US not coming to PH aid vs China

[Martian2]

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/14118/us-not-...ph-aid-vs-china

"US not coming to PH aid vs China
By Julie M. Aurelio, Norman Bordadora
Philippine Daily Inquirer
1:29 am | Sunday, June 12th, 2011

The United States yesterday said it will not side with any party in the Spratlys conflict, which is to say that the Philippines’ most powerful ally will not be coming to its aid should its spat with China escalate into a shooting war.

The US Embassy made this clear yesterday in reaction to a Malacañang statement earlier yesterday expressing confidence that Washington would honor its commitment under the two countries’ Mutual Defense Treaty to come to the aid of a beleaguered ally.

“The US does not take sides in regional territorial disputes,” the US press attaché Rebecca Thompson said in an e-mailed statement when contacted for comment to deputy presidential spokesperson Abigail Valte’s invoking of the 60-year-old MDT."

 

[Martian2]

Dummies’ guide to South China Sea sovereignty:

Who discovered Spratly and Paracel Islands a thousand years ago? China

The human remains of which country are found on South China Sea islands? China

The artifacts of which country are found on South China Sea islands? China

Which country has claimed South China Sea islands throughout dynasties? China

Vietnam Premier Pham Van Dong admitted which country owns South China Sea? China

This issue is crystal clear. China has sovereignty over South China Sea for a thousand years.

 

[Aramsogo]

The US can't afford a fourth war. It's as simple as that.

 

[Kaniska]

Dummies’ guide to South China Sea sovereignty:

Who discovered Spratly and Paracel Islands a thousand years ago? China

The human remains of which country are found on South China Sea islands? China

The artifacts of which country are found on South China Sea islands? China

Which country has claimed South China Sea islands throughout dynasties? China

Vietnam Premier Pham Van Dong admitted which country owns South China Sea? China

This issue is crystal clear. China has sovereignty over South China Sea for a thousand years.

I dont know but do we have any participant from Philipines to have a meaningful discussion about this topic? Otherwise this topic will be an unnecessary troll...

 

[Martian2]

I dont know but do we have any participant from Philipines to have a meaningful discussion about this topic? Otherwise this topic will be an unnecessary troll...

South China Sea belongs to China because they discovered and claimed it

Vietnamese and Filipinos should stop encroaching on thousand-year-old Chinese territory.

Source: Paracel Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The coast belonged to the Kingdom of Cauchi China. Map of Europe, Africa and ... There are some Chinese cultural relics in the Paracel islands dating from ..."

"China
618~1279

* There are some Chinese cultural relics in the Paracel islands dating from the Tang and Song dynasty eras[12][note 1], and there is some evidence of Chinese habitation on the islands in these periods.[13]."

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Vietnam Premier Pham Van Dong admits China owns South China Sea

The ownership of the Spratly Islands and Paracel Islands is a settled issue. Vietnam’s Premier Pham Van Dong had agreed in a diplomatic note on September 14, 1958 that China owns the South China Sea.

http://paracelspratlyislands.blogspot.com/...te-between.html

"Truong Nhan Tuan: Yes. The famous one is the diplomatic note of Pham Van Dong, written on 14/9/1958 which admits the territorial waters declared by China a few days before. The Chinese declaration was that the archipelagos of Hoang Sa, Nam Sa, and Truong Sa belonged to China."

Pham Van Dong Biography

"Born March 1, 1906
Quang Ngai province, Vietnam

Premier of North Vietnam, 1955–75, and of the reunited Socialist Republic of Vietnam, 1975–86

Pham Van Dong served as the premier of North Vietnam both before and during the Vietnam War. He was recognized as one of three most powerful leaders of North Vietnam during these years, along with Ho Chi Minh (see entry) and General Vo Nguyen Giap (see entry). In fact, these three men were sometimes referred to as the "iron triangle."

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Vietnamese government admits China owns South China Sea

In their civil war, North Vietnam (i.e. Democratic Republic of Vietnam or DRV) conquered South Vietnam and became the government of an unified Vietnam. Let's hear it directly from the DRV's mouth with regards to Chinese sovereignty over the Paracel Islands.

Please ignore the revisionist excuses and convoluted re-interpretations offered by a mere Vietnamese researcher, Mr. Truong Nhan Tuan, to personally invalidate the statements and actions of the government of the DRV. Focus on the facts and the DRV statements.

The important point is that it is ridiculous for the Vietnamese government to pretend that its former admissions and acknowledgments of Chinese sovereignty over the Paracel Islands didn't happen because it is inconvenient for the current Vietnamese plan of grabbing territory from China. Out of their own mouths, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam agreed that the Paracel Islands belong to China. Here are the most important excerpts.

"Truong Nhan Tuan: Based on a number of documents from Peking, on 15/6/1956 the Vice Foreign Minister of the DRV Ung Van Khiem, at the time of hosting a visit from the Chinese temporary ambassador in Vietnam, spoke the following: “According to documents that Vietnam has presently, historically speaking, Tay Sa and Nam Sa islands belong to China.”

Nguyen An: Tay Sa and Nam Sa means the Paracel and Spratly islands?

Truong Nhan Tuan: Yes, the Paracel and Spratly islands....China also presents other evidence, such as the incident of Le Loc (Temporary Head of the Asian Mission) also present at that time adding that: “From a historical perspective, the archipelagos of Xi Sa and Nan Sa (Tay Sa and Nam Sa) belonged to China since the T’ang dynasty.

Nguyen An: Le Loc is a person of China or of the DRV?

Truong Nhan Tuan: An official of the DRV."
...
"Nguyen An: Are there other evidence from the DRV presented by China regarding sovereignty?

Truong Nhan Tuan: Yes. The famous one is the diplomatic note of Pham Van Dong, written on 14/9/1958 which admits the territorial waters declared by China a few days before. The Chinese declaration was that the archipelagos of Hoang Sa, Nam Sa, and Truong Sa belonged to China.

Nguyen An: So it was an admittance of Chinese sovereignty over these islands?

Truong Nhan Tuan: In reality, there is nothing in the content of the letter that explicitly states admittance of Chinese sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly islands becaue the letter only states that Vietnam “make notes and admits the declaration of China regarding territorial waters of China” but does not mention about sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly archipelagos.

What makes the justification somewhat weak is because during the war, when the Chinese navy invaded the Paracel islands in 1974, there was no objection from the DRV. This silence becomes a weighty piece of evidence for China to claim that Vietnam had admmitted Chinese sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly archipelagos already.

Nguyen An: Based on what you just presented, is this the reason why Qin Gang (Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokesperson) commented that Vietnam’s position regarding sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly archipelagos changed over different periods of time?

Truong Nhan Tuan: This is correct. But the legal significance is not simple. Declarations made by officials in North Vietnam at that time may be a reality. The fact that Peking presents them without protestations or justifications from Hanoi tells us that it is probably true."

Reference: http://paracelspratlyislands.blogspot.com/...te-between.html

 

[hoangsa]

Dummies’ guide to South China Sea sovereignty:

Who discovered Spratly and Paracel Islands a thousand years ago? China.....China has no evidence. Vietnam has more evidence

The human remains of which country are found on South China Sea islands? China...China has no evidence. Vietnam has more human remains, even architectural remain

The artifacts of which country are found on South China Sea islands? China
Vietnam has too and more than China's one
Which country has claimed South China Sea islands throughout dynasties? China Vietnam has a lot of demand papers from Viet Kings to Viet soldier

Vietnam Premier Pham Van Dong admitted which country owns South China Sea? China This one illegal. There are many documents to prove this already

This issue is crystal clear. China has sovereignty over South China Sea for a thousand years.

Bullsh..t. NO ! Southeast sea not belong to ARROGANT CHINA. It belongs to Southeast countries. China go away

 

[Martian2]

The simple truth is that Russia and China are thermonuclear powers with the ability to destroy the United States in a mutually-assured-destruction scenario of brinkmanship. The United States will not risk its existence in arguing with Russia over bits of Georgian territory or thousand-year-old Chinese islands in the South China Sea.

 

[wmdisinfo]

Bullsh..t. NO ! Southeast sea not belong to ARROGANT CHINA. It belongs to Southeast countries. China go away

hmmmm lol what a joke

 

[SXNJ]

Well , now only Vietnam want to challenge China on the sea

 

[duytim]

why u have new thread to discuss beetwen VN-China ?

Vietnam want China comply with the international law. That's it.

US urges peaceful end to South China Sea tensions
WASHINGTON (AFP) – The United States is "troubled" by tensions triggered by a maritime border dispute in the South China Sea, US officials said Friday, calling for a "peaceful" resolution to the crisis.

"We've been troubled by some of these reports about the South China Sea and believe they only serve to raise tensions and don't help with the peace and security of the region," said State Department spokesman Mark Toner.

"We support a collaborative diplomatic process... and call on all claimants to conform all of their claims, both land and maritime, to international law."

He said the United States and the international community at large share an interest in maintaining maritime security in the region, citing freedom of navigation, economic development and respect for international law.

Beijing says it is committed to peace in the South China Sea, but its more assertive maritime posture has caused concern among regional nations.


Tensions between China and Vietnam are at their highest level in years after Hanoi accused Chinese marine surveillance vessels of cutting the exploration cables of an oil survey ship in May inside its exclusive economic zone in the maritime waters.

On Thursday, Vietnam alleged a similar incident in the zone, saying a Chinese fishing boat rammed the cables of another oil survey ship in its waters.

Beijing countered by warning Vietnam to halt all activities that it says violate its sovereignty in disputed South China Sea waters.

The two countries have long-standing disputes over the potentially oil-rich Paracel and Spratly archipelagos and surrounding sea.

Tensions have also risen this year between China and the Philippines, another claimant to the Spratly islands, where Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also say they have a stake.

Vietnam's navy on Friday announced it will hold a live-fire drill in the South China Sea next week.

"We don't support anything that adds to raising the current level of tension; we don't think it's helpful," Toner said.

"What there needs to be is a collaborative diplomatic process, a peaceful process, to resolve various territorial disputes and otherwise," he added. "Shows of force, other gestures like that, just I think raise tensions."

US Defense Secretary Robert Gates warned last weekend that clashes may erupt in the South China Sea unless nations with conflicting territorial claims adopt a mechanism to settle disputes peacefully.
US urges peaceful end to South China Sea tensions - Yahoo! News

We had the protests by diplomats, Shangri-La Dialogue in 2011, China said it would keep the peace but the forcing action then we must have self-defense actions.

If your country has been repeatedly harassed, but the diplomatic action to bring up the forums, international organizations, has almost no effect, the enemy continues to harass action then deny it and say untrue. How do you do?

 

[Martian2]

why u have new thread to discuss beetwen VN-China ?

Vietnam want China comply with the international law. That's it.


We had the protests by diplomats, Shangri-La Dialogue in 2011, China said it would keep the peace but the forcing action then we must have self-defense actions.

If your country has been repeatedly harassed, but the diplomatic action to bring up the forums, international organizations, has almost no effect, the enemy continues to harass action then deny it and say untrue. How do you do?

The new thread is warranted because the Filipinos were counting on the Americans to fight as mercenaries on their behalf. Now that the Filipinos and the Vietnamese know that the U.S. won't lift a finger to help them, watch the little barking dogs slink away with their tails between their legs.

I have been here for almost two years and I have made 1,396 posts with 1,863 "thanks" from other members. You have been here for a few days and only made 21 posts. Are you claiming that you know forum rules and policy better than I do?

Compared to you, I have been on this forum forever. I made a YouTube video on the J-20 that has been watched by over 71,000 viewers. At the end of my J-20 video, I thanked all of my friends on this forum and listed the address for Pakistan Defence to promote it and recruit new members. What have you done for Pakistan Defence?

Also, whenever I participate in a debate on this forum or on other forums regarding Pakistan, I am always in Pakistan's corner. China and Pakistan are "all-weather friends." Our destinies are interlinked.

 

[duytim]

The new thread is warranted because the Filipinos were counting on the Americans to fight as mercenaries on their behalf. Now that the Filipinos and the Vietnamese know that the U.S. won't lift a finger to help them, watch the little barking dogs run away with their tails between their legs.

I think Philippines want American go to protect theme, as allies, not fire, simply limiting the power of China or other country.
Vietnam do not use one countries against other countries. So, they dont want USA go to the East Sea with Army.
If that country come here to cooperate we always welcome.
Vietnam don't wanna war occur, so Vietnam just want we can dialogue and understand each other, under the view of international friends.

 

[no_name]

We can look at the south china sea issue this way:

An ASEAN alliance against china is very unlikely, because this is not about the ASEAN countries as a whole against chinese claims. The ASEAN nations are also competing against themselves for these islands and the surrounding seas.

There is a reason why china is willing to share resources on these islands, as long as it can maintain claim of sovereignty over them.

Proportionally, the oil and gas on these islands are probably more important to the ASEAN nations than to China. If the ASEAN nations agree to co-develop these resources with china, they are allowed unhassled share to them. More over, if there is a dispute between members of the ASEAN, china can even act as mediators to resolve the issue. If the ASEAN nations don't want to cooperate, china too has the potential to make peaceful extraction of these resources impossible. Big deal, they'll just wait 20 more years until their navy grows larger before comming back. These islands are not gonna go away.

If any one of the ASEAN nations wants to make a show of force, they better look out for the other members. In a fight between two tigers, one being the smaller, it is often not the bigger tiger that lands the killing blow, but the pack of wolves watching the fight. Why not? One less opponent to share resources with sounds like a good deal.

The bottom line for the CCP seems to be that they place more importance on the territorial claims than the natural resources. But they are wise enough to know that other countries are not about play nice without carrot along with stick. So I guess it's either why not just put aside the territorial differences and share the resources, or risk getting more lose than honey?

When the oil and gas runs out in decades time? Then the territory dispute will flare again. But this time the ASEANS are going to play games with a different PLAN altogether. Economic integration may even prevent that step from having to become reality altogether. High speed rail? connect to the grid or not? Your choice, your loss.

But act cute now, and you can still have your fingers in the pie while it's still there.

 

[Ryan]

I think Philippines want American go to protect theme, as allies, not fire, simply limiting the power of China or other country.
Vietnam do not use one countries against other countries. So, they dont want USA go to the East Sea with Army.
If that country come here to cooperate we always welcome.
Vietnam don't wanna war occur, so Vietnam just want we can dialogue and understand each other, under the view of international friends.

Vietnam has tried all possible venues to gather its ally, but failed miserably. Why? Vietnam is a pariah in ASEAN community. Let's face the truth, no one in ASEAN likes Vietnam. Vietnam is not worthwhile for USA to fight for it. The live-fire drill only makes everyone else to affirm that Vietnam is belligerent and provocative. Learning from how Vietnam treated China when China had offered enormous aid, everyone knows Vietnam is ingratituous and bites the hands feeding it.

 

[duytim]

Vietnam has tried all possible venues to gather its ally, but failed miserably. Why? Vietnam is a pariah in ASEAN community. Let's face the truth, no one in ASEAN likes Vietnam. Vietnam is not worthwhile for USA to fight for it. The live-fire drill only makes everyone else to affirm that Vietnam is belligerent and provocative. Learning from how Vietnam treated China when China had offered enormous aid, everyone knows Vietnam is ingratituous and bites the hands feeding it.

Vietnam welcomes international help as sea dispute escalates | Reuters
do you know internationalise?
Why China scared internationalization with the participation of many countries?

Because it hasn't the right.

Last year, as chair of the Association of South East Asian Nations, Vietnam actively sought to internationalise the issue and succeeded in putting it on the agenda at a regional security forum, much to China's displeasure.