US Pilot: Thanks To Espionage, Chinese Stealth Fighters Could Match The F-35

[Cat Shannon]

exactly my thought...

just like revisiting Russian Nuclear Secrets theft.

some times I wonder why so many common chapters in between Cold War and Cold War 2.0.

because that's the natural route to take.

 

[GR!FF!N]

China has made a tremendous headway in all fields, the j-31 being as good as f-35 doesn't come as a surprise at all.

i doubt this one..USA always hype opponent's weapons capability to secure more funds and to make newer platforms.its a known tactics.and F-35 is still evolving.

if only looks would make the aircraft stealthy..

 

[sherin616]

Good news for china

 

[DirtyCop]

i doubt this one..USA always hype opponent's weapons capability to secure more funds and to make newer platforms.its a known tactics.and F-35 is still evolving.

if only looks would make the aircraft stealthy..

Unlike you, i am not taking "western approvals" of Chinese tech to determine how prudent they actually are. So kindly keep your views to yourself.......i know what i am talking about and where China really stands.

 

[Donatello]

correct. but what has that got to do with a bit of propaganda in peace time ? nothing, unrelated stuff. this is a psy trap. my point here is, US pilot saying that is actually helping that US pilot. That's why he says it. it's reverse psychology.




those conflicts were basically guerilla wars, a war with China is not gonna be fought on mountains or swampy lands it first will be fought on the high sea.. and what failure, US never wanted to colonise Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam, they did their thing in both Iraq and Afghanistan and left, objective achieved. Who said US has to nurse these countries back to a first world country. that expectation is of a handout nature.

The pilot made the comments because maybe he saw something? Here are the things needed for a stealth aircraft design:
1-Lots of money, China has it, so issues there

2-The mathematics pertaining to the structure/shape. Since USA did all the hardwork with those trapezoid and flat angles, you don't have to repeat it yourself. Newton presented calculus to us. You can do that all over again and arrive at the same result. Or simply use it the way it is meant to be used. Engineering is all about putting to use those equations. We don't give a shyt why an equation works the way it works. We need to know how and where to use it. So lots of stealth design literature is available. Hence, all the 'stealth' designs in operation (B2, F117,F22,F35) have similar geometry. Is it any surprise that the Russian T-50 and Chinese J-20 end up with the same? So that bulk of the work has already been cut short for you.

3-Electronics, which are jammers, weapons guidance, avionics FBW, radars etc, this is something where China lacks, but has made tremendous gains due to inputs from Russia (AESA, seekers etc) and PAKISTAN (F-16 blk15 cockpit design is masterpiece itself) Pakistan showed the China how west went about doing it's man machine interface, a department where even the Russians struggled. (Check the initial F-16 cockpit interface compared to a Mig29)

4-Engines. Low heat, high thrust, high reliability. This is the biggest challenge for China. Since metallurgy is extremely hard to copy and produce, they are stuck there, but eventually will get there. Check F-22's engines. Each engine is extremely powerful and reliable.

5-The usual finishing touches like reduce your electronic and radio leakage, RAM coating, metal spheres in special paint over the body etc etc


So out of the 5 main challenges i highlighted (Please add any that i missed) China needs to work on the Engines most. Rest of it, they are catching up very fast.

Now, do you know how i know this? Because Electrical/Electronic/Optics engineering is where China is funding the most research at it's academic institutes. Take a trip to any major Western university and you'll find Chinese students doing their post graduate and PhDs in subjects like these..........high temperature SiC sensors, Diamond science and Technology, Photonics.....etc. They will be taking back this knowledge to China. A lot of them are funded by their government. Guess where they will end up working? Yes, the state owned defense firms.


So it is not if China can build a F-35 level fighter, but when and how soon. BTW, F-35 is no where near F-22, otherwise F-22 would be up for exports as well.

 

[MilSpec]

Except that China learned and went the way of opening itself up to the west, while Soviets, with their ego went bust. China's economy is now so huge that even if they grew at 5%, they would still be adding a lot more. So they can afford to develop weapons systems. Plus, the cost of hiring staff/contracts in China is just a fraction of in the USA. LM/GD are known to 'over charge' US DoD.........in China, most of them are government controlled. So they can really get more bang for the buck.

And even with the busted ego, russians are quite proficient in metallurgy, avionics, propulsion, guidance.... So much that even your workhorse is powered by a russian engine, not chinese.....

(F-16 blk15 cockpit design is masterpiece itself)

Bubble canopies have been in use since before World War II, with some experimental bubble canopy designs in the World War I era. The British had already developed the "Malcolm hood", which was a bulged canopy, but the British Miles M.20 was one of the first aircraft designs to feature a true bubble canopy. Although it never went into production the concept of the bubble canopy was utilised on other British aircraft, such as the Hawker Typhoon and Tempest. It was also fitted to the P-51 Mustang and P-47 Thunderbolt amongst others

 

[Akasa]

The pilot made the comments because maybe he saw something? Here are the things needed for a stealth aircraft design:
1-Lots of money, China has it, so issues there

2-The mathematics pertaining to the structure/shape. Since USA did all the hardwork with those trapezoid and flat angles, you don't have to repeat it yourself. Newton presented calculus to us. You can do that all over again and arrive at the same result. Or simply use it the way it is meant to be used. Engineering is all about putting to use those equations. We don't give a shyt why an equation works the way it works. We need to know how and where to use it. So lots of stealth design literature is available. Hence, all the 'stealth' designs in operation (B2, F117,F22,F35) have similar geometry. Is it any surprise that the Russian T-50 and Chinese J-20 end up with the same? So that bulk of the work has already been cut short for you.

3-Electronics, which are jammers, weapons guidance, avionics FBW, radars etc, this is something where China lacks, but has made tremendous gains due to inputs from Russia (AESA, seekers etc) and PAKISTAN (F-16 blk15 cockpit design is masterpiece itself) Pakistan showed the China how west went about doing it's man machine interface, a department where even the Russians struggled. (Check the initial F-16 cockpit interface compared to a Mig29)

4-Engines. Low heat, high thrust, high reliability. This is the biggest challenge for China. Since metallurgy is extremely hard to copy and produce, they are stuck there, but eventually will get there. Check F-22's engines. Each engine is extremely powerful and reliable.

5-The usual finishing touches like reduce your electronic and radio leakage, RAM coating, metal spheres in special paint over the body etc etc


So out of the 5 main challenges i highlighted (Please add any that i missed) China needs to work on the Engines most. Rest of it, they are catching up very fast.

Now, do you know how i know this? Because Electrical/Electronic/Optics engineering is where China is funding the most research at it's academic institutes. Take a trip to any major Western university and you'll find Chinese students doing their post graduate and PhDs in subjects like these..........high temperature SiC sensors, Diamond science and Technology, Photonics.....etc. They will be taking back this knowledge to China. A lot of them are funded by their government. Guess where they will end up working? Yes, the state owned defense firms.


So it is not if China can build a F-35 level fighter, but when and how soon. BTW, F-35 is no where near F-22, otherwise F-22 would be up for exports as well.

A good write up, but I'd like to point out one thing: electronics is most likely an area in which the Chinese excels, not lags. There are multiple institutions in which the Chinese do research on these systems, and have had a more comprehensive history than one might think. The Chinese built their first phased array radar (the 7010 complex) in the 70s, with naval and air based platforms following afterwards. They have installed, for example, AESA radars on the J-10B, J-16, and will soon do so for the J-15 and J-16. A huge research and manufacturing base / supply chain for chips and software exists in China, and like many other sectors of the civilian industries, the competitiveness of such could provide a huge advantage in the military sector.They select their avionics on a competition basis, backed by multiple bidders, which is something the likes of Russia simply doesn't have.

There was a quote, albeit dubious of its authoritativeness, supposedly from an American pilot who claimed that he feared Chinese aircraft more than their Russian equivalents simply due to their more powerful avionics.

 

[Donatello]

And even with the busted ego, russians are quite proficient in metallurgy, avionics, propulsion, guidance.... So much that even your workhorse is powered by a russian engine, not chinese.....


Bubble canopies have been in use since before World War II, with some experimental bubble canopy designs in the World War I era. The British had already developed the "Malcolm hood", which was a bulged canopy, but the British Miles M.20 was one of the first aircraft designs to feature a true bubble canopy. Although it never went into production the concept of the bubble canopy was utilised on other British aircraft, such as the Hawker Typhoon and Tempest. It was also fitted to the P-51 Mustang and P-47 Thunderbolt amongst others

Russians came up with excellent technology because, well, that is where they were spending most of their money at. Look at the cost they had to pay in terms of social development to make weapons. People dying of starvation yet you are able to put sputnik in space. And yet the Russians are so late on the 5th Gen bandwagon, no? With the ruble crashing, it is only a matter of time before Russians feel the pain, cold war style.

About your second quote, i didn't mention anything about the bubble canopy, but rather the FBW design of the cockpit. The ergonomics of it which made the man machine interface easier and f-16 a very easy plane to fly. Try to read properly next time.

 

[MilSpec]

Look at the cost they had to pay in terms of social development to make weapons. People dying of starvation yet you are able to put sputnik in space.

China is indeed a role model

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' - News - Books - The Independent

 

[Donatello]

China is indeed a role model

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' - News - Books - The Independent

Nope it is not. Neither is India or any other nation. But the point was, which you gladly hijacked and went about informing me about bubble canopy, that Russia spend all it's resources on Military and State security despite a struggling economy. It is not the same case in China, which has ample supply of cash and a fast growing economy. More money= more cash to spend on military and other social sectors. Less money, same spending on defense, means less for social welfare. It's pretty simple, not that hard to figure out. Except if you are an Indian.

Now tell me how many reserves Soviet Union had at their peak and how much China has?

Waiting for your answer.

 

[MilSpec]

Nope it is not. Neither is India or any other nation. But the point was, which you gladly hijacked and went about informing me about bubble canopy, that Russia spend all it's resources on Military and State security despite a struggling economy. It is not the same case in China, which has ample supply of cash and a fast growing economy. More money= more cash to spend on military and other social sectors. Less money, same spending on defense, means less for social welfare. It's pretty simple, not that hard to figure out. Except if you are an Indian.

Now tell me how many reserves Soviet Union had at their peak and how much China has?

Waiting for your answer.

Interesting query... Considering China being at its peak now, China's expenditure on military with it's enormous wealth for 2010-2014 was 2.1%, 2.0%, 2..0% and 2.1%....
That is indeed ideal and very commendable...

From your noble thought process
More money= more cash to spend on military and other social sectors. Less money, same spending on defense, means less for social welfare. It's pretty simple, not that hard to figure out.

you might want to communicate that to your leaders to as pakistan at it's probably worst ever performing economy spent from 2010-2014 - 3.4%, 3.3%, 3.4% and 3.4% of it's GDP, more than China, the one with all the wealth!

Military expenditure (% of GDP) | Data | Table

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

China is indeed a role model

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' - News - Books - The Independent

You know that was a famine right?

According to the UNICEF data, India has over 5 million people starving to death every year, even in the 2000's era. That's more than the rest of the world combined:

BBC NEWS | South Asia | 'Hunger critical' in South Asia

A Unicef report in May said the world was failing its children by not ensuring that they had enough to eat.

The report said India contributed to about 5.6 million child deaths per year, more than half the world's total.

Amartya Sen already calculated that India commits a "great leap forward" every decade or so.

Whereas we have not had that since the actual great leap forward in the 1960's.

 

[MilSpec]

You know that was a famine right?

According to the UNICEF data, India has over 5 million people starving to death every year, even in the 2000's era. That's more than the rest of the world combined:

BBC NEWS | South Asia | 'Hunger critical' in South Asia



Amartya Sen already calculated that India commits a "great leap forward" every decade or so.

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' - News - Books - The Independent

this paints a different story, please point me to some material to read if possible.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' - News - Books - The Independent

this paints a different story, please point me to some material to read if possible.

If you don't know the Great leap forward was a famine, then I really can't add much here.

That's just mainstream history.

 

[MilSpec]

If you don't know the Great leap forward was a famine, then I really can't add much here.

That's just mainstream history.

If you read the article, some of the events listed as contributors do go far beyond a natural famine, If you think that is incorrect, i was hoping for something that discredits the claims in Mr Dikötter book.