is no voice when human rights of hindus are voilated
Your words may be wise and please all world community but allowing this so called secularism is slowly destabilising India and may one day destroy the fabric of the nation and splinter it into many pieces.
Have you ever been to kashmir?? When you ever have a chance take a glance on the roof tops of those houses which bore pakistani flags...and we cant do a **** about it so far....

For opening the eyes of Hindus- A tribute

Following are the extracts/ personal experieces of a Soldier from his diary


"Who says there is no war? The 40% of the country is under Insurgency.. ... We have lost more men in these operations than wars.... Its is dangerous situation ......that even in war like situation the soldiers are being humiliated.. .... Almost 750 officers and men have been court Martial for human rights violations in last 6-7 years? But how many terrorist have been punished by our courts? NIL NIL NIL......... ......... ........why? the Political establishment is with whom? we die fighting the enemies of the nation and we also go to jails for taking the burden of defending the country..... .. My findings in north east when i was commanding the battallions were shocking? 1. No govt in North East can last without the support of the terrorists. 2. Once in a year the money is paid by the terrorists to the Judges of the High Courts in Guwahati,,, 3. The other governing bodies in any case are subdued.... 4. Insurgency has become an industry and every one including the politicians have the stakes in it.... Who wants to solve the insurgency?? ?????? Only ARMY and at what cost? Now you know why we have always been ruled by the foreign invaders? read our history..... . we are destined to become slaves again....... ......... ....... unless we rise to reinstate the democratic institution in the country again......as per the aspirations of our freedom fighters.... ...may be we have launch another struggle for true governance? Let us rise and shake the enemies within FIRST....... ...and save the country."..

All these happen because we tolerate a lot of nonsence in our country by the name of secularism. This scum head politicens only cponcerned about their vote banks and minorities dare to destabilise our entire nation now.

Having read your post above then may I remind you that to make India a Hindu state will in all fairness require India to ensure that all her minorities (Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists etc ) be given autonomous or independent states of their own? That would mean further dividing India and justifying what the founders of Pakistan always accused Hindus in India of. Your suggestion is what India and 90% of her people have strongly opposed. It is as much the land of Indian minorities as it is ours and they must be given special protection because they are minorities.

As for the Kashmir it is a land divided. Even in Indian Kashmir there are some people who oppose Indian occupation but mostly there is an acceptance of being part of India. I am still of the view that majority Muslim populated Kashmir should either be given independence or be given to Pakistan. Who needs the headache anyway and what are the real benefits of holding onto something which is of little or no value to India. But my view on Kashmir comprises just 2% of all Indian view

India will be ruled by anybody who holds an Indian passport and citizenship. Soldiers who misbehave in Kashmir must be punished. They belong to a professional army and if they commit atrocities against Kashmiris who regarded as part of India then they must be punished. They must not compare themselves to the animals who sneak in to cause mayhem in Kashmir. They are there to protect and serve whilst the pigs who sneak in are there to cause mayhem and destruction.

 

[Brisingr]

Having read your post above then may I remind you that to make India a Hindu state will in all fairness require India to ensure that all her minorities (Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists etc ) be given autonomous or independent states of their own? That would mean further dividing India and justifying what the founders of Pakistan always accused Hindus in India of. Your suggestion is what India and 90% of her people have strongly opposed. It is as much the land of Indian minorities as it is ours and they must be given special protection because they are minorities.

As for the Kashmir it is a land divided. Even in Indian Kashmir there are some people who oppose Indian occupation but mostly there is an acceptance of being part of India. I am still of the view that majority Muslim populated Kashmir should either be given independence or be given to Pakistan. Who needs the headache anyway and what are the real benefits of holding onto something which is of little or no value to India. But my view on Kashmir comprises just 2% of all Indian view

India will be ruled by anybody who holds an Indian passport and citizenship. Soldiers who misbehave in Kashmir must be punished. They belong to a professional army and if they commit atrocities against Kashmiris who regarded as part of India then they must be punished. They must not compare themselves to the animals who sneak in to cause mayhem in Kashmir. They are there to protect and serve whilst the pigs who sneak in are there to cause mayhem and destruction.

Did i ever mentioned India to be divided. Never ever think about it in your dream. Every true Indian wont leave a centimeter square of land to others and would give his last drop of blood to protect it. Your suggestion of leaving Kashmir is so so so absurd and its my view.If you have head ace would you dare chop off your head rather think of curing it???If you keep on giving land to those who demand, protest and declare them independent state then after a few years you wont see India here .Is this what you want?? I would urge you not to repeat this suggestion again.

I've claearly mentioned in my earlier post how to deal with the misbehaving.

Should we not follow the srilankan path??? I remember a history here.


The Lion Flag of the Sri Lankan state is seen as a symbol of oppression by the Eezham Tamils. They rejected it long back for the explicit communal symbolism in it, pointing out that the lion in the flag, taken as a symbol of the Sinhala people according to their myths, holding a sword against 'minorities' represented by the colour stripes in the flag, was a deliberately designed insult to Tamils and Muslims.
What happened to them later??? Those who dont obey the nationalistic sentiments are to be crushed and thats what they did to them.
Why should’nt India do the same thing to the Indian muslims if they hurt the national sentiments??? Pakistan and China obviously going to help us to accomplish the goal!! Wont you guys??? .

I'm not against any minorities here. Who ever tries to break the sovereignty of this country must be dealt in the way it should be. Here i leave no exception for ShivSena or Imam Council or any Christian religious groups.

I’m seeing such unbiased opinions from bloggers from India. Not only in this forum…you visit any forum across the geography you sure to find Indians preaching peace while the others try to bully us with their radical thoughts. Even though I’m proud to have you guys as a part of my society still I also have this strange doubt that we Hindus …are we too much tolerant?? Are we too much polite?? Is our dharma still holds good in this era?? Should we not try to change a bit and make it to fit to this present world?? Darwin long before suggested the survival of the fittest theory. Sould’nt we not make our self fit for this present world??

 

[Kavin]

…are we too much tolerant?? Are we too much polite?? Is our dharma still holds good in this era?? Should we not try to change a bit and make it to fit to this present world?? Darwin long before suggested the survival of the fittest theory. Sould’nt we not make our self fit for this present world??

In the animal world we have seen that the vast majority of species live in societies, and that they find in association the best arms for the struggle for life: understood, of course, in its wide Darwinian sense – not as a struggle for the sheer means of existence, but as a struggle against all natural conditions unfavourable to the species. The animal species, in which individual struggle has been reduced to its narrowest limits, and the practice of mutual aid has attained the greatest development, are invariably the most numerous, the most prosperous, and the most open to further progress.

- Russian anarchist Peter Kropotkin on the concept of "survival of the fittest"