US plans breakthrough military plane sale to India

[Bull]

It was a joke..

Also...400 fighters are enough. Our military is limited with funds.. we focus more on education, development and welfare of the citizens.

Mine too was a joke...cheers!!!

 

[EagleEyes]

Lol....Asim i didnt know you were so ignorant of whats happening around. India just signed a deal to buy more 350 T-90 from Russia worth....****....then there is the 5th gen plane, then the multirole plane....then there is the 200MRCA deal...then the smerch deal....then the destroyers....then the nuke submarines....

^Other than a stop gap solution for the T-90 tanks (only if Arjun ever comes) there is nothing confirmed to bought by the Russians.. no deal signed.. no funding given..

 

[1pakistan]

And to the Pakistani members here, India is no Pakistan that it well be a sex slave for the US, use and throw.

Well less not travel toward this kind of attitude. Now When we have discussion it is always wise to bring in some significant sources to back up your claims or else it is use less to discuss such issues. So bring evidence of what ur claiming...

PS: btw do use google search function and be amazed that India and Thailand are the only country in Asia that have "child sex tourism" especially for foreigners. I dont want to turn this thread into some flame war but as i said comments which uve just made are not neccessary so avoid them.

You dont have money to buy planes to fully equip PAF and here you are talking about buying opanes for target practice....lol.....

Well that is rather surprsing and again as i said earlier ill say it again without sources ur claims sound like a "wet dream" or prehaps even wishful thinking.. Now pakistan is paying $5billion+ for F-16. SOme of the F-16 are those obtained in 80s and not delivered... Now ontop of that Pakistan is negoiating with China for 36 J-10 it might even go up as well as co-producing 150 Jf-17 which is most likely to go up to 250. In addition Pakistan is gonna have special unit of Jf-17 with AESA radar, when and where are still unknown....

There is also negoiation for AWACS and the number will be close to 12 AWACS. Does this look like cash stripped Air Force maybe to u but not to me.

Also there are many other deals happening in bakground or are on card but on hold until there upgradation take place. One of the unknown or deal on after burner is regarding another plane purchase as Hinted by ACM... Will it be European plane it looks like that way, though not sure which one but EUROFIGHTER has been linked to Pakistan when Turkey got production facility for it...

Lol....Asim i didnt know you were so ignorant of whats happening around. India just signed a deal to buy more 350 T-90 from Russia worth....****....then there is the 5th gen plane, then the multirole plane....then there is the 200MRCA deal...then the smerch deal....then the destroyers....then the nuke submarines....

A fency word which should not be used when it could equally be applied to u (no offence intended). Now let me tackle each of the above one by one and mate i find it joke of the century....


350 T-90 from Russia worth:

no one is denying it and no one cares in pakistan. Im surprised uve quoted it too small i thought it was above 600 due to the fact ARJUN the fat pig is still not avaiable and when it is only 124 will be purchased quite amazing, there we follow up orders. Now having T-90 is one thing and them working is another.

"Flaws in T 90 Main Battle Tanks troubles Indian Army"
http://www.india-defence.com/reports/2081

im trying to locate the latest news which came out week ago abt problem with the tank due to "quick purchase and induction and thus compromised the quality which is not haunting t 90".


there is the 5th gen plane,:

Im pretty sure ur talking abt PAK-FA if so than where is PAK-FA. It was claimed by indian sources PAK-FA will be flying in year 2007 and we are already in 2007. Oh i forgot u cant fly something without an "engine".. Now i understand the what happend to super dupper PAK-FA.

http://*****************/5th-gen-fighter-engine-dogfight/

https://defence.pk/forums/showthread.php?t=5424

then the multirole plane....then there is the 200MRCA deal

Whats the difference between MULTIROLE and MRCA.... BTW MRCA is 120 odd planes and not 200. Oh now where is MRCA, ive been hearing abt it for last 5 years at least and still no MRCA. Can u tell me which plane is MRCA or at least u might know abt when MRCA tender will be given. U know what i too can live in FANTACY and claim tht Pakistan will have F-22 and how will u defeat us with F-22 but that is not realistic approach to it. is it??

 

[Bull]

Well less not travel toward this kind of attitude. Now When we have discussion it is always wise to bring in some significant sources to back up your claims or else it is use less to discuss such issues. So bring evidence of what ur claiming...

Of Pakistan being a sex slave, i dont have any. My counter point was towards to the attitude shown by the other member.

PS: btw do use google search function and be amazed that India and Thailand are the only country in Asia that have "child sex tourism" especially for foreigners. I dont want to turn this thread into some flame war but as i said comments which uve just made are not neccessary so avoid them.

I am aware.

Well that is rather surprsing and again as i said earlier ill say it again without sources ur claims sound like a "wet dream" or prehaps even wishful thinking.. Now pakistan is paying $5billion+ for F-16. SOme of the F-16 are those obtained in 80s and not delivered... Now ontop of that Pakistan is negoiating with China for 36 J-10 it might even go up as well as co-producing 150 Jf-17 which is most likely to go up to 250. In addition Pakistan is gonna have special unit of Jf-17 with AESA radar, when and where are still unknown....

150 JF-17 is what is confirmed.

There is also negoiation for AWACS and the number will be close to 12 AWACS. Does this look like cash stripped Air Force maybe to u but not to me.

Ofcourse it is a cash strapped one.

350 T-90 from Russia worth:

the total is more than 1600...350 is the last order.

there is the 5th gen plane,:
Im pretty sure ur talking abt PAK-FA if so than where is PAK-FA. It was claimed by indian sources PAK-FA will be flying in year 2007 and we are already in 2007. Oh i forgot u cant fly something without an "engine".. Now i understand the what happend to super dupper PAK-FA.

U need to read up a lot.

Whats the difference between MULTIROLE and MRCA....

transport and fighter...hell of a difference.

 

[1pakistan]

towards to the attitude shown by the other member.
I am aware.

well first what attitude ur talking abt. U made a point which in my eyes was right out of the bak side and which does not have any relvance to the thread. Now any stupid remarks are not acceptable. Though u can enjoy being here since this is not india and u wont be shot for taking injured to hospital..

Of Pakistan being a sex slave, i dont have any. My counter point was
150 JF-17 is what is confirmed.
Ofcourse it is a cash strapped one.
the total is more than 1600...350 is the last order.
U need to read up a lot.
transport and fighter...hell of a difference.

Again there is no point discussion. BTW u seem to me a confused fella. First u mention mutli role and now ur talking abt transport. Y not work our what u really talking abt and than start t post.

BTW: REFERNCE IS BIG WAY OF HELPING UR CLAIMS.... so Nothing from the bak side please.

 

[Bull]

Though u can enjoy being here since this is not india and u wont be shot for taking injured to hospital....

Well i guess this being Pakistan you would be blown up!!! Is that what you meant.

Again there is no point discussion. BTW u seem to me a confused fella. First u mention mutli role and now ur talking abt transport. Y not work our what u really talking abt and than start t post..

wtf??? Its a multirole transport and MRCA....both different deals...trying reading a bit more.

 

[Samudra]

We buy planes, we become puppets.
What of those who get regular monthly payments and free goodies once in a while ? How low does that go ?

Jokes apart, it is quite funny that people think we'd be a puppet.

Sorry but you're not only wrong you're being naive and somethingmorethanthat. Smacks of utter lack of any cursory knowledge about Indian policies in the past.

 

[Neo]

We buy planes, we become puppets.
What of those who get regular monthly payments and free goodies once in a while ? How low does that go ?

Nothing's for free mate, US is getting much more from us in return in terms of geo-political interests. Whatever Pakistan is being rewarded is peanuts when compared to other nations.
Just for your information, Turkey demanded some $30-35 billion from US for her support in Desert Shield as compensation for economic loss. Pakistan is getting a pathetic amount of $80 million per month for WoT.

Jokes apart, it is quite funny that people think we'd be a puppet.

Its even funnier to see that you don't realise it. Dude, look around and learn.

Sorry but you're not only wrong you're being naive and somethingmorethanthat. Smacks of utter lack of any cursory knowledge about Indian policies in the past.

I hate to say this but this Indian supremacy is really starting to annoy me. How less you know about US politics...

 

[Bull]

Nothing's for free mate, US is getting much more from us in return in terms of geo-political interests. Whatever Pakistan is being rewarded is peanuts when compared to other nations.

Isnt thats what is called being a puppet???

 

[Neo]

Well lets say that it takes two to tango. We're not alone in this game, US is dancing along and has the lead.

 

[Samudra]

Nothing's for free mate, US is getting much more from us in return in terms of geo-political interests.....Pakistan is getting a pathetic amount of $80 million per month for WoT.

Which is exactly the point I'm trying to make.

Why should Pakistan offer to do so much for such a pathetic amount of Money ? Turkey had the guts to demand more.

Pakistan is well..available for pathetic amounts of money and free goodies? Dont even make the argument about Pakistan wanting to get rid of terrorists or the Taliban. Just too much blood in the hand already to make such a point.

What country was GWB speaking about when he uttered the famous phrase 'with us or against us' ? And what spectacular U-turns Musharaff can make!

Has any of this happened to India ? Have we compromised on our territorial sovereignty over an entire province like Pakistan ? Exactly what compromises has India made vis a vis the US ? What are these things you speak of that makes us a puppet of the USA ? The nuclear deal ?

I hate to say this but this Indian supremacy is really starting to annoy me. How less you know about US politics..

I'm afraid nobody made the argument about anybody being superior. Infact we're being labelled inferior for buying all of half a dozen aircrafts!!!

And we're just not afraid to engage the USA. We're not intimidated by their hyper-powerdom or hyper-smartness.

 

[Neo]

Which is exactly the point I'm trying to make.

Why should Pakistan offer to do so much for such a pathetic amount of Money ? Turkey had the guts to demand more.

Pakistan is well..available for pathetic amounts of money and free goodies? Dont even make the argument about Pakistan wanting to get rid of terrorists or the Taliban. Just too much blood in the hand already to make such a point.

Its called real-politic mate. Pakistan got more out of the deal than just hard cash. Think about sanctions, debt relief, access to weapons markets etc.

What country was GWB speaking about when he uttered the famous phrase 'with us or against us' ? And what spectacular U-turns Musharaff can make!

That has nothing to do with Pakistan, if India shared border with Afghanistan and denied a free passage thru its airspace same message would have been sent to Delhi. Nothing ever gets in uncle's way, not even India!
How did Musharraf compromise its integrity or Pakistan's souvereignity by giving into US'demands? Any head, elected or dictator would have done the same as it was the only right thing to do. Musharraf did a brilliant and brave job by siding with Bush in a country that has come to regard the USA as an anti muslim, anti Pakistan agressor.
Remember, politics is ever self serving, our interests come first.

Has any of this happened to India ? Have we compromised on our territorial sovereignty over an entire province like Pakistan ?

Well you're certainly heading that way...time will tell.

Exactly what compromises has India made vis a vis the US ? What are these things you speak of that makes us a puppet of the USA ? The nuclear deal ?

Indian stance on Iran for one...just before you entered into nuke deal talks with the US an Iranian nave wessel was seen in Indian military base...India was building Chah bahar to counter Gwadar. A prominent Indian nuclear scientist was reported seen in Iran...all that and more was simply denied or refuted by the government. All of sudden India rejected Iran's nuke programme in support of US' compain to bring Iran before the UNSC.
If your foreign policy is that independant, why the sudden U-turn mate???

And you of all people know how the opposition is rejecting the nuclear deal, you'll be compromising more than gaining from it.

I'm afraid nobody made the argument about anybody being superior. Infact we're being labelled inferior for buying all of half a dozen aircrafts!!!

Not my words...

And we're just not afraid to engage the USA. We're not intimidated by their hyper-powerdom or hyper-smartness.[/QUOTE]

 

[Samudra]

If your foreign policy is that independant, why the sudden U-turn mate???

I'm yet to witness a U-turn. Foreign policy in India does not work that way.

We're still talking about the IPI, are we not ? We've had five rounds of talks so far. Are we denying that ?

When the head of a country goes around and says we want to wipe off Israel from the map - the very same Israel that has supplied so much weaponry in times of crisis to us, do you then expect us to be support Iran in their pursuit of nuclear weapons ?

We're still supplying arms to the Myanmar military. We're still having some nice little joint exercises with the Chinese after having some exercises with Japan. We're engaging everybody within our reach. The nuclear deal with the USA is just one of the many many initiatives.There is a bloody huge initiative with Japan in the works.

Independent foreign policy is not having to do with being or supporting a rogue. Independent foreign policy is not about opposing the US.

In reality independent foreign policy is about bearing national interests and national interests alone in the minds of people conducting the external affairs of the country and not acting against national interests due to external threats.

If we did not have an independent foreign policy we wouldn't have developed nuclear weapons. Does that mean we go fight the US at every available opportunity ?

 

[Samudra]

The nuclear deal.

It was the BJP that sowed the seeds of this deal. Now they sit in the opposition and makes sure the government does no wrong. When they come back to power they're going to do the same things the Congress government is doing today.

You cannot miss the continuity in the thought process and major policies we undertake despite having governments that appear to be working like a circus.

The government has already stated what things it will compromise and what issues it will not. I'm fine with the way this deal is going now. Ofcourse, there are critics. What thing can you find in India without critics having a go at it at some point of time?

It is being paranoid to think that engaging the US in any form is becoming puppet. That is a pretty scary scenario.

If its all about becoming puppet we wont find the US officials crying out loud about how greedy Indians can get.

I'm also baffled at the manner in which the critics of this deal point out the difficulties in the deal. For lords sake, the deal is about setting right the mistakes of the past thirty years.

With two huge governments and their lengthy procedural legal, political and anotherhalfadozen obligations it is only natural that the deal will run into problems. With extremely competent people running the show we'll see the deal become a success. Just give it time.

 

[Neo]

Sam, maybe I should have been more specific when talking about the U-turn. India distanced itself from Iran to appease USA and not to harm ongoing nuke deal talks. Otherwise Iran was considered an assett in India's doctrine of engulfing Pakistan.

You're already in Tajikistan and Afghanistan, Iran would complete the grip on the region. But you let it go when you voted against Iran.

As far as the IPI is concerned, scrap the last 'I' since there won't be any. India is only delaying the progress and both Iran and Pakistan have come to realise that, a bilateral agreement will be finalised by the end of June as per latest reports. With or without india!
The reason is simple, further delay in IPI will hurt Pakistan's growing demand for energy where as India will start producing gas from Andaman Islands by the end of 2010. She's not serious.