US objects to China-Pakistan nuclear deal

[desiman]

What does this have to do with 'denying the facts'? Are you contesting what I wrote and if so why? You can't just rant about 'denying the facts' when you yourself have not refuted a single line I wrote.

Who made it a crime? Even if Pakistan had supplied technology to NK (which it did not, AQ Khan allegedly did) it committed no crime since it is not a member of the NPT. You cannot make up your own facts and laws to vilify Pakistan just because you feel like it.

And why is that worse than the West supplying nuclear capabilities to Israel (that also has occupied and enslaved millions of Palestinians) as well as Pakistan? Why do those nations get to be on the NSG despite their own history of proliferation?

And why is supplying nuclear technology to a nation like India, that has occupied and subjugated millions of Kashmiris in violation of the UNSC resolutions and conditions of accession (plebiscite) not an even bigger 'crime against humanity'?

---------- Post added at 02:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------



A comment that addresses none of the points I raised - where exactly in this post of mine that you responded to did you see Pakistan mentioned?

i dont buy even one point you made, US's and NSG's concerns regarding Pakistan's nuclear program at legitimate whether you like it or not. It has nothing to to with India or Kashmir or any other useless rant that are being offered up as a defense here. There are enormous risk in giving Pakistan any sensitive tech and the NSG is well aware of that. The NSG will not approve Pakistan, simple as that, mark my words. Please dont come back to the same old Kashmir issue again and dilute the discussion , we have already discussed that many times. The international community does not buy that argument.

 

[IceCold]

i dont buy even one point you made, US's and NSG's concerns regarding Pakistan's nuclear program at legitimate whether you like it or not. It has nothing to to with India or Kashmir or any other useless rant that are being offered up as a defense here. There are enormous risk in giving Pakistan any sensitive tech and the NSG is well aware of that. The NSG will not approve Pakistan, simple as that, mark my words. Please dont come back to the same old Kashmir issue again and dilute the discussion , we have already discussed that many times. The international community does not buy that argument.

Dude seriously you are constantly ranting on every related nuclear thread with the same thing over and over again although being refuted many times over.
Now lets start is all over,
First Neither Pakistan nor China is seeking an NSG waiver why because we dont need one. The deal between the two counties is already within the frame work of an already made agreement between the two sides well before China became the part of the group.
second Pakistan is not a member of NPT so even if we take this thing at face value that it was Pakistan who proliferated nuclear tech and no just one single person(AQ Khan), we can do that because we are not bound by any legal accord. We can share our nuclear tech with anyone and everyone who requires our help.
I think i have made it simple enough for your mind to comprehend. And one more thing since you are marking your words, let me ask you to mark mine, this process of getting nuclear tech from China will continue even after the deal for additional two reactors have been done and sooner or latter NSG will accommodate Pakistan into its frame work just as its done with India why because they simply cannot afford to keep Pakistan out of the loop, so it will be in their best interest to bring Pakistan into the circle with monitoring process rather then to let it get deals out side the NPT with no restrictions or monitoring system.

 

[Ras]

This certainly should be a rule that is passed, given the West's desire to deny Iran enrichment technology. India is in a conflict zone, giving her additional capabilities to reprocess Plutonium (of which she reportedly has thousands of kilograms worth) would be foolhardy. It is in no way essential to the purpose of generating electricity, and reprocessing can occur outside of India in Russia or any other State if need be, or with current Indian technology.

It is not plutonium enrichment which India needs it is uranium-enrichment technology. India has all the technology she needs for weapon grade plutonium enrichment.

Even this is a minor irritant...all India wanted was a steady supply of uranium and she has managed to secure that.Technology was always second on the list.Without the Uranium supply India's whole nuclear power investment including the ambitious thorium based breeder program was completely doomed.

 

[Super Falcon]

no right have usa to to interfear

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

this is an indian conspiracy

 

[Super Falcon]

well indian always get on fire when they hear that pakistan buys something than indian says that pakistani get jelous when theu buy something but see the proof today india finalized the deal for new SU 3o no pakistan got on fire

 

[Hyde]

China firms join Pak nuclear push​

* China says both countries working in spirit of equality and mutual benefit

BEIJING: Chinese companies this month quietly signed a contract to cooperate in building two nuclear reactors at Pakistan’s Chashma atomic complex, advancing a controversial project that has worried the US and India.

The China Nuclear Industry Fifth Construction Company (CNIFCC) and the CNNC China Zhongyuan Engineering Corp, which specialises in foreign nuclear projects, agreed to work together on the third and fourth plants at the Chashma complex, according to a Chinese-language announcement on the website of the Construction Company cnfc.net.cn. The deal, signed in Shanghai on June 8, confirmed that the long-running plans about Chinese help in expanding Chashma are moving forward, despite misgivings in the region and beyond about security and proliferation risks in troubled Pakistan. A Pakistani government official said there was nothing new in the agreement and that it was part of an ongoing cooperation with China in the peaceful use of nuclear energy. Mounting signs that China will proceed with the reactor project in Punjab have stirred international misgivings, especially in neighbouring India and the US.

Separately, the spokesman of the Chinese foreign ministry again stressed that China and Pakistan were working in the spirit of equality and mutual benefit. “We have been cooperating in this spirit,” said Qin Gang, spokesperson of the Chinese Foreign Ministry while responding to a question on the provision of two civil nuclear energy reactors to Pakistan. agencies

 

[khanz]

deal is going through indians and americans can bark all they want but it's gonna happen they put extreme sanctions on us in the 90s but we still went nuclear lol couldn't stop us back then and they can't stop us now.

 

[karan.1970]

BBC News - Nuclear meeting ends amid divisions over Pakistan

A meeting of countries exporting civil nuclear technology has ended with uncertainty about Chinese plans to sell two nuclear reactors to Pakistan.

Such a deal would appear to be against the rules set by the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG).

But the group's annual meeting, held in New Zealand, has revealed divisions in the international response.

China also seems hesitant about spelling out its intentions.

What many NSG members wanted from the Chinese at the meeting in Christchurch was clarity.

Is Beijing really intending to sell two more nuclear reactors to Pakistan? And if so how will it go about it?

This is a highly-divisive issue since any such deal would appear to break the NSG's guidelines.

These rule out the export of civil nuclear technology to countries like Pakistan that have not signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and that are known to have developed nuclear weapons.

British misgivings

Several governments were highly sceptical about any further nuclear trading with Pakistan.

In Britain, diplomats accept that Pakistan's energy needs are "huge and increasing".


But the official view in London is that "the time is not yet right for a civil nuclear deal with Pakistan".

This was certainly the view of a number of other NSG members.

The United States too had raised concerns, not least given Pakistan's record as a proliferator of nuclear and missile technology.

In terms of the NSG guidelines, India was in a similar position to Pakistan.

But in 2008 the US pushed through an exemption at the Nuclear Suppliers Group enabling India to buy civil nuclear technology abroad.

And going into this meeting China's logic seemed to be that if the US could get a deal for its friend - India - then China should be able to do the same for its ally - Pakistan.

But in the event China had very little to say. The meeting ended without any clarification of China's intentions regarding Pakistan.

It simply said that any nuclear commerce with Pakistan would be in accordance with it's international obligations.

Nuclear experts believe that the outcome of the Christchurch meeting indicates that the Chinese have not yet decided how they want to play this.

Mark Hibbs of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace has this assessment of China's position: "China was asked by NSG members to spell out its intentions in this matter and it didn't do that.

"China may be feeling international pressure and will therefore carefully weigh the pluses and minuses of all its options before going ahead with this."

Selling more reactors to Pakistan while keeping within the NSG guidelines represents something of a diplomatic conundrum. Other countries will have to be persuaded to go along with the deal.

And it is going to require a lot more information and transparency on the part of the Chinese if Beijing is to have any chance of winning over the sceptics.

 

[Kinetic]

Nuclear deal with Pakistan is just a show off, I wanted to see how China make the deal go through in NSG and IAEA!!!! But the result clearly shows that they have to learn a lot from USA, UK, Russia etc how to play international strategic games.

NSG does not endorse China-Pak N-deal | Deccan Chronicle | 2010-06-27

"And going into this meeting China's logic seemed to be that if the US could get a deal for its friend - India - then China should be able to do the same for its ally - Pakistan."

"China may be feeling international pressure and will therefore carefully weigh the pluses and minuses of all its options before going ahead with this."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10418208.stm

 

[RollingStones]

Nuclear deal with Pakistan is just a show off, I wanted to see how China make the deal go through in NSG and IAEA!!!! But the result clearly shows that they have to learn a lot from USA, UK, Russia etc how to play international strategic games.

NSG does not endorse China-Pak N-deal | Deccan Chronicle | 2010-06-27

"And going into this meeting China's logic seemed to be that if the US could get a deal for its friend - India - then China should be able to do the same for its ally - Pakistan."

"China may be feeling international pressure and will therefore carefully weigh the pluses and minuses of all its options before going ahead with this."

BBC News - Nuclear meeting ends amid divisions over Pakistan

I am yet to see China push across one leadership initiative in the International community. We'll see what they do here. In WTO or NSG or IAEA or WIPO, it has been countries like India, Brazil and to some extent even Pakistan that have shown leadership. China has not taken any leadership positions on any global cause so far, that have far reaching implications to mankind. We'll have to see why China wants to do this deal with Pakistan? It is pretty clear that the deal size is a bit small that it is not about business for China. China is known for showing off and building gigantic stuff just to show that it has the capabilities and the resources. The former Soviet Union did that as well. Perhaps, it is a way of telling the Americans that they have arrived on the global political scene. We'll see what China wants to accomplish through this. One thing is for sure: they are not doing this to ease pakistan's energy pains, though that could be the end result.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Nuclear deal with Pakistan is just a show off, I wanted to see how China make the deal go through in NSG and IAEA!!!! But the result clearly shows that they have to learn a lot from USA, UK, Russia etc how to play international strategic games.

NSG does not endorse China-Pak N-deal | Deccan Chronicle | 2010-06-27

"And going into this meeting China's logic seemed to be that if the US could get a deal for its friend - India - then China should be able to do the same for its ally - Pakistan."

"China may be feeling international pressure and will therefore carefully weigh the pluses and minuses of all its options before going ahead with this."

BBC News - Nuclear meeting ends amid divisions over Pakistan

I am yet to see China push across one leadership initiative in the International community. We'll see what they do here. In WTO or NSG or IAEA or WIPO, it has been countries like India, Brazil and to some extent even Pakistan that have shown leadership. China has not taken any leadership positions on any global cause so far, that have far reaching implications to mankind. We'll have to see why China wants to do this deal with Pakistan? It is pretty clear that the deal size is a bit small that it is not about business for China. China is known for showing off and building gigantic stuff just to show that it has the capabilities and the resources. The former Soviet Union did that as well. Perhaps, it is a way of telling the Americans that they have arrived on the global political scene. We'll see what China wants to accomplish through this. One thing is for sure: they are not doing this to ease pakistan's energy pains, though that could be the end result.

China isn't looking to push this particular deal through the NSG, which is why their argument has pretty consistently been that the deal is 'grandfathered'. As such, there is nothing to get approval for. China's strategy, going into the NSG talks, was to float the deal during talks and see what sort of opposition it received - so far that opposition appears to have been 'lukewarm'.

The Deccan Herald headline is making something out of nothing - the NSG merely called for 'more transparency and consultancy' - there was, as pointed out by numerous other articles (even Indian ones) no consensus on how to approach the proposed Sino-Pak nuclear deal.

That lack of consensus and vague statement likely means nothing will be done by the NSG, against the deal, in the coming days, unless the US and//or NSG take a very unambiguous and strong stance against it.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

i dont buy even one point you made, US's and NSG's concerns regarding Pakistan's nuclear program at legitimate whether you like it or not. It has nothing to to with India or Kashmir or any other useless rant that are being offered up as a defense here. There are enormous risk in giving Pakistan any sensitive tech and the NSG is well aware of that. The NSG will not approve Pakistan, simple as that, mark my words. Please dont come back to the same old Kashmir issue again and dilute the discussion , we have already discussed that many times. The international community does not buy that argument.

Don't buy any point I made - but it is clear that you have no refutation to my points either, which means that they stand unchallenged. The complicity of the West, or institutions in the West, and China in the nuclear programs of Israel, Pakistan, South Africa, North Korea etc. is pretty clear, and the extent of 'proliferation' by these nations is far greater than anything AQ Khan accomplished (he sent dud designs to a nation that couldn't do anything with them - Libya - and sold outdated centrifuge designs to Iran). These Western nations and China however are responsible for the development of functioning nuclear weapons programs by multiple countries.

Why are these nations with worse records than Pakistan part of the NSG if 'the NSG and US have concerns about proliferation' as you indicate? You have offered no answer to that question, because to do so would require you to look beyond your biases and accept that Pakistan is neither the worst proliferator and the decision to keep it out of the NSG is nothing but hypocrist given the worse proliferation records of other proliferators.

China, as I pointed out earlier, is not looking for NSG approval in this current deal since it is arguing it is 'grandfathered', and deals like this are precisely what Pakistan needs to eventually get into the NSG since continued nuclear power development in Pakistan enhances Pakistan's technical expertise in the area and means that we can offer peripheral services, components and technology, if not entire NPP's, to other nations. And the NSG will want to regulate any such trade by Pakistan, to control what goes to whom, and the only way it can do that is if it accepts Pakistan into the NSG.

For example, Turkey is looking to expand its civilian nuclear program and wants enrichment technology, which the West is unlikely to provide it. Pakistan would have no compulsions to deny enrichment technology for 'peaceful purposes' under a commercial deal with IAEA safeguards. Perhaps too Saudi Arabia, especially with Iranian advances.

On Kashmir - don't make emotional and subjective comments about 'supplying NK is a crime against humanity' and I won't have to resort to making comments about India's 'crimes against humanity in Kashmir'.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

NEW DELHI: In the end, the Nuclear Suppliers Group steered clear of two difficult subjects: the China-Pakistan nuclear deal and the US's efforts to sew up an agreement restricting transfers of enrichment and reprocessing technology to non-NPT compliant countries.

In an official statement the 46-member group observed that participating countries "continued to consider implementation" of civil nuclear cooperation with India. "It noted actions taken to adhere to the NSG guidelines and the voluntary commitments made by India."

According to sources, the China-Pakistan deal came up for a lot of discussion but it didn't make it as an agenda item, especially after the numerous questions to China failed to elicit any clear replies from Beijing.

However, Chinese nuclear companies have already reportedly signed agreements to build two new reactors in Pakistan, well before the NSG meet. NSG confined itself to calling for consultation and transparency in dealings with non-NSG states, an oblique reference to the Pakistan deal.

NSG meet steers clear of China-Pakistan nuke deal - India - The Times of India

 

[RollingStones]

China isn't looking to push this particular deal through the NSG, which is why their argument has pretty consistently been that the deal is 'grandfathered'. As such, there is nothing to get approval for. China's strategy, going into the NSG talks, was to float the deal during talks and see what sort of opposition it received - so far that opposition appears to have been 'lukewarm'.

The Deccan Herald headline is making something out of nothing - the NSG merely called for 'more transparency and consultancy' - there was, as pointed out by numerous other articles (even Indian ones) no consensus on how to approach the proposed Sino-Pak nuclear deal.

That lack of consensus and vague statement likely means nothing will be done by the NSG, against the deal, in the coming days, unless the US and//or NSG take a very unambiguous and strong stance against it.

I'd be interested in seeing the US' response. It has two strikes against it: Pakistan's gas deal with Iran and china's nuclear transfer to Pakistan. If the US becomes uninterested in these areas, it'd show that US' foreign policy is weakening. The US' foreign policy considerably took a back seat when Obama appointed Hillary Clinton as the Secretary of State. And then, when he fired the aggressive commander of Afghanistan for a guy who'd tow the administration line more, it is becoming clear that this administrations wants to focus more on domestic issues and let the world tackle its issues. The US is focused on international trade and is pressurizing China to appreciate the Yuan. If China does not do that, then the game would be quite clear that China has gotten into a position where it can economically take on the US and that'd be quite interesting to see.