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USAFE F-16s Train With Romania's MiG-21 Lancers During Dacian Warhawk

Gabriel92

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@flamer84 Do you guys plan to replace them ? By F16s ? You bought F16s from Portugal,probably a second batch ?

As part of America's continued initiative to show greater military readiness and fighting capability in Europe in order to reassure NATO allies and deter Russian aggression in the region, USAFE has sent six of its F-16CJs from Germany to train with some of the oldest jets in NATO, Romania's ancient MiG-21 Lancers.


Reading this you are probably taken aback by the fact that a NATO member is still flying MiG-21s. Although the MiG-21's inferior in pretty much every way to their modern 4th generation fighter counterparts, Romania's MiG-21s are some of the most advanced versions of the type ever conceived.

c148yzsvvvco9vber4wu.jpg


Because of limited funding, Romania has not been able to purchase a western fighter for its air policing mission, yet alone for its ground attack mission requirements. In order to meet NATO standards, they put their best MiG-21 Fishbed models through a deep upgrade program with the help of Israeli aerospace defense contractors. What they ended up with was a fairly capable basic fighter platform at a bargain basement price, not just when it came to its acquisition cost but also its operational cost as well.

cepapnvn74myxm4kxwqp.jpg


The Lancer upgrade program saw some 108 MiG-21s receive western standard navigation suites for bad weather and night flying, a radar warning receiver and self defense suite, a HOTAS control setup for improved control ergonomics, an advanced helmet mounted display, a new weapons control interface and a partial 'glass' cockpit. The jets could also use Israeli-built weapons such as the Python series of air-to-air missiles and an assortment of laser guided bombs. The Lancer-A variant is used for ground attack and can carry the Rafael LITENING targeting pod, while the Lancer-C version is used for point air defense and carries the modular Elta EL/M 2032 pulse doppler radar within its air intake spike.

pawbwzjxmfrnn8n3oxut.jpg


Although 108 jets were upgraded, only about three dozen remain in service with Romania today and many parts have been cannibalized from other airframes in order to keep the fleet's readiness high. These remaining aircraft will be partially replaced starting later this year, with used F-16AM MLU Vipers coming from Portugal. As more used F-16s are bought, they will eventually replace Romania's entire MiG-21 Lancer fleet in full.

c7a4oepewi2fbcglpsdt.jpg


So at first glance, what clearly appears to be a readiness drill and show of force opportunity for the USAFE and the Romanian Air Force is also a highly valuable and unique training opportunity due to the highly dissimilar fighter aircraft involved. On one hand, you have Romanian MiG-21 Lancer pilots who get a great opportunity to learn about their new (to them) fighter first hand and to USAF F-16CJ pilots get to fly with and against one of the most legendary fighters of all time, the MiG-21. Additionally, there are not just any MiG-21s, but they are the most potent form of the jet ever that are being flown by some of the most experienced MiG-21 drivers in the world.

Lt. Col. David Berkland, the 480th Fighter Squadron commander describes this unique opportunity in his own words:

"We just had a once-in-a-life-time opportunity to fly against the Romanian MiG-21 fighter pilots today. Hopefully it was just as rewarding for the Romanian pilots... We all have a lot of learning to do. We debriefed and talked about what we saw, what we did and what we could have done better in fighter pilot fashion — always trying to make each other better."

rliesuvw6brwgncwv5vr.jpg


USAFE crews had to come to Romania in advance to setup a temporary emergency arresting gear for the F-16CJ to use should they have an in-flight emergency such as a hydraulic failure.

It truly is dissimilar air combat training (DACT) at its best and similarly upgraded MiG-21s are known to be very tricky aircraft to fight against when flown by highly trained pilots using non-traditional tactics. During the Cope India air warfare exercises of the last decade that pitted USAF F-15Cs against a wide array of Indian Air Force aircraft, including the Su-30MKI, it was the similarly upgraded MiG-21 Bisons, with their small radar cross-section, their Israeli-built jamming pods and their helmet mounted sights tied to high-off boresight heat seeking missiles that gave Eagle crews the worst time.

v4kwsz55ef85yetmqsbz.jpg


Beyond aerial jousting high in the skies over Campia Turzii, Romania, these bi-national exercises are meant to strengthen the ties between the two militarizes by having them work side-by-side with one another. For every jet temporarily deployed there are literally dozens of ground support folks, from crew chiefs to administrative personnel, who get the opportunity to make new friends and learn from how a unique NATO ally does its air combat business on a shoe-string budget.

Romanian air force Col. Marious Oatu, an air base commander stated:

"I believe the next two weeks will be a great opportunity, not only to increase our efficiency, but mostly to tighten up the bonds between the U.S. and Romanian air force."

tgjhtmduubz7eqyn8oas.jpg


Beyond international goodwill and what are sure to be some pretty interesting aerial engagements, the 480th Fighter Squadron's trip to Romania, which is the nation located closest to Russia's Crimea who are also holding its own air combat drills this week, is all about being able to fight together should it ever come to that. Considering how stretched America's ever shrinking air power fleet is, and how small the USAFE's in situ fighter contingent has become over the last 25 years, understanding even the diminutive MiG-21 Lancer's capabilities, and putting them to work during a time of crisis would be crucial.

Lt. Col. David Berkland states:


"It's an honor to be here and train side-by-side with the Romanians... We hope by being here we can increase the cooperation between our countries and NATO partners and be able to provide increased security in the Eastern Europe region."

Under pressure from the current threat posture of its nearby Black Sea neighbor, Russia, Romania's hybrid eastern block fighter fleet will finally give way to a modern western fighter aircraft soon. Which means one less operator of the MiG-21 internationally, an aircraft that has served and remained relevant for over 50 years. And with its overdue retirement, US fighter aircraft will only have two NATO partners left with MiG-21s, which are Bulgaria and Croatia, and neither of those forces feature the capabilities of the Romania's Lancers.


ohnfagwrkw0ebhwz8knx.jpg


USAFE F-16s Train With Romania's MiG-21 Lancers During Dacian Warhawk
 
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@Nihonjin1051 @AMDR @Peter C @C130 @DrawingDead @F-22Raptor @KAL-EL @Víðarr

@flamer84 Do you guys plan to replace them ? By F16s ? You bought F16s from Portugal,probably a second batch ?

As part of America's continued initiative to show greater military readiness and fighting capability in Europe in order to reassure NATO allies and deter Russian aggression in the region, USAFE has sent six of its F-16CJs from Germany to train with some of the oldest jets in NATO, Romania's ancient MiG-21 Lancers.


Reading this you are probably taken aback by the fact that a NATO member is still flying MiG-21s. Although the MiG-21's inferior in pretty much every way to their modern 4th generation fighter counterparts, Romania's MiG-21s are some of the most advanced versions of the type ever conceived.

c148yzsvvvco9vber4wu.jpg


Because of limited funding, Romania has not been able to purchase a western fighter for its air policing mission, yet alone for its ground attack mission requirements. In order to meet NATO standards, they put their best MiG-21 Fishbed models through a deep upgrade program with the help of Israeli aerospace defense contractors. What they ended up with was a fairly capable basic fighter platform at a bargain basement price, not just when it came to its acquisition cost but also its operational cost as well.

cepapnvn74myxm4kxwqp.jpg


The Lancer upgrade program saw some 108 MiG-21s receive western standard navigation suites for bad weather and night flying, a radar warning receiver and self defense suite, a HOTAS control setup for improved control ergonomics, an advanced helmet mounted display, a new weapons control interface and a partial 'glass' cockpit. The jets could also use Israeli-built weapons such as the Python series of air-to-air missiles and an assortment of laser guided bombs. The Lancer-A variant is used for ground attack and can carry the Rafael LITENING targeting pod, while the Lancer-C version is used for point air defense and carries the modular Elta EL/M 2032 pulse doppler radar within its air intake spike.

pawbwzjxmfrnn8n3oxut.jpg


Although 108 jets were upgraded, only about three dozen remain in service with Romania today and many parts have been cannibalized from other airframes in order to keep the fleet's readiness high. These remaining aircraft will be partially replaced starting later this year, with used F-16AM MLU Vipers coming from Portugal. As more used F-16s are bought, they will eventually replace Romania's entire MiG-21 Lancer fleet in full.

c7a4oepewi2fbcglpsdt.jpg


So at first glance, what clearly appears to be a readiness drill and show of force opportunity for the USAFE and the Romanian Air Force is also a highly valuable and unique training opportunity due to the highly dissimilar fighter aircraft involved. On one hand, you have Romanian MiG-21 Lancer pilots who get a great opportunity to learn about their new (to them) fighter first hand and to USAF F-16CJ pilots get to fly with and against one of the most legendary fighters of all time, the MiG-21. Additionally, there are not just any MiG-21s, but they are the most potent form of the jet ever that are being flown by some of the most experienced MiG-21 drivers in the world.

Lt. Col. David Berkland, the 480th Fighter Squadron commander describes this unique opportunity in his own words:



rliesuvw6brwgncwv5vr.jpg


USAFE crews had to come to Romania in advance to setup a temporary emergency arresting gear for the F-16CJ to use should they have an in-flight emergency such as a hydraulic failure.

It truly is dissimilar air combat training (DACT) at its best and similarly upgraded MiG-21s are known to be very tricky aircraft to fight against when flown by highly trained pilots using non-traditional tactics. During the Cope India air warfare exercises of the last decade that pitted USAF F-15Cs against a wide array of Indian Air Force aircraft, including the Su-30MKI, it was the similarly upgraded MiG-21 Bisons, with their small radar cross-section, their Israeli-built jamming pods and their helmet mounted sights tied to high-off boresight heat seeking missiles that gave Eagle crews the worst time.

v4kwsz55ef85yetmqsbz.jpg


Beyond aerial jousting high in the skies over Campia Turzii, Romania, these bi-national exercises are meant to strengthen the ties between the two militarizes by having them work side-by-side with one another. For every jet temporarily deployed there are literally dozens of ground support folks, from crew chiefs to administrative personnel, who get the opportunity to make new friends and learn from how a unique NATO ally does its air combat business on a shoe-string budget.

Romanian air force Col. Marious Oatu, an air base commander stated:



tgjhtmduubz7eqyn8oas.jpg


Beyond international goodwill and what are sure to be some pretty interesting aerial engagements, the 480th Fighter Squadron's trip to Romania, which is the nation located closest to Russia's Crimea who are also holding its own air combat drills this week, is all about being able to fight together should it ever come to that. Considering how stretched America's ever shrinking air power fleet is, and how small the USAFE's in situ fighter contingent has become over the last 25 years, understanding even the diminutive MiG-21 Lancer's capabilities, and putting them to work during a time of crisis would be crucial.

Lt. Col. David Berkland states:




Under pressure from the current threat posture of its nearby Black Sea neighbor, Russia, Romania's hybrid eastern block fighter fleet will finally give way to a modern western fighter aircraft soon. Which means one less operator of the MiG-21 internationally, an aircraft that has served and remained relevant for over 50 years. And with its overdue retirement, US fighter aircraft will only have two NATO partners left with MiG-21s, which are Bulgaria and Croatia, and neither of those forces feature the capabilities of the Romania's Lancers.


ohnfagwrkw0ebhwz8knx.jpg


USAFE F-16s Train With Romania's MiG-21 Lancers During Dacian Warhawk

I see you're a fan of Foxtrotalpha too:cheers::

I hope these get replaced, MiG-21 sucks!!! At one point Romania had an Israeli-modified program going called MiG-29 Sniper; it was too expensive:(

Oh well, the JAS-39 is available:yahoo:


MiG-29 Sniper - looked amazing!!!
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1024px-MiG-29_Sniper_in_Bucharest.JPG


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I swear Russia is like a NATO PR manager. They scared the sh*t out of E.Europe, revived NATOs relevance, and increased their military cooperation which then leads to things like this and "Atlantic Resolve":partay:

Thanks Russia!
 
I met a former Romanian Air Force maintenance crew member, he said the only problem with these hunka junks is their low, extremely low air time. From engine start to runway, these Migs go through their center line tanks!
 
I met a former Romanian Air Force maintenance crew member, he said the only problem with these hunka junks is their low, extremely low air time. From engine start to runway, these Migs go through their center line tanks!


Yep,that's why we're down to 36 flying Migs,from 108.We've been. "canibalising" spare parts like mad men,especially the engines.Russia refused to give spare parts because we've modernised them without their consent and their envolevement,they were calling these "pirat Migs".


@Gabriel92 Yes,just a few days ago the PM oficially stated that this year a second batch of F16's will be bought and that they're searching for options-translation-they're digging for the worlds grave yards for used ones.Yes,yes,i know they'll be modernised like the first 12 for which we paid 700 million euros but i still think it's a bad ideea to get SH jets and with the money upfront like we did and on top of that buying them in different batches.We should have bought 48 new ones like we had offers in 2007,2008,on a long term deal.They would have been more expensive,yes,but with a payment term agreed with our partners stretched on a 8-10 years plan and with offset deals which would have brought money in the economy and be more profitable( SAAB had an offer with 10 years of payments and 100% worth offset into our economy) .Instead we pay cash like we do now with nothing in return for the economy.Don't get me started that our White Paper required an aquisition to be made in 2007-2008 with deliveries done by 2014.Instead we're still flying those rust buckets-don't someone say that it would have costed more,the SAAB offer was worth 4 billion $ for 48 new jets,streched over 10 years,offset,new jobs in the country.Recently many officials in the 2004-2008 period are jailed or on trial for embezzling billions of state money into their pockets.Dumb,dumb dumb !:mad:
 
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I met a former Romanian Air Force maintenance crew member, he said the only problem with these hunka junks is their low, extremely low air time. From engine start to runway, these Migs go through their center line tanks!

Rafel lightning pods+LGBs
PY5 + Derby with EL/2032

Quite capable but old air frame. Historically MiG-21s are very tough jets to fly..
 
I see you're a fan of Foxtrotalpha too:cheers::

I hope these get replaced, MiG-21 sucks!!! At one point Romania had an Israeli-modified program going called MiG-29 Sniper; it was too expensive:(

Oh well, the JAS-39 is available:yahoo:


MiG-29 Sniper - looked amazing!!!
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At one point Romania had a deal to build for its Air Force 96 home made AH Z1 Attack helicopters named AH Dracula.They scrapped it-to expensive.At one point Romania had a deal to build Leo 2A's named TR2000 for its Army-they scrapped it-to expensive.I can go and on ...Why do they even bothered to even start all those programs only to unceremoniously scrapp them it's beyond me....
 
At one point Romania had a deal to build for its Air Force 96 home made AH Z1 Attack helicopters named AH Dracula.They scrapped it-to expensive.At one point Romania had a deal to build Leo 2A's named TR2000 for its Army-they scrapped it-to expensive.I can go and on ...Why do they even bothered to even start all those programs only to unceremoniously scrapp them it's beyond me....

I'm pretty sure that with the money all those bast.... have stolen,you could have paid all those programs. :(
It's sad that some prefers themselves than their country...
If i'm not wrong,you'll rise your defense budget,yes,not in a large scale,but a good start. (If all countries could follow..)
 
I'm pretty sure that with the money all those bast.... have stolen,you could have paid all those programs. :(
It's sad that some prefers themselves than their country...
If i'm not wrong,you'll rise your defense budget,yes,not in a large scale,but a good start. (If all countries could follow..)


Yes,it was 1.33 of GDP last year,it is 1.6 this year,it will be 1.9 next year and 2% in 2017.All political parties signed an agreement named "The Pact for Defence" which says that when it will reach 2% in 2017 it can't go down from there by law for at least 10 years.

Oh,we pretty much agree that money for all those projects were there,but they prefered to robb this country dry.Look at the charts man with a simple google ,this country only started to "live" from the 2000's onwards .Our GDP was basically the same in 2000 like the one in 1989.That was a dead decade for us,the country was simply robbed,robbed and than robbed some more.From 2000 till today the GDP grew 4 times,from 50 billion to a little over 200.I sincerely think we owe this to the EU who basically told us "Get your shit together or go there and sit with Belarus!".These days though it's fun to see a little payback,the Justice system started to work,a few years ago due to European/US pressure young prosecutors were named heads of institutions and boy they started to wield the hammer of Justice-politicians in their hundreds! are on trial ,dozens sentenced allready and in 2014 some 310 million euros were confiscated by Court order.Not a day goes by today without seeing a Minister,general of the Army,member of Parliament dragged in irons to jail.The numbers are staggering....100 million euros bribe,300 million euros damage for the State,and this just in separate cases.We're now seeing the catastrophe that plagued us for years.I think that jail and money seizing it's to good for these rats...firing squads should be in order.
 
Yes,it was 1.33 of GDP last year,it is 1.6 this year,it will be 1.9 next year and 2% in 2017.All political parties signed an agreement named "The Pact for Defence" which says that when it will reach 2% in 2017 it can't go down from there by law for at least 10 years.

Oh,we pretty much agree that money for all those projects were there,but they prefered to robb this country dry.Look at the charts man with a simple google ,this country only started to "live" from the 2000's onwards .Our GDP was basically the same in 2000 like the one in 1989.That was a dead decade for us,the country was simply robbed,robbed and than robbed some more.From 2000 till today the GDP grew 4 times,from 50 billion to a little over 200.I sincerely think we owe this to the EU who basically told us "Get your shit together or go there and sit with Belarus!".These days though it's fun to see a little payback,the Justice system started to work,a few years ago due to European/US pressure young prosecutors were named heads of institutions and boy they started to wield the hammer of Justice-politicians in their hundreds! are on trial ,dozens sentenced allready and in 2014 some 310 million euros were confiscated by Court order.Not a day goes by today without seeing a Minister,general of the Army,member of Parliament dragged in irons to jail.The numbers are staggering....100 million euros bribe,300 million euros damage for the State,and this just in separate cases.We're now seeing the catastrophe that plagued us for years.I think that jail and money seizing it's to good for these rats...firing squads should be in order.

I presume that Romania and Poland were at similar levels of economic development after the fall of Communism?

For 2015, Poland is at 25,000 US dollars GDP per capita/PPP whereas Romania is at 20,000 US dollars GDP per capita/PPP.

Poland is considered to me a "model" former Soviet-block economy and so Romania does not seem to have done that badly in the last 25 years.
 
I presume that Romania and Poland were at similar levels of economic development after the fall of Communism?

For 2015, Poland is at 25,000 US dollars GDP per capita/PPP whereas Romania is at 20,000 US dollars GDP per capita/PPP.

Poland is considered to me a "model" former Soviet-block economy and so Romania does not seem to have done that badly in the last 25 years.


Romania has done good only in the last 15 years.Here is the chart:

Indicatori de dezvoltare mondială-Google Public Data Explorer

Romania GDP 1989-41.45 bILLION $........Romania GDP 2000-37,30 billion $....actually smaller than 1989,11 years later!!

Poland GDP 1990-64.7 Billion $
..........Poland GDP 2000-171.7 billion $......So in 90.s Poland economy grew over 2,5 times !

Now Romania is at 207 billion $,so it grew 5,5 times since 2000,Poland is at almost 600,so it grew 3,5 times.

Hungary had a 25% bigger economy than us in 200,now ours is almost 50% bigger.

This is nominal GDP,....we lost an entire decade,now we're recovering,growth is here ,is substantial but we would have been a lot better without the 90's total fiasco
 
Romania has done good only in the last 15 years.Here is the chart:

Indicatori de dezvoltare mondială-Google Public Data Explorer

Romania GDP 1989-41.45 bILLION $........Romania GDP 2000-37,30 billion $....actually smaller than 1989,11 years later!!

Poland GDP 1990-64.7 Billion $
..........Poland GDP 2000-171.7 billion $......So in 90.s Poland economy grew over 2,5 times !

Now Romania is at 207 billion $,so it grew 5,5 times since 2000,Poland is at almost 600,so it grew 3,5 times.

Hungary had a 25% bigger economy than us in 200,now ours is almost 50% bigger.

This is nominal GDP,....we lost an entire decade,now we're recovering,growth is here ,is substantial but we would have been a lot better without the 90's total fiasco

So Romania was a little wealthier than Poland at the fall of communism then? Poland had around 50% more GDP but twice the population

In that case Romania, if it matched Polish GDP/growth, would have been around 30,000 US dollars GDP/capita PPP. This would have put it on par with Spain and joined the ranks of the developed nations of Western Europe.
 
So Romania was a little wealthier than Poland at the fall of communism then? Poland had around 50% more GDP but twice the population

In that case Romania, if it matched Polish GDP/growth, would have been around 30,000 US dollars GDP/capita PPP. This would have put it on par with Spain and joined the ranks of the developed nations of Western Europe.


Yes but instead of that we got a political class in the 90's which royally f-ed us up.I don't know about PPP BUT at nominal GDP we should have been in the 400-450 billion range instead of a little over 200 like now,if we would have developed at least like Poland.
 
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