What's new

US plans to sell M777 howitzers to India; deal to involve 'Make in India' component

Do we need the OM's support after purchase for repair/maint,?
It depends on the level of ToT given- the FH-77Bs came with full ToT that allowed India to produce them from the ground up in India, that these plans sat idle literally in some MoD file cabinet for decades untouched is another matter.
 
.
M777 can be underslung from a helicopter. Nexter Ceasar or BAE Archer can't.

A compromise is the Supacat portee option available for M777: it can either tow or carry the howitzer while both elements can be transported seperately.

The main advantage of Portee is the fact that the unit can be split into two loads slung under a transport helicopter.

The complete M777 Portee System weighs about 12.3 tons (with gun) and can be carried inside a C-130 Hercules transport aircraft, just like Archer and Ceasar.

Portee Artillery Support vehicle


Good solutions sir jee.
But here the case is that of India's , even if we succeed in procuring the more conventional and simple systems planned... a big win.
 
.
M777 can be underslung from a helicopter. Nexter Ceasar or BAE Archer can't.

A compromise is the Supacat portee option available for M777: it can either tow or carry the howitzer while both elements can be transported seperately.

The main advantage of Portee is the fact that the unit can be split into two loads slung under a transport helicopter.

The complete M777 Portee System weighs about 12.3 tons (with gun) and can be carried inside a C-130 Hercules transport aircraft, just like Archer and Ceasar.

Portee Artillery Support vehicle

AFAIK the M777 arty tractors are going to be TATA trucks (LPTA 1623 6X6 most likely). But you make a very valid point about the air-mobility of this gun, that is the primary consideration behind its purchase, alongside the IAF's CH-47Fs:

ORD_M777_Canadian_Under_CH-47_lg.jpg
vl04-2015-0004-023.jpg



7261351984_305aef2767_b.jpg
 
.
M777_155mm_Lightweight_Howitzer_BAE_Systems_DSEI_2015_news_coverage_2.jpg


The gun is towed from a towing eye located under the muzzle brake and can be easily towed with a prime mover of 4 - 5 tonnes. It can be towed by much lighter vehicles where terrain permits.

The U.S. military tows the M777 with the 5 tonne M900 truck, the Family of Medium Tactical Vehicles (FMTV) and Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement (MTVR) vehicles at speeds of 88kph on primary roads, 56kph on secondary roads and 24kph cross-country.

For moving the M777 locally around the gun position or further, smaller vehicles such as the All-Terrain Mobility Platform (ATMP) ‘Supacat’ 6x6 is ideal. [see above]
 
.
M777 and MSG such as Nexter and Ceaser are for different set of requirements right? M777 is a light weight lesser caliber weapon where MSGs are higher ones?
 
. .
M777 and MSG such as Nexter and Ceaser are for different set of requirements right? M777 is a light weight lesser caliber weapon where MSGs are higher ones?
Indeed, the M777 is for the MSC and the key element is being air mobile (ie can be underslung from a CH-47F). The MGS (and SPG) are for rapid movement of firepower to keep up with the Intergrated Battle Groups (IBGs) that will contain MGS, MBTs, IFVs, BTT, SAMs, and all associated support vehicles. The idea is for self contained elements able to make rapid thrusts into enemy territory independantly.

So the MGS and SPG can move along providing firepower as they go (it takes seconds for them to halt, deploy, fire and "scoot").
 
.
Indeed, the M777 is for the MSC and the key element is being air mobile (ie can be underslung from a CH-47F). The MGS (and SPG) are for rapid movement of firepower to keep up with the Intergrated Battle Groups (IBGs) that will contain MGS, MBTs, IFVs, BTT, SAMs, and all associated support vehicles. The idea is for self contained elements able to make rapid thrusts into enemy territory independantly.

So the MGS and SPG can move along providing firepower as they go (it takes seconds for them to halt, deploy, fire and "scoot").

ohh..So advantage is if you have a truck mounted M777 system then that can be used in tandem, right?
 
.
M777 and MSG such as Nexter and Ceaser are for different set of requirements right? M777 is a light weight lesser caliber weapon where MSGs are higher ones?
Ceasar and Archer are 155mm/52 while M777 is 155mm/39. Same calibre, different barrel length.

M77 effective firing ranges with different ammo:
M107: 24 km (14.9 mi)
ERFB-BB: 30km (18.6 mi)
Excalibur: 40km (25 mi)

Nexter Ceasar
Bonus round with two smart anti-tank submunitions 34km.
Ogre submunitions dispenser shell 35km
Extended range full bore – base bleed (ERFB-BB) 42km.
Rocket assisted shells 50+km

BAE Archer
30 km with standard shells,
Bofors/Nexter Bonus rounds 35 km
40 km with ERFB-BB
Raytheon/Bofors XM982 Excalibur 60 km
 
.
ohh..So advantage is if you have a truck mounted M777 system then that can be used in tandem, right?
There would be little benefit to a truck mounted M777 as its primary benefit is being light weight and thus air-mobile. The M777 is made from a high degree of lightweight materials such as titanium but this also makes it comparable expensive. For MGS/SPG, longer barrels are used for greater range.
 
.
Ceasar and Archer are 155mm/52 while M777 is 155mm/39. Same calibre, different barrel length.

M77 effective firing ranges with different ammo:
M107: 24 km (14.9 mi)
ERFB-BB: 30km (18.6 mi)
Excalibur: 40km (25 mi)

Nexter Ceasar
Bonus round with two smart anti-tank submunitions 34km.
Ogre submunitions dispenser shell 35km
Extended range full bore – base bleed (ERFB-BB) 42km.
Rocket assisted shells 50+km

BAE Archer
30 km with standard shells,
Bofors/Nexter Bonus rounds 35 km
40 km with ERFB-BB
Raytheon/Bofors XM982 Excalibur 60 km

Got it...So tell me, in our western eastern mountainous terrain, I believe the M777 and the MSGs will not be operating togather at one given time, or will they? What I believe that M777 as a stationary launcher will be used later or before before the IBGs will launch their assault?
 
.
Got it...So tell me, in our western mountainous terrain, I believe the M777 and the MSGs will not be operating togather at one given time, or will they? What I believe that M777 as a stationary launcher will be used later or before before the IBGs will launch their assault?
M777s are meant primarily for the MSCs (ie the Eastern theatre).
 
. .
Obviously these will be used against Pakistan. The Indian answer will be the limp argument its against China. By saying that, they dont want to admit us worthy of being an opponent as to them it diminishes their perceived 'world power' status.

Pakistan too should do the cry baby stuff that India did on purchase of merely 8 F-16s.
 
.
Obviously these will be used against Pakistan. The Indian answer will be the limp argument its against China. By saying that, they dont want to admit us worthy of being an opponent as to them it diminishes their perceived 'world power' status.

Pakistan too should do the cry baby stuff that India did on purchase of merely 8 F-16s.

Pakistan will too get the taste of M777s in case of hostilities, but only in mountains of Kashmir.
Not down in the plains, it will be a waste of resources.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom