US opposes Rafale deal ...

[Verve]

Not anyone but French claiming this ... watch! 9:40 onwards

 

[maverick1977]

Not anyone but French claiming this ... watch! 9:40 onwards

Interesting play…

 

[Ali_Baba]

Not anyone but French claiming this ... watch! 9:40 onwards

The problem is that most of Frances weapons systems are now outdated compared to what the USA & China now build and what the rest of the world is starting to build for themselves eg IFX/KFX/TFX and they will all to start to compete against France in military sales. France's usual technique of attempt to steal technology by getting into partnerships to only walk out after half way through when they have grabbed the technology to build their own platforms, no longer works as countries are wise to it now.

France lacks the resources itself to build the next generation of weapons, and its biggest problem is that it is as a country - incapable of building collaborative relationships to share project risk, technology and industrial capability. So they are royally stuffed as far as their defence industry goes and all of that is starting to reflect themselves in interviews like above.

They are upset about the Submarine deal because it undermines its industrial programme as far as keeping the Naval group relevant in the development of conventional submarines. The Naval group has the issue of now attempting to fund that programme is itself and that is problemmatic. They are trying to get EU to step up as a "military power" as a means to sustain its defence exports.

( p.s. Indonesia is better off buying F35s than Rafales if it looking to add to its IFX programme.. ), even with the prickly relationship betweent the 2 countries and previous history of sanctions.

 

[Foinikas]

The problem is that most of Frances weapons systems are outdated compared to what the USA builds and what the rest of the world is starting to build. France's usual technique of attempt to steal technology by getting into partnerships to only walk out after they have grabbed the technology to build their own platforms, no longer works as countries are wise to it now.

France lacks the resources itself to build the next generation of weapons, and its biggest problem is tht it is as a country - incapable of building collaborative relationships to share project risk, technology and industrial capability. So - they are royally stuffed as far as their defence industry goes and all of that is starting to reflect themselves in interviews like above.

( Indonesia is better off buying F35s than Rafales if it looking to add to its IFX programme.. ), even with the prickly relationship betweent the 2 countries and previous history of sanctions.

Are you gonna start saying that French systems are bad now? Is this where this is going? You may hate the French,but only a fool won't admit that they make quality stuff. They are not a power on the economic scale and size of USA or Russia,what they make is pretty darn good. Britain,France,Germany,Italy,look at it on this scope. These are comparable. USA and countries like Russia have immense resources,workforce and political power. For their share,the French,the Germans and Italians have been doing pretty darn well I'd say.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Are you gonna start saying that French systems are bad now? Is this where this is going? You may hate the French,but only a fool won't admit that they make quality stuff. They are not a power on the economic scale and size of USA or Russia,what they make is pretty darn good. Britain,France,Germany,Italy,look at it on this scope. These are comparable. USA and countries like Russia have immense resources,workforce and political power. For their share,the French,the Germans and Italians have been doing pretty darn well I'd say.

I dont understand how or why you derive i hate the French from the above statements - I think i have presented clear logical rationale for my point of view that France is heading into troubled waters as far as her military industry goes to "develop the next generation of weapon systems.

The existing platforms are built to a high standard but that is not where Frances problems are, they are in the next generation of systems and platforms.

France is at an inflection point - what they have done before and make now is "quality stuff" but can they position themselves to make the next batch of "quality stuff" ? Can they form the partnerships to achieve that ?

Will FCAS, which is the competitor to the Tempest programme fail due to Frances industrial strategy, and politics ? Time will tell.

France has a track record and you cannot white wash that away ..

 

[ENRL]

You cant be serious with this statement. In the first two paragraphs, replace France with China and it will make sense.

China is struggling to build an Aero engine to power their fighters for some time now. Making something look like the F22/F35 externally doesn’t make it perform like one. Why do you think China still purchases Western aircraft for even their domestic commercial sector? Their WS engine series is full of problems and they haven’t delivered performance. This is why they rely on Russian engines which aren’t anywhere as reliable as the NATO aircraft engines

Will China truly catch-up? Yes, possibly and maybe but that’s decades from now.

Stealing stealth technology? We know who stole data from the F35 programme. Hint: It wasn’t France

The problem is that most of Frances weapons systems are now outdated compared to what the USA & China now build and what the rest of the world is starting to build for themselves eg IFX/KFX/TFX and they will all to start to compete against France in military sales. France's usual technique of attempt to steal technology by getting into partnerships to only walk out after half way through when they have grabbed the technology to build their own platforms, no longer works as countries are wise to it now.

France lacks the resources itself to build the next generation of weapons, and its biggest problem is that it is as a country - incapable of building collaborative relationships to share project risk, technology and industrial capability. So they are royally stuffed as far as their defence industry goes and all of that is starting to reflect themselves in interviews like above.

They are upset about the Submarine deal because it undermines its industrial programme as far as keeping the Naval group relevant in the development of conventional submarines. The Naval group has the issue of now attempting to fund that programme is itself and that is problemmatic. They are trying to get EU to step up as a "military power" as a means to sustain its defence exports.

( p.s. Indonesia is better off buying F35s than Rafales if it looking to add to its IFX programme.. ), even with the prickly relationship betweent the 2 countries and previous history of sanctions.

 

[Microsoft]

Is France the India of Europe? Always complaining and think they deserve respect of everyone else for what?

 

[Indos]

The problem is that most of Frances weapons systems are now outdated compared to what the USA & China now build and what the rest of the world is starting to build for themselves eg IFX/KFX/TFX and they will all to start to compete against France in military sales

( p.s. Indonesia is better off buying F35s than Rafales if it looking to add to its IFX programme.. ), even with the prickly relationship betweent the 2 countries and previous history of sanctions.

It is unlikely we are buying Rafale by looking to the approved budget for MRCA program which is 1.1 billion USD until 2024. That is still in the form of approved foreign loan and MoD should find the loan. Not to mention this program should also compete other acquisition program as down payment for the loan and yearly payment to pay for loan is not enought for all approved acquisition plan.

The most logical way is to acquire 8- 12 F16 V as the pressing acquisition is to fill F5 squadron in Iswahyudi base where all of F5 fighters have been grounded and inactive.

Talking about F35, USA doesnt give us permission, and current development shows our MoD is very interested on F15 EX and has paid lobbyist to get US gov and congress approval.

The number of possible acquisition of F 15 EX will still need to fit with current approved foreign loan for MRCA program which is 1.1 billion USD