US & Pakistan Dispute and Tensions over Haqqani group

[President Camacho]

Hi,

I guess you missed it---intentionally or not---if the u s had troops on its side of the border from across waziristan----there would be no cross border crossings---with all the sophisticated equipment and all the technology at hand---if the u s is complanining about these issues then there is deception it its diction----. If the u s was really ineterested in stopping these incursions---they would be guarding the border 24/7----again I say----there is deception here---pakistan is being setup again---and pakistanis are at a loss to understand what is happening in the arena.

The pakistanbis believe that as long as they keep their heads in the sand---it is business as usual.

The missing part was intentional, because it requires a great deal of debate. There have always been news that whenever the US or ANA troops get near border, it results in their clashing with the PA. Rounds, and even rockets are fired, and retaliated. It may be very much possible that the troops have stayed far inside Afghanistan to avoid any sort of confrontations so as not to derail the mutual efforts.

But then there are some allegations (w.r.t. infiltration from Afghan side), and then there's some news (on clashes between American & Pak troops). None are ever carried in the same article, but appear to be very much related to each other. Somewhere I once read the Americans were strongly advised to stay west of the Kunar river (perhaps to keep them from any confrontations), but the same river does not make borders. And very often the insurgents are said to take refuge between the river and the actual border (which is in Kunar, of course).

So I think while the US can very much find the wanted men near the border, it has chosen not to, and rather ask the Pakistani forces to go after them in SW and adjoining areas. At this moment, the Americans appear more after the Pakistani Army, than after the Haqqanis or the Talibans.

 

[muse]

Either way, Pakistan army's choice, how it will live and how it will die - and that will be good for Pakistan and good for the army, it has been lost for a long long time, it will either find itself or become meaningless, again both outcomes are in Pakistan's favor - if the army fails in it's mission and a more pliable civilian government sits in islamabad, that's better than a free loader Army unwilling to do it's sworn duty. again a net gain for Pakistan

 

[President Camacho]

Yes, but the Army can still have its cake and eat it too, only if it so desires. A few of the likes of Brigadier Ali, which I am sure are in there at ranks and in numbers, need to be taken care of. Once the weeding is done, the Army will already have reincarnated and the civilian government will come out with some powers that it deserves. That will be the time when the nation will not appear divided and vulnerable to any threats, such as those looming over at this moment.

 

[muse]

Il Presidente:

Please review the link below - in particular I wanto bring your attention, besides the obvious, to the position expressed about Afghanistan and the position expressed (some would argue not expressed) with regard to the US accusations -not saying they are the last word on anything, just suggesting that we broaden our horizons - there is more to the world, than the one the US imagines it can conjure:

The Hindu : News / National : Manmohan to visit Iran

 

[President Camacho]

Il Presidente:

Please review the link below - in particular I wanto bring your attention, besides the obvious, to the position expressed about Afghanistan and the position expressed (some would argue not expressed) with regard to the US accusations -not saying they are the last word on anything, just suggesting that we broaden our horizons - there is more to the world, than the one the US imagines it can conjure:

The Hindu : News / National : Manmohan to visit Iran

Actually you are very right there, and perhaps the outcomes are bitter for the US since it has been treating the countries with the same color that it used to during the cold-war era.

One part I found a little strange there -

To a question on India’s reaction to General Mike Mullen’s comments that Haqqani network and Pakistan’s ISI were involved in the killing of former Afghan President Rabbani,

I never knew Haqqanis were accused of assassinating Rabbani. What are your insights on that?

 

[muse]

Actually you are very right there, and perhaps the outcomes are bitter for the US since it has been treating the countries with the same color that it used to during the cold-war era.

One part I found a little strange there -

I never knew Haqqanis were accused of assassinating Rabbani. What are your insights on that?

I would refer you to the following on this board:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/130891-afghans-strongly-against-pakistan-rabbani-funeral.html


Amb. Bhadrakumar has this to say:

PM Manmohan Singh’s statement spoke volumes. He refused to rush to judgment as to whose hand it is that is red with Rabbani’s blood. Let me quote his message to Karzai:

“It is with great shock and sadness that I have learnt of the tragic death of Professor Burhanuddin Rabbani. This is a senseless act of terrorism which the Government and people of India condemn. I fondly recall my two meetings with Professor Rabbani in Kabul in May 2011 and in New Delhi in July 2011 during which he had shared with me his vision of peace and reconciliation in Afghanistan. The best tribute the people of Afghanistan can pay to him is to carry on with the task that he had begun — securing a peaceful and safe future for the people of Afghanistan. Please accept my deepest condolences on the tragic loss. I wish to assure Your Excellency that India stands by you and the people of Afghanistan in this hour.”

Would the Indian premier be asking karzai to continue to talk to the talib or haqqani, that is the reconcilliation mission, isn't it, if the Indian Premier thought they done it??

The Ambassador adds

Maybe, PM will inquire from Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad when they meet in New York this week. Tehran is very well clued-in as to what is happening in the name of the war on terror in Afghanistan. Besides, Tehran was Rabbani’s very last port of call, from where he headed for Sharjah to spend a few days with his family members who live there.

That is, until he was asked to rush back to Kabul by an Afghan official who conveyed a message from the US and British embassies in Kabul that they had something of extreme importance to discuss with him urgently and he should get back. Which he, alas, did.

Is the Ambassador getting through to ya?

 

[President Camacho]

Yeah, thanks Muse, I am already on that thread...

And I did suspect the same the moment I read of the assassination. But it is all so unbelievable, and now the reports are making it all too confusing as well. But well, I have my own inkling on that.

 

[Roybot]

Sirajuddin Haqqani dares US to attack N Waziristan – The Express Tribune

ISLAMABAD: While the United States, ever more strident, is ratcheting up pressure on Pakistan to snap its “ties with the Haqqani network”, the group’s chief Sirajuddin Haqqani on Friday warned Washington against any military adventure in the North Waziristan tribal agency.

Speaking to Reuters by satellite phone from an undisclosed location, Sirajuddin said he’d look forward to a US ground attack in North Waziristan. “The United States will suffer more losses [in North Waziristan] than they did in Afghanistan,” he said.

 

[muse]

As if he is challenging them to destroy their own ten year effort - will they take the bait? Pick up that gauntllet?

 

[SQ8]

As if he is challenging them to destroy their own ten year effort - will they take the bait? Pick up that gauntllet?

Depends if that gauntlet involves boots on the ground.. or bombing the place back to the stone age(although its pretty close to the stone age already).

 

[TaimiKhan]

This is the key para:



since it is an admission of Pakistan's links with the Haqqani Network, and a pathetic attempt to justify them by saying other countries have them too.

Did he specify what kind of links ?? Links can be on any nature. NATO forces giving bribe to Taliban for not attacking them and killing them is also a kind a link. NGOs and other govt and non govt organizations giving protection money of US tax payers is also a kind of a link. They have links with the taliban for certain purposes.

Americans talk of negotiations with taliban, opening their political offices in arab countries, removing their leaders names from UN terror list, is all ok for you American guys, but when we Pakistanis do the same thing, it becomes pathetic.

May be you should as your American CIA chief & Mike Mullen first of what Kiyani is talking about, which countries he is talking about, what kind of relations/links he is talking about, after knowing full truth, it would be wise to comment, rather then towing the pathetic American line.

Height of hypocrisy.

 

[President Camacho]

@Taimi, If the links were not incriminating, or any different from the allegations put forward by Ad. Mullen, Gen. Kayani would've already called them false, because they would be so.

By not calling it a lie, Gen. Kayani is in fact accepting that the Pakistan Army does have the same links with the Haqqani Network that Panetta and Ad. Mullen are accusing it of.

 

[TaimiKhan]

@Taimi, If the links were not incriminating, or any different from the allegations put forward by Ad. Mullen, Gen. Kayani would've already called them false, because they would be so.

By not calling it a lie, Gen. Kayani is in fact accepting that the Pakistan Army does have the same links with the Haqqani Network that Panetta and Ad. Mullen are accusing it of.

I believe Kiyani statement did said that the Americans are throwing baseless accusations. Which does means he is calling their statements a lie with respect to having links to propagate terror in Afghanistan or killing American soldiers.

Kiyani may have said about having links but he did not said what kind of links and his denying of Adm Mullen and others statements means he is clarifying that the links are of not the nature as being accused by the Americans. His statement is very clear in that regard.

But then again, i ask you and other Americans, that is US is so much sure and has solid proof, what is holding them from showing that proof to the world and ask them to act against Pakistan ?? A few UN sanctioned strikes on Pakistan may show US resolve, as we are talking about killings of US soldiers in Afghanistan. Libyans bombed a place and few US army personnel got killed, in return Tripoli is bombed, same case with others, then why not show the evidence and do the same with Pakistan.

So far we have been hearing statements, and not a single piece of evidence from any American official. Show the evidence and then do whatever you want.

Till then, i would say its all BS and a blame game for some other purpose, as per past practices.

---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 PM ----------

@Taimi, If the links were not incriminating, or any different from the allegations put forward by Ad. Mullen, Gen. Kayani would've already called them false, because they would be so.

By not calling it a lie, Gen. Kayani is in fact accepting that the Pakistan Army does have the same links with the Haqqani Network that Panetta and Ad. Mullen are accusing it of.

I believe Kiyani statement did said that the Americans are throwing baseless accusations. Which does means he is calling their statements a lie with respect to having links to propagate terror in Afghanistan or killing American soldiers.

Kiyani may have said about having links but he did not said what kind of links and his denying of Adm Mullen and others statements means he is clarifying that the links are of not the nature as being accused by the Americans. His statement is very clear in that regard.

But then again, i ask you and other Americans, that is US is so much sure and has solid proof, what is holding them from showing that proof to the world and ask them to act against Pakistan ?? A few UN sanctioned strikes on Pakistan may show US resolve, as we are talking about killings of US soldiers in Afghanistan. Libyans bombed a place and few US army personnel got killed, in return Tripoli is bombed, same case with others, then why not show the evidence and do the same with Pakistan.

So far we have been hearing statements, and not a single piece of evidence from any American official. Show the evidence and then do whatever you want.

Till then, i would say its all BS and a blame game for some other purpose, as per past practices.

 

[SQ8]

Wasnt having the links supposed to be useful as a means to a peaceful solution??

 

[President Camacho]

Santro, it is all fine to have links and yes, the links do help a lot in peace process. The US too may have links with Taliban. The problem occurs when the group goes out and attacks others, as happened in Kabul.