US sold old F-16’s at higher rates, says Mukhtar

[BATMAN]

There are no kill switches..!!!
there are startup codes for avionics and are burnt into the DTM.. just in case sm1 decided a repeat of mr mati-ur-rehmans act.
true these codes are generated by LM and delivered to us by the US military liason(acting on behalf for the govt) every day.
but the older birds also came with similar codes back in the 80 and an identical procedure was followed for a year or so till we made our own workaround for them

there may not be kill switches but there are counter measures.

US knows how to deceive AIM120 and confuse the radar of F-16 and how to not get deceived by the counter measures of delivered F-16.

 

[Muradk]

Codes are provided every day???

Is it possible to bypass such a procedure? If yes, how?

At the point of delivery the codes are given with a Lmartin Contract which states that the delivery is according to the contract specified by PAF and the codes are attached with it. That's it after that the codes remain the same changes occur if they are upgraded or downgraded.

 

[SQ8]

there may not be kill switches but there are counter measures.

US knows how to deceive AIM120 and confuse the radar of F-16 and how to not get deceived by the counter measures of delivered F-16.

Well.. nobody is hoping to go to war with the US.
But in case that does happen.. its better to use equipment they are unfamiliar with.. and we have those.

Even then.. that wont render the F-16's completely useless.
The US Navy used F-14's in its agressor sq to simulate and prepare for combat with Iranian tomcats(amongst other threats).. even though it has ample experience with the type it considered those F-14's a serious threat till a few years back.

 

[Chogy]

there may not be kill switches but there are counter measures.

US knows how to deceive AIM120 and confuse the radar of F-16 and how to not get deceived by the counter measures of delivered F-16.

Sir - Of course we know our own equipment, down to each individual transistor on every chip.

That doesn't mean there are black boxes that emit a signal that will make an AIM-120 return to strike its own launch platform. Weapons like an AIM-120 are heavily engineered to be robust and not fall prey to countermeasures. It is counterproductive to make them any other way.

This magic "kill switch" thing was also a popular conspiracy with Egypt.

 

[Storm Force]

To notorious re PAFS upgrade of F16s

Your comment re APG68 radar says it all. An old mechancial scanning radar cannot be compared to a modern Aesa like APG79/80 or even a Bars Pesa Radar on the Su30mki.

As for The Typhoons & Rafael they come with brand new radars and jammers worth $millons each..

The 18 x F16/52 are good planes that PAF will have. But nothing that will worry pilots in a Typhoon Rafael or su30 mki/su35.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

And who would you be suffering to as a numbskulls..zia ul haq?

You paid for the F-16's.. from the AID package.

reverse engineering requires a manufacturing base.. something our leadership seems to ignore..preferring investments in bullet proof cars.

That means we need to change the leadership...

 

[Muradk]

To notorious re PAFS upgrade of F16s

Your comment re APG68 radar says it all. An old mechancial scanning radar cannot be compared to a modern Aesa like APG79/80 or even a Bars Pesa Radar on the Su30mki.

As for The Typhoons & Rafael they come with brand new radars and jammers worth $millons each..

The 18 x F16/52 are good planes that PAF will have. But nothing that will worry pilots in a Typhoon Rafael or su30 mki/su35.

I would never make a statement like that if I knew how to fly.

 

[SQ8]

That means we need to change the leadership...

And potential replacements.. otherwise you are trading in one *** for another.

speaking of kill switches.. lol.. i remember this episode from Airwolf.. about some arms dealer selling a super sophisticated sam system to Iran..
and then tht one eyed fellow claiming he supports it.. so that when US and Israeli jets strike Iran they will transmit some signal and yada yada.

Stuff like that is good for movies.
It would break a few hearts here to think the PAF is that dumb to willingly walk into such a move..(not that I even give thought to the idea of a kill switch at all).

The startup codes are another matter.. and they are implemented in all US aircraft and in most other modern jets.
These codes also provide the day's hop freq routine and other tricks for the Have quick radios.

 

[BATMAN]

Sir - Of course we know our own equipment, down to each individual transistor on every chip.

That doesn't mean there are black boxes that emit a signal that will make an AIM-120 return to strike its own launch platform. Weapons like an AIM-120 are heavily engineered to be robust and not fall prey to countermeasures. It is counterproductive to make them any other way.

This magic "kill switch" thing was also a popular conspiracy with Egypt.

Hi.. I never commented on kill switches.
Neither i claimed you don't know it..... neither i mentioned transistors.

What i stated is very logical..... I can bet that US knows what counter measures are most effective against AIM120 and vice versa.
So is with its radar... it may not be scaled down version but what jamming work effectively against it will be known to US.

Handing over such parameters to states hostile to Pakistan is not improbable.

Who knows US sell friendly radars to our enemy state and F-16 recognize enemy aircraft as friendly?
We'll be fuked in a bad way in the net centric warfare where identification of friend and foe is key.

I believe whenever radar of our F-16 process the radar image scaned a/c as F-16 it will be counted as friendly.

BTW... i like to comment on emitting signal thing as well...
You might remember the 'behind enemy lines - 1' the pilot seat had some frequency emitter which was catched by his commander in command center.

Emitting unnoticed passive signal is not some thing out of the world tech.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

And potential replacements.. otherwise you are trading in one *** for another.

speaking of kill switches.. lol.. i remember this episode from Airwolf.. about some arms dealer selling a super sophisticated sam system to Iran..
and then tht one eyed fellow claiming he supports it.. so that when US and Israeli jets strike Iran they will transmit some signal and yada yada.

Stuff like that is good for movies.
It would break a few hearts here to think the PAF is that dumb to willingly walk into such a move..(not that I even give thought to the idea of a kill switch at all).

The startup codes are another matter.. and they are implemented in all US aircraft and in most other modern jets.
These codes also provide the day's hop freq routine and other tricks for the Have quick radios.

100 percent agree... Its not just leadership... To elaborate more I meant the whole system has to be changed...

As for replacements... Santro... I dont know if you would agree to this... but let me assure you there are still good people left amongst Muslims...

Moreover one should not trust in one person... rather one should understand the system... so if the leader start falling out of line, he can be corrected by others...

In our current example... if the leadership is denying us reverse engineering then we know there is something very very wrong with such leadership...

 

[krash]

And who would you be suffering to as a numbskulls..zia ul haq?

You paid for the F-16's.. from the AID package.

reverse engineering requires a manufacturing base.. something our leadership seems to ignore..preferring investments in bullet proof cars.

i believe the numskull i was referring to would be the defence minister saying "the United States sold old F-16’s to Pakistan at higher rates." ..... And the "old F-16s", as were referred, would be the F-16As and Bs we got which were previously blocked in the 90s(and which i believe, under guidance from this forum, were not paid for by us) ? not the "new" f-16 block 52s (which were paid for under the AID package without the price hike included)..... i believe the term "old F-16s" has me confused please correct me if you can

regards again

 

[Chogy]

Who knows US sell friendly radars to our enemy state and F-16 recognize enemy aircraft as friendly?
We'll be fuked in a bad way in the net centric warfare where identification of friend and foe is key.

I'm not sure you understand how IFF equipment works. BOTH aircraft require an encrypted "Code of the day" for the IFF interrogation to return "friendly." For your scenario to play out, we'd have to know the IFF code (changeable via software by ground personnel) of the Pakistani system, AND give it to the enemy. All you need to do is keep the code a secret. PAF aircraft return friendly, others don't.

I believe whenever radar of our F-16 process the radar image scaned a/c as F-16 it will be counted as friendly.

Again, it doesn't work that way. IFF is a digital burst that has nothing to do with a typical X-band signal. IFF (excepting NCTR) is separate from raw radar returns.

BTW... i like to comment on emitting signal thing as well...
You might remember the 'behind enemy lines - 1' the pilot seat had some frequency emitter which was catched by his commander in command center.

ANY signal emitted by any system is liable to be detected, triangulated upon, or attacked via HARM or similar weapons. Don't transmit anything. It's called EMCON. As for a movie... it's a movie. Star Wars was a movie too.

If we sold secrets to India (the obvious "enemy" in this scenario) on some mythical secret to defeat an AIM120, then there goes our entire fleet of fighters. There is no secret digital signal, no turn off switch, no software "backdoor" to U.S. weapons. If there was, it would only be a matter of time before some country discovered it, and there goes the entire worldwide market for U.S. arms.

Companies like Lockheed, Raytheon, Boeing, want their products to be world class. That is how more are sold.

@StormForce: That "old" mechanical radar on the F-15 has a 100:0 kill ratio. There's nothing wrong with mechanically-scanned radars. They will be effective for decades.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Having said that its a conspiracy alright .. but one wonders that if people can control drones from that far , will it be possible to make a magic kill switch which could render all the avionics useless . I am just wondering that "is it POSSIBLE "....??

 

[umair86]

when we got the Falcons in first place they unique with their Radar Ew suite and other sensors many F-16C/D features were adopted for our F-16A/B. They were probably the first A/B Falcons in service with radars fully capable of AMRAAM and Sparrow guidance features. This Mukhtar guy is a Mochi he doesn't even know what is a aircraft. F-16 would be the last US fighter ever in our inventory we will never again go for a US fighter again.

 

[SQ8]

i believe the numskull i was referring to would be the defence minister saying "the United States sold old F-16’s to Pakistan at higher rates." ..... And the "old F-16s", as were referred, would be the F-16As and Bs we got which were previously blocked in the 90s(and which i believe, under guidance from this forum, were not paid for by us) ? not the "new" f-16 block 52s (which were paid for under the AID package without the price hike included)..... i believe the term "old F-16s" has me confused please correct me if you can

regards again

Peace gate I.. first delivered F-16's were paid by US AID.
Peace gate II(half),III and IV were coming out of our own pockets.
Peace Drive is funded by our own cash(albeit some of it "borrowed" from aid).

MBQ..
off topic..
To me.. being a good muslim has a prerequisite of being a good honest human being,morally,spiritually and ethically..
Otherwise I have seen traffic police inspectors with had big white beards, prayer caps..folded pants and marks on their foreheads..who told me to hurry up with the bribe for my license since they were late for their asr prayers.
One of the most honest people I have encountered in my life was a Christan by faith.. yet his word was above most of those who would preach about satr and invoking dua before everything.
This can be discussed at length later..somewhere else.