US responsible for the Murder of Pakistani Troops - Pak Rejects NATO Probe

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

shame on americans. It is clear that the stoppage of NATO supplies has affected them. I suggest that we must now put a permanent ban on NATO supplies, because unless US/NATO forces don't face these adversities they are not going to leave Afghanistan...

 

[Awesome]

Closing down airspace represents escalation, not resolution. What would be gained by that? That would be imprudent.

Resolution is not the opposite of escalation - that would be de-escalate.

A matter is unresolved when we are uncertain of what happened or what we're to do.

We are now certain of American hostility and there by a hostile response is necessitated.

What is gained? Plenty.

1. We are no longer targeted by America's enemies. If you took the entire summation of the causes of deaths by terrorism since 2001, you'd have one resounding theme echo over and over - "We helped America". This should stop, we would eventually not be targeted any more.
2. We have to hurt American interests, make it difficult for them to maintain presence in this region. They have a failing economy, make the war so much more expensive and unwinnable that sooner or later the Americans consider it unfightable.
3. That would have the advantage of Americans being unable to meddle in Pakistani affairs and maintain spies in Pakistan through their Afghanistan counterparts.

Advantages upon advantages.

 

[BATMAN]

Exactly. The dialogue has to move forward to resolve the crisis.

If it is true what is printed in the news about the report... than it is more like one way traffic.

 

[fatman17]

The question we have to ask of our guys is... Why are we obliging the US with the airspace corridor after they just made a mockery out of the 24 lives lost?

indeed -after such a serious lapse, the TOE's need to be re-defined. - land and air routes, use of bases, taxing the goods, intelligence sharing (sat/ground), trainers, visas, number of embassy and consulate staff etc - even the AID (mil/civil) should be reviewed before acceptence - we have suffered 'sanctions' from 65-76 and then from 89-01 - and lived/survived. the time has come again to tighten the belts (military as well as civil) - any agreement has to be on the basis of 'respect' first and then let the 'trust' build itself.

---------- Post added at 06:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:33 PM ----------

hey cant see the 'thanks' buttons!!!

 

[All-Green]

Thank you for that calm and level headed post.

Let me first say that there were indeed a series of errors on the NATO side. I am also painfully cognizant of the asymmetric casualties.

Let me then say this:

If Pakistanis were not aware of NATO operations in the area, then they would have no way of knowing who they were firing at. Once fired upon by what they believed to be enemy combatants, NATO forces followed SOP to determine a response, but made a series of errors that led to a geographical error of 9 miles.

Tragedies such as this have multi-factorial causes, and all of them need to be looked at one by one, calmly, and logically, if they are to be rectified. This must happen on both sides.

Please see bold part.
This is what i want to highlight as something they want us to digest but it is far from the ground reality when we review the capability of US forces and situational awareness, it is impossible that they had no idea whom they engaged or who engaged them.

They surely had their own coordinates and since they knew our post locations, would have been impossible not to realize that they need to inform our high command and ensure that there are no friendly casualties.
Pull out was the only way to proceed, instead they called in airstrikes at coordinates which were Pakistani posts.

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

indeed -after such a serious lapse, the TOE's need to be re-defined. - land and air routes, use of bases, taxing the goods, intelligence sharing (sat/ground), trainers, visas, number of embassy and consulate staff etc - even the AID (mil/civil) should be reviewed before acceptence - we have suffered 'sanctions' from 65-76 and then from 89-01 - and lived/survived. the time has come again to tighten the belts (military as well as civil) - any agreement has to be on the basis of 'respect' first and then let the 'trust' build itself.

---------- Post added at 06:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:33 PM ----------

hey cant see the 'thanks' buttons!!!

Hehehe...

 

[lem34]

We need to face facts we favour this and america does not and therfore its difficult to have any meaningful agreement with america we only agree that we are against terrorism we dont agree on anything else:

Everything is up for grabs at the crucial intersection of hardcore geopolitics and Pipelineistan. Washington's New Silk Road dream is not exactly a success. [21]

Moscow, for its part, now wants Pakistan to be a full member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) [22]. That also applies to China in relation to Iran. Imagine Russia, China, Pakistan and Iran coordinating their mutual security inside a strengthened SCO, whose motto is "non-alignment, non-confrontation and non-interference in the affairs of other countries". R2P it ain't.

Snags abound. For China the SCO is above all about economics and trade [23]. For Russia it's above all a security bloc [24], which must absolutely find a regional solution to Afghanistan that keeps the Taliban under control and at the same time gets rid of the Afghan chapter of the US Empire of Bases.

As Pipelineistan goes, with Russia, Central Asia and Iran controlling 50% of world's gas reserves, and with Iran and Pakistan as virtual SCO members, the name of the game becomes Asian integration - if not Eurasian. China and Russia now coordinate foreign policy in extreme detail. The trick is to connect China and Central Asia with South Asia and the Gulf - with the SCO developing as an economic/security powerhouse. In parallel, Pipelineistan may accelerate the full integration of the SCO as a counterpunch to NATO.

In realpolitik terms, that makes much more sense than a New Silk Road invented in Washington. But tell that to the Pentagon, or to a possible bomb Iran, scare China, neo-con-remote-controlled next president of the United States.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/148319-playing-chess-eurasia.html for full article

 

[Windjammer]

Far from an inquiry, seems the Yanks were busy cooking up a story.
If they think this will somehow ease the tension...it's going to be a long bleak winter for them.
Pakistan has already stressed merely an apology is not going to return the murdered sons of the soil.
Trigger happy cowboys must be brought under the sword.

 

[VCheng]

Please see bold part.
This is what i want to highlight as something they want us to digest but it is far from the ground reality when we review the capability of US forces and situational awareness, it is impossible that they had no idea whom they engaged or who engaged them.

They surely had their own coordinates and since they knew our post locations, would have been impossible not to realize that they need to inform our high command and ensure that there are no friendly casualties.
Pull out was the only way to proceed, instead they called in airstrikes at coordinates which were Pakistani posts.

I agree. Pakistan's official response should highlight all these errors on NATO's part strongly and repeatedly.

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

Please see bold part.
This is what i want to highlight as something they want us to digest but it is far from the ground reality when we review the capability of US forces and situational awareness, it is impossible that they had no idea whom they engaged or who engaged them.

They surely had their own coordinates and since they knew our post locations, would have been impossible not to realize that they need to inform our high command and ensure that there are no friendly casualties.
Pull out was the only way to proceed, instead they called in airstrikes at coordinates which were Pakistani posts.

Exactly! Moreover if the US forces were operating in their senses, then they should have realized the Pakistani flag on the check post.

 

[BATMAN]

@ windjamers comments: ^^This is exactly i what i felt but since it was a news report... i refrain to accept it as official version.

 

[Pioneerfirst]

keep in mind this inquiry has been done by the people who themselves had attacked,so there is no chance of being unbiased.

How can anyone declare himself KILLER

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

keep in mind this inquiry has been done by the people who themselves had attacked,so there is no chance of being unbiased.

How can anyone declare himself KILLER

even if they had declared themselves innocent, we knew the TRUTH.

ISPR has already said that the attack was done on purpose.

 

[lem34]

Simply american and pakistani interests are not the same. Nato pretends its fighting terrorism thats the only common denominator. Americans want india to play a part in afghanistan, nato wants to use afghanistan for geo political aims, hold back china russia, intimidate and abuse iranians. None which are in pak interests. this attack was deliberate and meant pressure pakistan PA and ISI into accepting their ulterior motives that are not in Pakistans interests and fall in line with the silk road crax. It was not an isolated case and should not be seen in that light we need to see this act in lines of actions taken from and including removing mushy onwards to demonise isolate pakistan to accept american diktat in the neighbourhood

 

[Windjammer]

@ windjamers comments: ^^This is exactly i what i felt but since it was a news report... i refrain to accept it as official version.

Yea dude, it seems they spin docs are just trying to soften the blow....no mention as why after repeated requests bt the PA, the attack continued and more over why did it resume after briefly pulling back. Nope, their home work is not up to the mark this time.