US won't sit idle if India-China conflict breaks out

[shjliu]

I can foresee a Chinese-Indian agreement in which India would remove its troops while China hands them a political victory (i.e. spinning this agreement as a mutual endeavor rather than an unilateral Indian withdrawal). India's goal as of now is to save face while China's goal is to simply get Indian troops out of Doklam. A conflict is still far-fetched, despite the saber-rattling being undertaken by both nations' media, as both countries realize that biding time works to their favor in both military and economic terms.

But there is a problem, China insists of Indian withdraws before talk or any agreement. so no talk, no agreement before withdraws.

 

[B2B]

How do you defend Bhutanese soil when you are asking to withdraw? Note that CHina is not asking to withdraw, they are asking you to withdraw.

Yes they passed this message to your CPC propaganda ministry via their embassy in China , oh wait I forgot Bhutan does not speak to you Chinese diplomatically.

I am sure they directly talked to your ping pong while he was busy in his afternoon nap post a heavy meal.

Give up man your propaganda ministry sucks learn something from Pakistan , their ISPR does amazing work in this context.

 

[Han Patriot]

Yes they passed this message to your CPC propaganda ministry via their embassy in China , oh wait I forgot Bhutan does not speak to you Chinese diplomatically.

I am sure they directly talked to your ping pong while he was busy in his afternoon nap post a heavy meal.

Give up man your propaganda ministry sucks learn something from Pakistan , their ISPR does amazing work in this context.

It's OK to be embarrassed of your government, afterall they can't even store grain properly let alone fight a war.

 

[DarX]

Wrong on both counts. It is not Chinese but Bhutanese land.

1.Its not India but China who is stuck. Anything short of an outright victory will be a humiliation for China.

2. Since the territory is Bhutanese China technically cannot attack Indian territory without risking an all out war & international ramifications . As regards the success of an all out war , refer ser 1 above.

3. Doklam is in the SE part of the Chumbi valley . An area dominated by Sikkim from the West & Bhutan whose defence is India's responsibility from the East.

China is caught between a rock & a hard place.

Please read something other than the garbage from the Indian media.

1. How is China stuck? The territory in question is disputed but it was under Chinese administration. Any status quo would mean INDIA has to withdraw but Chine doesn't. So China wins even if it forces India to withdraw, while India needs China to withdraw from the territory which it has administered for centuries now. Which seems easier?

2. The territory is not Bhutanese. It is disputed but has been under China for a long time. The Chinese claim has as much validity as the claim of the Bhutanese.

3. The defense of Sikkim and Bhutan might've been assumed by Indians to be their responsibility, but the key word here "DEFENSE" in all of this. When India crosses the international boundary, no matter how disputed it is, this is counted as AGGRESSION.

Now why do you think China is in a difficult situation? Even if we consider this to be disputed territory, India is camped in an area disputed by Bhutan and China. India has no claim on it and is asking China to withdraw from territory it had administered for centuries. Why would China do that? Do you think India can stay in Doklam for ever?

Isn't that place a disputed territory between the Chinese and the Indians? If so, considering Indian claims of a treaty with Bhutan, aren't they justified in being there? And finally, if a military force has forcibly taken over a territory and they haven't faced any military opposition in over a month, do you really believe that the routed force will return thereafter? I'm asking you these questions since the whole issue is rather confusing to me and whilst the Chinese claim that the Indians have made a mistake in their actions, I am yet to see the Chinese putting up any evidence or taking any action to prove this.

Indians are day dreaming as always.

 

[Chellam]

India is actually stuck in Doklam. It is in Chinese territory and time is ticking for it to find a face saving solution. Otherwise it will have to unilaterally withdraw as per Chinese demands, which will be a major embarrassment and which is the Chinese strategy at the moment.

Haha. India cannot stay in Doklam indefinitely, which would be tantamount to annexation!

Ha ha ha, India not in mind set to Withdraw, Ha ha ha ha

It's not even China Territory,

Please read something other than the garbage from the Indian media.

1. How is China stuck? The territory in question is disputed but it was under Chinese administration. Any status quo would mean INDIA has to withdraw but Chine doesn't. So China wins even if it forces India to withdraw, while India needs China to withdraw from the territory which it has administered for centuries now. Which seems easier?

2. The territory is not Bhutanese. It is disputed but has been under China for a long time. The Chinese claim has as much validity as the claim of the Bhutanese.

3. The defense of Sikkim and Bhutan might've been assumed by Indians to be their responsibility, but the key word here "DEFENSE" in all of this. When India crosses the international boundary, no matter how disputed it is, this is counted as AGGRESSION.

Now why do you think China is in a difficult situation? Even if we consider this to be disputed territory, India is camped in an area disputed by Bhutan and China. India has no claim on it and is asking China to withdraw from territory it had administered for centuries. Why would China do that? Do you think India can stay in Doklam for ever?



Indians are day dreaming as always.

It's You day dreaming,

It's not china Territory, India is very clear it's Disputed place between Bhutan and China and It's not settled, China should withdraw to do the same by india,

read some News, Don't apply Shit (China) your Shit mind set here which won't even work

Stop the stupid Like Barking (Warning in the china News agency), From day one it's News are barking WAR WAR ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Rollno21]

The bigger play here is that China is now looking to embarrass India. Bhutan has a claim on that land but it has been with China for centuries. So right now China is showing to the world that it had tried to solve this diplomatically. The thing is that China has two options for a win here. Either it forces India to withdraw unilaterally, or it kicks India out militarily. India has only one option, which is to convince China to mutually withdraw. But time is not India's side as it is sitting on Chinese territory. In all of this, one must remember that Chinese will also want political mileage.

Embarrass india ,you must be high on something,check out world media if there is anything against India on this ..you will know why China is frustrated .even Chinese media is saying India can't portray China as evil on the incident.

 

[C130]

Just like China had studied the two gulf wars of the US.

and what did you learn??

China hasn't been in a minor or major war in decades. is the human wave tactic still king?? China wants to be the U.S so bad. you need to start fighting more wars to achieve that.

 

[DarX]

Embarrass india ,you must be high on something,check out world media if there is anything against India on this ..you will know why China is frustrated .even Chinese media is saying India can't portray China as evil on the incident.

You should wake up. I haven't seen anything strongly in favor of India either. Considering the fact that India is demanding both sides to withdraw, it has already accepted the Chinese demand of withdrawal, while China has rejected any notion of their withdrawal. So, which side is in a stronger position?

https://www.nationalheraldindia.com...bout-international-support-to-india-on-doklam

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/whats-driving-the-india-china-standoff-at-doklam/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/world/asia/dolam-plateau-china-india-bhutan.html

and what did you learn??

China hasn't been in a minor or major war in decades. is the human wave tactic still king?? China wants to be the U.S so bad. you need to start fighting more wars to achieve that.

China was smart enough to avoid getting involved in unnecessary wars. Who is getting stronger and who is getting weaker today?

Ha ha ha, India not in mind set to Withdraw, Ha ha ha ha

It's not even China Territory,




It's You day dreaming,

It's not china Territory, India is very clear it's Disputed place between Bhutan and China and It's not settled, China should withdraw to do the same by india,

read some News, Don't apply Shit (China) your Shit mind set here which won't even work

Stop the stupid Like Barking (Warning in the china News agency), From day one it's News are barking WAR WAR ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Read and weep.

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/whats-driving-the-india-china-standoff-at-doklam/

1. Status of Doklam as Chinese territory

Complicating matters, the road may be much older than just the couple of decades that most commentators reference. In researching the political geography of the Doklam area, I came across a Survey of India map from 1933 (shown above) that shows evidence of a track roughly corresponding to the present-day road used by the PLA. The Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs has argued that its claim to Doklam first stems from Qing dynasty-era taxation of Bhutanese herders in the area. In fact, it places this historical claim before its reference to the Anglo-Chinese Convention of 1890 (which I discussed in more detail in the first installment). While the PLA outposts discussed above may be new additions, the track itself may be part of what the Bhutanese and Chinese have bilaterally agreed to as part of the “status quo on the boundary as before March 1959.

2. India in a difficult position

For Bhutan, the desired end-state is a return to the status quo before June 16, as its foreign ministry noted, but it would ideally like to do so quietly. This puts India in a difficult position, given that New Delhi, per its June 30 statement, predicated much of its decision to intervene on its coordination with the Royal Government of Bhutan and a 2012 agreement with China that triboundary disputes would be resolved in consultation with third parties. Notably, while Delhi has sought to frame its decision to intervene in terms of its obligations to Bhutan, Thimphu did not mention India once in its sole public statement on the Doklam standoff. For China, this subtle gap between the Indian and Bhutanese positions — at least publicly — is enough to sustain its ultimatum while gradually signaling that escalation may be possible. For Beijing, the “win” state now is less about having a road that terminates at Jampheri ridge and more about seeing the Indians blink first.

This brings me to the conclusion of this second installment in this series on the ongoing standoff at Doklam and sets up the final discussion. As I noted last week, if a solution will be found, it will not be borne of reinterpreting old maps or semantic gamesmanship over what the correct “status quo” in the Doklam triboundary area should be. For India and China, this standoff has released long pent-up frustrations that highlight their divergent paths and aspirations in Asia and the world. For China, the standoff serves as an opportunity to put an increasingly assertive and confident India back in its place as Asia’s permanent second-class great power. For India, despite some de-escalatory messaging, memories of defeat at the hands of the PLA in 1962 continue to sting and so showing resolve at all costs remains the overriding task. For now, India has no plans of complying with China’s ultimatum and pulling its troops past the international boundary.

That’s precisely why the scope for a peaceful walk-back from the brink appears to be shrinking with every passing day and why this standoff matters.

 

[Chellam]

You should wake up. I haven't seen anything strongly in favor of India either. Considering the fact that India is demanding both sides to withdraw, it has already accepted the Chinese demand of withdrawal, while China has rejected any notion of their withdrawal. So, which side is in a stronger position?

https://www.nationalheraldindia.com...bout-international-support-to-india-on-doklam

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/whats-driving-the-india-china-standoff-at-doklam/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/world/asia/dolam-plateau-china-india-bhutan.html



China was smart enough to avoid getting involved in unnecessary wars. Who is getting stronger and who is getting weaker today?



Read and weep.

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/whats-driving-the-india-china-standoff-at-doklam/

1. Status of Doklam as Chinese territory

Complicating matters, the road may be much older than just the couple of decades that most commentators reference. In researching the political geography of the Doklam area, I came across a Survey of India map from 1933 (shown above) that shows evidence of a track roughly corresponding to the present-day road used by the PLA. The Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs has argued that its claim to Doklam first stems from Qing dynasty-era taxation of Bhutanese herders in the area. In fact, it places this historical claim before its reference to the Anglo-Chinese Convention of 1890 (which I discussed in more detail in the first installment). While the PLA outposts discussed above may be new additions, the track itself may be part of what the Bhutanese and Chinese have bilaterally agreed to as part of the “status quo on the boundary as before March 1959.

2. India in a difficult position

For Bhutan, the desired end-state is a return to the status quo before June 16, as its foreign ministry noted, but it would ideally like to do so quietly. This puts India in a difficult position, given that New Delhi, per its June 30 statement, predicated much of its decision to intervene on its coordination with the Royal Government of Bhutan and a 2012 agreement with China that triboundary disputes would be resolved in consultation with third parties. Notably, while Delhi has sought to frame its decision to intervene in terms of its obligations to Bhutan, Thimphu did not mention India once in its sole public statement on the Doklam standoff. For China, this subtle gap between the Indian and Bhutanese positions — at least publicly — is enough to sustain its ultimatum while gradually signaling that escalation may be possible. For Beijing, the “win” state now is less about having a road that terminates at Jampheri ridge and more about seeing the Indians blink first.

This brings me to the conclusion of this second installment in this series on the ongoing standoff at Doklam and sets up the final discussion. As I noted last week, if a solution will be found, it will not be borne of reinterpreting old maps or semantic gamesmanship over what the correct “status quo” in the Doklam triboundary area should be. For India and China, this standoff has released long pent-up frustrations that highlight their divergent paths and aspirations in Asia and the world. For China, the standoff serves as an opportunity to put an increasingly assertive and confident India back in its place as Asia’s permanent second-class great power. For India, despite some de-escalatory messaging, memories of defeat at the hands of the PLA in 1962 continue to sting and so showing resolve at all costs remains the overriding task. For now, India has no plans of complying with China’s ultimatum and pulling its troops past the international boundary.

That’s precisely why the scope for a peaceful walk-back from the brink appears to be shrinking with every passing day and why this standoff matters.

It's not a china Territory, it's Disputed area between china and Bhutan, as per Bhutan and India

 

[Rollno21]

You should wake up. I haven't seen anything strongly in favor of India either. Considering the fact that India is demanding both sides to withdraw, it has already accepted the Chinese demand of withdrawal, while China has rejected any notion of their withdrawal. So, which side is in a stronger position?

https://www.nationalheraldindia.com...bout-international-support-to-india-on-doklam

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/whats-driving-the-india-china-standoff-at-doklam/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/world/asia/dolam-plateau-china-india-bhutan.html



China was smart enough to avoid getting involved in unnecessary wars. Who is getting stronger and who is getting weaker today?



Read and weep.

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/whats-driving-the-india-china-standoff-at-doklam/

1. Status of Doklam as Chinese territory

Complicating matters, the road may be much older than just the couple of decades that most commentators reference. In researching the political geography of the Doklam area, I came across a Survey of India map from 1933 (shown above) that shows evidence of a track roughly corresponding to the present-day road used by the PLA. The Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs has argued that its claim to Doklam first stems from Qing dynasty-era taxation of Bhutanese herders in the area. In fact, it places this historical claim before its reference to the Anglo-Chinese Convention of 1890 (which I discussed in more detail in the first installment). While the PLA outposts discussed above may be new additions, the track itself may be part of what the Bhutanese and Chinese have bilaterally agreed to as part of the “status quo on the boundary as before March 1959.

2. India in a difficult position

For Bhutan, the desired end-state is a return to the status quo before June 16, as its foreign ministry noted, but it would ideally like to do so quietly. This puts India in a difficult position, given that New Delhi, per its June 30 statement, predicated much of its decision to intervene on its coordination with the Royal Government of Bhutan and a 2012 agreement with China that triboundary disputes would be resolved in consultation with third parties. Notably, while Delhi has sought to frame its decision to intervene in terms of its obligations to Bhutan, Thimphu did not mention India once in its sole public statement on the Doklam standoff. For China, this subtle gap between the Indian and Bhutanese positions — at least publicly — is enough to sustain its ultimatum while gradually signaling that escalation may be possible. For Beijing, the “win” state now is less about having a road that terminates at Jampheri ridge and more about seeing the Indians blink first.

This brings me to the conclusion of this second installment in this series on the ongoing standoff at Doklam and sets up the final discussion. As I noted last week, if a solution will be found, it will not be borne of reinterpreting old maps or semantic gamesmanship over what the correct “status quo” in the Doklam triboundary area should be. For India and China, this standoff has released long pent-up frustrations that highlight their divergent paths and aspirations in Asia and the world. For China, the standoff serves as an opportunity to put an increasingly assertive and confident India back in its place as Asia’s permanent second-class great power. For India, despite some de-escalatory messaging, memories of defeat at the hands of the PLA in 1962 continue to sting and so showing resolve at all costs remains the overriding task. For now, India has no plans of complying with China’s ultimatum and pulling its troops past the international boundary.

That’s precisely why the scope for a peaceful walk-back from the brink appears to be shrinking with every passing day and why this standoff matters.

India has always been saying from the start we will withdraw once the Chinese troops withdraw.if you don't know how standoffs have been resolved in the past as per the agreement is both sides withdraw to their previous positions ,that's not weakness it's the agreement between both the countries .

You know China will not find support .

China has still got log way to reach before it has the influence as US..just an example ,China spent lot of money and time in SL and one govt change ,changed everything,money can take you only so far.

 

[xyxmt]

New papa ?
You reminded me this .

he reminds you of Indian views about Pakistan, wow never expected that from an Indian

 

[B2B]

It's OK to be embarrassed of your government, afterall they can't even store grain properly let alone fight a war.

My sympathies with you mr Han. Get well soon

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

and what did you learn??

China hasn't been in a minor or major war in decades. is the human wave tactic still king?? China wants to be the U.S so bad. you need to start fighting more wars to achieve that.

Fry one big fish is more efficient than fry many small fishes.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...t-breaks-out-experts/articleshow/59776785.cms

BEIJING: The US is not likely to be an idle witness in the case of a military conflict between India and China and it might take actions to put pressure on Beijing, two experts told TNN in interviews.

"I do not think that the United States would become involved in a border conflict between China and India, but I do think that an increasingly competitive China-India dynamic is likely to lead to increased security cooperation between the United States and India," Zack Cooper, senior fellow at the Washington based Center for Strategic and International Studies told TNN.

Cooper said the US is trying to balance against China's growing power and India can play a major role in this balancing effort.

"In that sense, if China continues to pursue its claims against India, Beijing risks creating an anti-China balancing coalition of its own making," he said. "In my view, Beijing would be wise to de-escalate the crisis and resolve the stalemate without a violent conflict," he added.

Rising military competition between the US and China has kept Beijing engaged in recent weeks. The US might enhance its naval presence in case of a conflict in the India-China border, analysts said.

"Should the ongoing push and shove turn into a hot war, Washington is expected to provide logistical, intelligence and material support to India's military," said Mohan Malik, professor of Asia-Pacific Center for Security in Honolulu. "It might even dispatch an aircraft carrier and submarines to the Indian Ocean to monitor and deter Chinese naval assets," he said.

Chinese concerns about the US taking sides with India were reflected in a commentary in government backed Global Times on Wednesday.

"There are certain forces in the West that are instigating a military clash between China and India, from which they can seek strategic benefits at no cost to themselves. Washington applied this scheme in the South China Sea disputes," it said.


Malik said some Chinese strategic thinkers are favouring a short war would give India a bloody nose while helping China take forward its goal of achieving a Sino-centric regional order in Asia.

Just like the Americans told the Georgians in 2008 that they won't allow the Russians to attack them.......................

 

[shjliu]

and what did you learn??

China hasn't been in a minor or major war in decades. is the human wave tactic still king?? China wants to be the U.S so bad. you need to start fighting more wars to achieve that.

I don't think China wants to be the U.S. at all.

It's not a china Territory, it's Disputed area between china and Bhutan, as per Bhutan and India

is India = Bhutan?