US tells Delhi to back off Pakistan and lay low in Afghanistan

[nitesh]

Nitesh, surely you did not miss Chidambaram's allegation of having 'proof of Pakistani agencies involvement in Mumbai'.

That sort of rhetoric, 'all options on the table', refusal to engage with Pakistan until very late etc - all of that led to the current environment we see.

What should they have done? Issued official statements categorically refuting the speculation by the Indian media and various politicians of Pakistani institutional involvement, as Pakistan did after the attack on the Sri Lankan team. Engage with Pakistan on her offers of cooperation, joint investigation etc.

There was a lot that could have been done differently, and could still be done differently - the GoI continues to repeat the same, perhaps now because its election season.

Sir the point is the larger picture if you really think that this sort of things can be pulled off independently without no body knowing/helping in the country then seriously I am helpless.

 

[Xeric]

The text mentioned in the article is amply clear, well if someone doesn't like the it, he can carry on with the false assumptions and can get himself soothed.

Nothing can be said more lucidly.

Nobody (the US) is going to 'scold' any country(india) and ask it specifically to get away from the dirty works it does in some country [Pakistan(Baluchistan) and afghanistan].

india should realize now that its clandestine ops (which they probably think are hidden) are known to outsiders and it should be stopped as they are just creating more fuss. (As india has been unsuccessful both in Balochistan and afghanistan-making Pakistan to commit ___(i ain't telling that) size force around Quetta and supplying few rusted weapons in the Frontier Province doesn't qualify india as a winner, atleast when it is compared to what Pakistan had been doing to india in Kashmir PREVIOUSLY!)

So it is time to back off!
The big daddy is now in no mode of joking and it has come to it as a shock that still Pakistan can at anytime shift its focus towards east without even thinking twice and leaving the so called Talibans to butcher foreign forces from its land and away.

So india has to stop playing decade old tactics of unsuccessful black mail (mumbai attacks) as it has failed miserably as shown during the recent tension between india and Pakistan.

It has been made clear to the US that it has to collar india or it 'll not pay much heed to towards the task at hand (fighting extremism on the western front), which can prove disastrous for the US.

 

[Bull]

I agree that the US would like to see a thaw in the East as a means of focusing PA efforts in the West, which would be to the advantage of everyone concerned, including India. Whether that comes to pass or not we shall see - the noise in India over the alleged suggestion of a redeployment away from the Pakistan border was not very positive.

On the Baluchistan issue, I think it is becoming an issue for the US NATO (see S-2's musings on this, with respect to a coming offensive in Helmand and districts bordering Baluchistan). If that Balochistan border is not sealed, we might see a repeat of Tora Bora, and another 'haven' set up on the Pakistani side in Baluchistan.

Reports out of the US have also indicated that the PREDATOR attacks may have also started pushing some elements into Baluchistan.

So Baluchistan is likely a potential future strategic area for the US to be concerned about for multiple reasons, least of all the fact that the PA/FC is distracted fighting a Baluch insurgency, instead of focusing on the Afghan-Pakistan border in Baluchistan.

Baluchistan still only comes up as a future issue. Lets talk about the present issue. The US is getting frustrated with diversionary attacks like the one in Mumbai, Lahore, Marriot, Red mosque etc which forces the PA admin to shift a lot of assets to tackle terror in the other provinces.

Where can India help? US cant expect to raise tensions after 26/11, due to which Pakistan pulled out troops from the east , to explicitly show the US they cant fight Taliban when India raises tension, and looks like they have played their crads well.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Sir the point is the larger picture if you really think that this sort of things can be pulled off independently without no body knowing/helping in the country then seriously I am helpless.

Of course such things can be pulled off without the authorities knowing - Pakistan isn't Sweden with top notch law enforcement, largely similar nations surrounding it, and well developed institutions and databases.

The Lahore attacks were pulled off weren't they, as was the Marriot blast, and Indian officials have themselves admitted that the DI network continues to operate in India. How can India allow such a network, accused of complicity in some of the major terrorist attacks in India, and so much crime, be allowed to survive without official patronage? That's the conclusion one would draw with your logic.

Of course there is corruption and local officials in India and Pakistan are probably paid off to keep quiet, but that is different from the accusations leveled by India.

 

[vkurian]

Agreed on that.

Btw, what do you make of "US asks India to support Pakistan on extremists".
From our point of view it means that India has to back off from Balochistan and halt clandestine RAW/DIA activities.

No it means you have to dismantel all the terror camps that you have built over the years.And also no cross border terrorist activity into India.

Yes, if you do have concerns related to RAW then that has to be taken care of.Also dont forget the Obama administartion has made it clear the aid will be with conditions.

 

[Xeric]

So be a good boy and start behaving.

If and only if you open your brains and eyes then you'll be able to see that this is the advice that the US is giving to india, lately!!

Chota sa ik bacha hon per kam karonga baray baray!!!

Hold your horses india, before it throw and overrun the rider itself.

 

[nitesh]

Of course such things can be pulled off without the authorities knowing - Pakistan isn't Sweden with top notch law enforcement, largely similar nations surrounding it, and well developed institutions and databases.

The Lahore attacks were pulled off weren't they, as was the Marriot blast, and Indian officials have themselves admitted that the DI network continues to operate in India. How can India allow such a network, accused of complicity in some of the major terrorist attacks in India, and so much crime, be allowed to survive without official patronage? That's the conclusion one would draw with your logic.

Of course there is corruption and local officials in India and Pakistan are probably paid off to keep quiet, but that is different from the accusations leveled by India.

AM ,
So are you accepting that the organizations which are working for terrorism in india are allowed to work in you country. Sorry but this is the expression I am getting from your post.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ok - No more posts along the lines of the above two by Enigma and Vkurian.

Behave you lot and stay constructive, learn from the senior Indian and Pakistani members like Bull, Maly, Neo and Fatman, and ho they can express disagreement and still carry on a civil discussion and not flame.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM ,
So are you accepting that the organizations which are working for terrorism in india are allowed to work in you country. Sorry but this is the expression I am getting from your post.

No, I said that Indian officials have stated that DI's network is operating in India, and behind a lot of crime and terrorism, and using your logic it would mean that the Indian government is complicit in the terrorism perpetrated by DI and his network.

Edit: DI = Dawood Ibrahim

 

[nitesh]

No, I said that Indian officials have stated that DI's network is operating in India, and behind a lot of crime and terrorism, and using your logic it would mean that the Indian government is complicit in the terrorism perpetrated by DI and his network.

Edit: DI = Dawood Ibrahim

So what are you coampring a criminal with a terrorist organization now. Dawood is a registered criminal in India. Are you saying GoI is supporting it to to do terrorism in other countries?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So what are you coampring a criminal with a terrorist organization now. Dawood is a registered criminal in India. Are you saying GoI is supporting it to to do terrorism in other countries?

My point is that if it was possible for developing countries like India and Pakistan to maintain the sort of complete control on criminal/terrorist activity yous suggest, then India would have dismantled DI's network and all major crime syndicates a long time ago.

Terrorism is essentially a sort of very violent crime, and terrorists largely use the same avenues as other criminals for funds and weapons.

 

[nitesh]

My point is that if it was possible for developing countries like India and Pakistan to maintain the sort of complete control on criminal/terrorist activity yous suggest, then India would have dismantled DI's network and all major crime syndicates a long time ago.

Terrorism is essentially a sort of very violent crime, and terrorists largely use the same avenues as other criminals for funds and weapons.

Got your point, but there is a fundamental difference between having not able to eliminate a criminal/ terrorism and supporting the criminal/terrorism against someone else. hope my point is clear.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Got your point, but there is a fundamental difference between having not able to eliminate a criminal/ terrorism and supporting the criminal/terrorism against someone else. hope my point is clear.

There is a further difference to be made - the LeT was not being supported, in fact its leadership in interviews to the Indian media stated that they had found it extremely hard to operate after the 2002 crackdown.

What happened with Mumbai IMO was that a hardcore group in the LeT decided to ignore the GoP's stance on the issue (we were pursuing negotiations) and carry out this terrorist attack in Mumbai, perhaps in order to prevent negotiations and compromise.

Pakistani institutions had nothing to do with this- when we did support the LeT, it was for fighting the IA in Kashmir in order to bring India to the negotiating table.

 

[nitesh]

There is a further difference to be made - the LeT was not being supported, in fact its leadership in interviews to the Indian media stated that they had found it extremely hard to operate after the 2002 crackdown.

What happened with Mumbai IMO was that a hardcore group in the LeT decided to ignore the GoP's stance on the issue (we were pursuing negotiations) and carry out this terrorist attack in Mumbai, perhaps in order to prevent negotiations and compromise.

Pakistani institutions had nothing to do with this- when we did support the LeT, it was for fighting the IA in Kashmir in order to bring India to the negotiating table.

So Infact these guys were banned for show off purpose but was not eliminated. That is what all along India is saying. they started off a new organization called JuD which is banned now only.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So Infact these guys were banned for show off purpose but was not eliminated. That is what all along India is saying. they started off a new organization called JuD which is banned now only.

I am still not convinced the JuD was involved. We will find out when the courts decide, especially if it goes in front of a CJ led bench in the Supreme Court.

The Major perpetrators of the attack, Lakhvi etc., belonged to the LeT from what I understand.

In any case, my point is that Pakistan had clearly indicated to these groups that violence was off - it decreased dramatically in Kashmir and infiltration across the LoC also dropped, and the groups acknowledged the restrictions on them.

What happened in Mumbai was, as I said earlier, IMO a rogue hard line group of people from the LeT acting on their own. Finally, Pakistan will find it very hard to crakc down on kashmiri groups unless there is movement on Kashmir - it will be political suicide for any government otherwise.

Its obviously different when these groups get implicated in attacks such as Mumbai, and are found guilty through the court system.