US plans to keep nine military bases in Afghanistan: Karzai

[Gandhi G in da house]

In one aspect it is great to see USA is committed to the stability of Afghanistan. Who in the right mind could oppose it.


But on a different aspect, it is said to see otherwise sane Indians jumping up and down, going paagal, going mad with happiness, going hoarse in spiting few Pakistanis that goras are coming, goras are coming, and goras are going to make bases.

I mean what is this?

Slave-to-gora mentality at its worst.

Same Slavish mentality, same leg-pulling that let 3500 Britishers to occupy and control millions of people in such a vast area as the subcontinent.


200 years later, the same old mentality shines through your post bro.

The same old mentality.


As if we have learned nothing, zero, zilch, nada, shunni, fing infinitesimally small.



Afghanistan is our backyard.


Indians and Pakistanis make it damn sure that they create stability and harmony.


Instead we were doing all we can to lower our shalwars and pants in front of soldiers who have to come from 10000s of miles away to do what?

That we the fing Asians do not cut each others throats.

what is this.

what type of fing madness is this?


Don't we have any sense that this is our backyard and India and Pakistan being the biggest players, must sit together and manage this tiny place, a smaller population like that of Lahore (not even Karachi), make them live better, give them education, food and water.

But No.


This Durand line issue must be brought up, these fing talb-b@stards must be supported or killed,

With no inclination whatsoever to sit together like humans and resolve our differences and help each other.

Fing no. some Indians of all people who are now settled in far off places must fan the fires of hatred to the point that goras have to come rule our @rses (even when they are begging us to be human with each other), but we remain taunting each other like fing chimps,beating their chests, and growling. Yeah chimps.


peace

I don't know where in my post i exhibited any slavish mentality.

All i stated was my understanding that America would want more than just 2 bases in Afghanistan.

Personally , I do believe Afghanistan needs NATO to be around till the time that ANA is not strong enough to secure the country from Taliban takeover, which I believe they are not completely yet.As an Indian, I have enough reason to not want a Taliban ruled Afghanistan and if you are wise , even you shouldn't want that.

Lastly, Afghanistan is not backyard of either India or Pakistan. We have never treated that country as our backyard. It is sovereign nation.It is this Pakistani mentality that has led to all the death and destruction in both Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Instead of asking me to change my mentality, I would request you to take good , hard look at yours.

 

[Sinnerman108]

@FaujHistorian

Please let me add some more points.

1. Afghans not only need to import, but the only export / business they do is also dependent on Pakistan.
These include drugs, weapons, prostitution, kidnapping etc.

2. The type of Afghans that Ayatullahs want to trade with are in the north, whereas the types of Afghans that Ayatullahs do not want to trade with are the ones that actually border with Iran.

Lastly, if Chaharbar is all that rosy then why isn't it churning out billions as yet ?

The fact that Indians have to gang up and defend relentlessly shows insecurity at some level.

 

[FaujHistorian]

@FaujHistorian

Please let me add some more points.

1. Afghans not only need to import, but the only export / business they do is also dependent on Pakistan.
These include drugs, weapons, prostitution, kidnapping etc.

2. The type of Afghans that Ayatullahs want to trade with are in the north, whereas the types of Afghans that Ayatullahs do not want to trade with are the ones that actually border with Iran.

Lastly, if Chaharbar is all that rosy then why isn't it churning out billions as yet ?

The fact that Indians have to gang up and defend relentlessly shows insecurity at some level.

On a positive side, Afghanistganis can export minerals from their own mines, and be a "land bridge" for oil, gas, and electricity.


The only pre-condition is that they must settle down, lower their shouting, and cursing.

some elements in Pakistani society support Talib-B@stards. You betcha.

But mainstream Paks in the military and civilians like me, do not support Talbi-b@stards and we all do want to respect Afghanistanis.

Hell, we already do.

We take care of Afghani women and children in this very day while their husbands and fathers work in Afghanistan and rebuild Afghanistan.


But all these POSITIVE actions by sane and MAJORITY Pakistanis get no credence, and some like Nick_Indian or Afghanistanis on this board cannot stop yelling and cursing at us.



I mean how many Indian posters on this very board support Pakistan-Afghanistan border to be fully respected?



How many?


1 may be or 2?


The rest are just being merasis and bhaands, drumming up hatred between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

One can see this thread and at least two others, where every chimp is beating his chest, trying to prove that India is bigger, and Afgthanistan can beat the cr@p out of Pakistan.

What kind of mentality is that? Surely the one belongs to chimps.

surely that belongs to primitive tribals.


peace


p.s. Some $tupid posters from our Eastern neighbor think that Cha-Bhar-at got discovered by Indians in 2012. These idiots do not know that Cha-Bhar has been there from time immemorial.

 

[Secur]

Lastly, if Chaharbar is all that rosy then why isn't it churning out billions as yet ?

Leave Chahbahar aside , does Iran only have one port ?

Transit trade can be routed from other ports too , I think the Arabs have better relations with Pakistan than with Iran - a sanctioned country . That is another story that Ayatollahs want to deal with only a particular group of people which aren't found in the areas bordering Iran .

 

[illusion8]

That is a work in progress. It will be needed by Afghanistan to start with. Then the countries operating in Afghanistan are likely to need it too. It will also be a revenue earner for Iran. Apart from earning goodwill for Iran and helping it to rehabilitate its image in the International Arena.

The reason I am asking is the Americans planning to over stay in Afghanistan and manage their security scenario, roads and rails, dams, power and economy would not / will allow India to conduct trade that transits through Iran or develop infrastructure to connect Afg with Iran (not sure of the present progress of this project) - my guess. They'll want limited Iranian involvement, or Afghanistan dependent on Iran for anything.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Historian - you nailed it my nigga

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The reason I am asking is the Americans planning to over stay in Afghanistan and manage their security scenario, roads and rails, dams, power and economy would not / will allow India to conduct trade that transits through Iran or develop infrastructure to connect Afg with Iran (not sure of the present progress of this project) - my guess. They'll want limited Iranian involvement, or Afghanistan dependent on Iran for anything.

No. The hard and harsh reality is that the region cannot be stabilised without Iran being involved. That reality has already begun to dawn on the Americans. Read up on Robert B. Kaplan's views; you will then understand why Chuck Hagel will give a new trajectory (slowly and eventually) to Iran-US realtions.
Even the EU has accepted that fact. As for Russia; it has been their considered view all along. And that is precisely what India has advocated with the Americans at nearly every Strategic Dialog. Notice how the Americans have reacted to the Indian need for Oil. It has had a role in persuading KSA to step in as part supplier as well as tacitly accept India's alternative arrangements with Iran to pay for Iranian Oil. On the IPI pipeline; while USA has taken the official line of discouraging India from joining, the real facts are that India and Iran have not been able to agree on the pricing formula as well as the fact that 'nobody on earth' can guarantee the security of the pipeline after it crosses the border into Pakistan. Which is why one "I" is still absent from the project. But India has just started talking about investing more money into upgrading Chah Bahar. What do you read from that?

Now about infrastructure in Iran to connect to Afghanistan: while USA still has hesitation to deal directly with Iran on this matter due to political reasons, it has a way out. India will come in as both facilitator and operator of the system. First in Chah Bahar; then onward in the Road-Rail link to Afghanistan. Afghanistan has lent support for this scheme. For two reasons; it will be an enabler for Afghanistan to keep relations with Iran settled and as an alternative to the overland route through Pakistan which will become increasingly tenous in time. Afghanistan cannot afford the luxury of single routes going into the future when instability is going to increase. This "Via Iran" route has already been discussed with Beijing; let me assure you. Even Beijing is interested in secured routes specifically and stabilising Afghanistan generally; considering that China is making investments in Afghanistan.

So American objections/obstruction to another link to Afghanistan via Iran is neither a given nor a permanent matter. Watch the further movements.

 

[illusion8]

No. The hard and harsh reality is that the region cannot be stabilised without Iran being involved. That reality has already begun to dawn on the Americans. Read up on Robert B. Kaplan's views; you will then understand why Chuck Hagel will give a new trajectory (slowly and eventually) to Iran-US realtions.
Even the EU has accepted that fact. As for Russia; it has been their considered view all along. And that is precisely what India has advocated with the Americans at nearly every Strategic Dialog. Notice how the Americans have reacted to the Indian need for Oil. It has had a role in persuading KSA to step in as part supplier as well as tacitly accept India's alternative arrangements with Iran to pay for Iranian Oil. On the IPI pipeline; while USA has taken the official line of discouraging India from joining, the real facts are that India and Iran have not been able to agree on the pricing formula as well as the fact that 'nobody on earth' can guarantee the security of the pipeline after it crosses the border into Pakistan. Which is why one "I" is still absent from the project. But India has just started talking about investing more money into upgrading Chah Bahar. What do you read from that?

Now about infrastructure in Iran to connect to Afghanistan: while USA still has hesitation to deal directly with Iran on this matter due to political reasons, it has a way out. India will come in as both facilitator and operator of the system. First in Chah Bahar; then onward in the Road-Rail link to Afghanistan. Afghanistan has lent support for this scheme. For two reasons; it will be an enabler for Afghanistan to keep relations with Iran settled and as an alternative to the overland route through Pakistan which will become increasingly tenous in time. Afghanistan cannot afford the luxury of single routes going into the future when instability is going to increase. This "Via Iran" route has already been discussed with Beijing; let me assure you. Even Beijing is interested in secured routes specifically and stabilising Afghanistan generally; considering that China is making investments in Afghanistan.

So American objections/obstruction to another link to Afghanistan via Iran is neither a given nor a permanent matter. Watch the further movements.

Makes a lot of sense,

Even the rhetoric against Iran from the US has died down, but I don't know how the US will justify it's tilt towards Iran to it's traditional allies in the ME and most importantly to Israel - I guess it will leave India to take care of that bit.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Makes a lot of sense,

Even the rhetoric against Iran from the US has died down, but I don't know how the US will justify it's tilt towards Iran to it's traditional allies in the ME and most importantly to Israel - I guess it will leave India to take care of that bit.

Lets recognise some realities: USA and some NATO countries will stay on in a continued presence in Afganistan; Afghanistan will again face turmoil (but lesser than the last bout of Taliban success); the area bordering Pakistan will become increasingly unstable (with all the attendant issues for Pakistan); there will be increasing commercial interest in Afghanistan by counties around the world (notably China); now many more countries will involved in attempts to stabilise Afghanistan (including Russia and CARs); Iran will be increasingly tapped (by all countries) to provide facilities to sustain Afghanistan.

Now try to work out how that will take place.

 

[illusion8]

Lets recognise some realities: USA and some NATO countries will stay on in a continued presence in Afganistan; Afghanistan will again face turmoil (but lesser than the last bout of Taliban success); the area bordering Pakistan will become increasingly unstable (with all the attendant issues for Pakistan); there will be increasing commercial interest in Afghanistan by counties around the world (notably China); now many more countries will involved in attempts to stabilise Afghanistan (including Russia and CARs); Iran will be increasingly tapped (by all countries) to provide facilities to sustain Afghanistan.

Now try to work out how that will take place.

Russia and China getting involved in Afghanistan with a big US presence still there practically managing Afghanistan? - is that possible?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Russia and China getting involved in Afghanistan with a big US presence still there practically managing Afghanistan? - is that possible?

Yes it is and will happen. Russia is not looking to set up a presence in Aghanistan; its only looking to stabilise its southern flank and then concentrate on strengthening its own interests in the CARs. China's interest in Afghanistan is strictly commercial, while it concentrates on settling Xingjiang. All multilateral interests can be and will be accommodated this time.

 

[illusion8]

Yes it is and will happen. Russia is not looking to set up a presence in Aghanistan; its only looking to stabilise its southern flank and then concentrate on strengthening its own interests in the CARs. China's interest in Afghanistan is strictly commercial, while it concentrates on settling Xingjiang. All multilateral interests can be and will be accommodated this time.

This is a very peculiar situation - the first of its kind where US, Russia, India, China - even Iran seem to be wanting the same thing all at once. Though China, Russia and Iran would worry about the US's military presence there.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

This is a very peculiar situation - the first of its kind where US, Russia, India, China - even Iran seem to be wanting the same thing all at once. Though China and Russia would worry about the US's military presence there.

About the continuing US military presence in Afghanistan; only China has some concerns, but they are tempered with the sanguine realisation that US Military absence will lead to a free-for-all. Which can cause problems in Xinjiang. So it will be cautiously tolerant of the US presence. What do you think is the Iranian reaction to the idea of US bases? Does it feel threatened by them?

 

[illusion8]

About the continuing US military presence in Afghanistan; only China has some concerns, but they are tempered with the sanguine realisation that US Military absence will lead to a free-for-all. Which can cause problems in Xinjiang. So it will be cautiously tolerant of the US presence. What do you think is the Iranian reaction to the idea of US bases? Does it feel threatened by them?

They feel surrounded from all sides, last thing they'll want is US bases in Afg sending drones (that's what's happening presently) to spy on Iran.

Why would Russia not be concerned? - they hold their control over the CA countries very dearly - and the US signing multiple deals both for transit and supply of weapons with a few CAS countries as an attempt to undermine them.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

They feel surrounded from all sides, last thing they'll want is US bases in Afg sending drones (that's what's happening presently) to spy on Iran.

Yes and No. While the Iranians feel concerned about the US presence; it is not a morbid fear. Once the Iran-US relationship sees a thaw (which is inevitable and imminent) even that will be just a passing matter.