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US may use 'military means' to defend Afghanistan until 2024

i wont be surprised if karzai dies ''tragically'' in a car accident or in a ''friendly fire''

behind closed doors @ Langley and Pentagon, the khakis are cursing karzai. Regular Nato troops are always furious by his statements about US military withdrawal pre-2014.


what confuses me is that there is total confusion on this issue because different ministries are giving different stories.....karzai is in a crappy place because he knows most of his countrymen want the NATO forces out; but at the same time, NATO is the one protecting karzai and covering his azz. Karzai is terrified of his own security forces - given that taleban have infiltrated them time to time.

diplomatic tug of war and public posturing vs. private aspirations

Big blow to Pakistan...They thought once US leave the Afghan...India will be weak in Afghanistan....Great move USA...love USA

it's you insecure bhartis who are obcessing over this perception


''big blow to Pakistan'' :laugh:


whatever floats your boat and helps you catch a few hours of sleep at night!
 
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Its not a big blow to Pakistan.

After the Soviets left, Afghanistan evolved into a Civil War which caused havoc on Pakistan's western borders. With refugees and drugs streaming in.

Pakistan used the Taliban to bring order to Afghanistan. Pakistan's mistake was believing that it could control the Taliban but they started sheltering foreign terrorists like Al Qaeda which led to 9/11.

So if USA pulls out most of its forces but keeps Special Forces and Trainers, then that is not a bad thing for Pakistan.

It ensures that Afghanistan won't be torn apart by civil war, De-stabilizing Pakistan's western border and also makes the Taliban think that there won't be any victory after 2014. Which will cause them to negotiate.
 
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i wont be surprised if karzai dies ''tragically'' in a car accident or in a ''friendly fire''

behind closed doors @ Langley and Pentagon, the khakis are cursing karzai. Regular Nato troops are always furious by his statements about US military withdrawal pre-2014.


what confuses me is that there is total confusion on this issue because different ministries are giving different stories.....karzai is in a crappy place because he knows most of his countrymen want the NATO forces out; but at the same time, NATO is the one protecting karzai and covering his azz. Karzai is terrified of his own security forces - given that taleban have infiltrated them time to time.

diplomatic tug of war and public posturing vs. private aspirations



it's you insecure bhartis who are obcessing over this perception


''big blow to Pakistan'' :laugh:


whatever floats your boat and helps you catch a few hours of sleep at night!

I can see..how frustrated you are and dreaming about Karzai's death....and abusing him.......I know you will not get sleep tonight :rofl:
 
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it was a speculation that was purely hypothetical, in nature........learn to read the post properly instead of claiming i'm ''dreaming'' about anything

when it comes to dreaming and wild imaginations, your people are #1 expert at it
 
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This is certainly not against Pakistan but against Taliban and their supporters!! Taliban can't hold for another 10 years or more, our relations with Pakistan civilian gov today is better than a lot of times throughout Pakistan's 65 years history; the numbers will be quiet few that would be easily supplied through air so no tension of torching of trucks and destruction of roads and infrastructure inside Pakistan. Surely USA's goals are not accomplished in Afghanistan yet and they will never lose such a strategical important land after spending billions.

PS: Those who also worry about post-2014 Afghan presidency should be assured that Ali Ahmad Jalali has just announced his participation for the up coming election; he has big support all over Afghanistan.
 
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If Afghan does not harbor anti-Pakistani policies, we will never interfere in the quagmire of their politics.
 
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This is certainly not against Pakistan but against Taliban and their supporters!! Taliban can't hold for another 10 years or more, our relations with Pakistan civilian gov today is better than a lot of times throughout Pakistan's 65 years history; the numbers will be quiet few that would be easily supplied through air so no tension of torching of trucks and destruction of roads and infrastructure inside Pakistan. Surely USA's goals are not accomplished in Afghanistan yet and they will never lose such a strategical important land after spending billions.

PS: Those who also worry about post-2014 Afghan presidency should be assured that Ali Ahmad Jalali has just announced his participation for the up coming election; he has big support all over Afghanistan.

is he a dual national? According to the link, he's a citizen of US
 
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is he a dual national? According to the link, he's a citizen of US

Yeah he is, the constitution doesn't allow any one with dual nationality for presidency they have to terminate one.

Currently 60% of gov officials are dual nationals either open or secret.

Some Good News from Afghanistan

karzaiobama.jpg


The past month's negative developments in Afghanistan -- Quran burnings, misconduct by U.S. soldiers, sophisticated insurgent attacks, and stagnant talks with the Taliban - have overshadowed a recent notable positive development in U.S.-Afghan relations: The imminent conclusion of the strategic partnership agreement that pledges U.S. support for 10 years after the withdrawal of most of its troops and establish ground rules for the future of security cooperation between the two countries.

The two principal sticking points -- night raids and U.S.-run prisons -- have now been resolved. U.S. President Barack Obama's administration will soon brief Congress on the agreement and Afghan President Hamid Karzai will seek the approval of his Parliament. Barring a last-minute glitch, the agreement will be signed before or during the NATO summit in Chicago next month.

The agreement designates Afghanistan as a "major non-NATO ally," making the country eligible for a variety of defense-related benefits vis-à-vis the US. The US will guarantee financial support for sustaining Afghan security forces while guaranteeing Afghanistan's security indefinitely. In exchange, Afghanistan will permit a U.S. military presence to remain in the country after 2014.

What that post-2014 presence will look like remains unclear. Most likely, the follow-on force will be comprised largely of Special Forces conducting counterterrorism operations. In the 12-month period following the signing of the agreement, U.S. and Afghan negotiators will try to address questions regarding the number of troops that will be allowed to stay, the type of missions they will pursue, and the legal immunity they will enjoy.

These negotiations could prove difficult. It was the issue of legal immunity for U.S. forces that ultimately derailed an agreement on keeping an American military presence in Iraq. Hostile Afghans and outside powers will try to use the negotiations to scuttle a long-term U.S. presence in Afghanistan as well.

Luckily, the political circumstances in Afghanistan are more favorable. Unlike Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and his top officials, Karzai and most other Afghan leaders understand that the Afghan government will need to depend on U.S. military assistance for at least another decade. Notwithstanding his election-year rhetoric, Obama appears more interested in retaining a significant force in Afghanistan than he was in Iraq. Bases in Afghanistan are critical to targeting the al Qaeda leadership, which, while weakened, still operates from sanctuaries close to Afghan territory in Pakistan.

Besides laying the groundwork for a long-term U.S. military presence in Afghanistan, the agreement is potentially important for three reasons:

First, by resolving some of the most contentious issues in the U.S.-Afghan relationship, the agreement provides an opportunity for Obama and Karzai to reset relations and focus on building an enduring partnership between their countries. Relations between the two administrations have been in a state of crisis for the past three years. In recent weeks, the political distrust has seeped to the military-military level, culminating in the killing of several U.S. officers and soldiers at the hands of their Afghan colleagues. Popular support in the U.S. for the mission in Afghanistan has fallen to the lowest levels since 2001.

While several weeks of bad news was bound to decrease public support, Obama has exacerbated the problem. It has been more than a year since the president addressed the American people on the topic of Afghanistan -- a missed opportunity to explain the importance of the mission and highlight the very real progress that the coalition is making. Although the United States has more than 90,000 troops in Afghanistan, Obama has not visited Kabul for some 18 months. The strategic partnership agreement is a significant achievement that the president should trumpet, ideally with a trip to the country.

In Afghanistan, the agreement is likely to bolster confidence in the country's future, potentially curtailing the corruption that U.S.-Afghan tensions have fueled in recent months. Billions of dollars have left the country as government officials began to take precautions against the possibility of a cutoff in American support. Many Afghans also hedged their bets by reaching out to the Taliban and their outside supporters. The agreement, however, is only likely to produce lasting gains if the Karzai government and the U.S. team break the cycle of mutual recrimination and prioritize cooperation in tackling corruption. A cancer on the Afghan body politic, corruption perhaps more than any other problem, is hindering progress in promoting the rule of law.

The agreement could also encourage the Taliban to negotiate a settlement. Reports from Afghans who follow developments inside the Taliban suggest that Taliban leaders are divided on whether or not to pursue a peace deal with the Afghan government. Coalition military successes and tensions in the Taliban's relationship with Pakistan have encouraged some factions to seek a settlement. Other top Taliban leaders oppose negotiations, calculating that the impending U.S. withdrawal will shift the balance of power to their advantage, creating an opening for the movement to dominate Afghanistan again.

Negotiating a political settlement that is agreeable to the Taliban and Afghan government but also addresses core U.S. interests will not be easy. Divisions in Afghan society across ideological, ethnic, and sectarian lines have proven intractable in many ways. Regional players with influence among Afghan factions -- China, India, Iran, and Russia, for example -- are not on the same page. But the U.S.-Afghan agreement raises the cost for the Taliban of trying to wait out the clock, potentially presenting Washington and Kabul with an opportunity to secure greater Taliban buy-in for a negotiated settlement. To capitalize on the agreement, the United States will have to increase unilateral steps to restrain those who benefit from the status quo and are resisting a settlement.

Finally, the agreement could alter Islamabad's attitude. Pakistan has not moved against insurgent sanctuaries on its territory, assuming that a U.S. withdrawal is imminent. In the event of renewed civil war in Afghanistan, Pakistan would have to rely on proxies such as the Taliban and the Haqqani network to counter forces backed by India and Russia. A strategy of supporting insurgents could begin to backfire for Pakistan if the American presence succeeds in hardening Afghan forces. -- (no offense but this part is for many members here)

The strategic partnership agreement comes at a time when Pakistan may be reconsidering its Afghanistan strategy. In talks with U.S. and Afghan counterparts, Pakistani officials not only have been more candid about Islamabad's links to the insurgency, I am told that in discussions with Americans and Afghans, they are emphasizing four points:

First, a Taliban victory in Afghan would not serve Pakistani interests, as it would create a possible sanctuary for the Pakistani Taliban. Second, Pakistani policy has produced resentment from both Afghans and insurgent proxies alike. Third, Pakistan is now willing to accommodate a longer-term U.S. presence in Afghanistan. And finally, the best outcome for Pakistan would be an inclusive Afghan government that does not pose a threat to Pakistan but can facilitate economic and regional cooperation.

Islamabad's recent change in tone is worth testing, particularly in light of Pakistan's severe financial problems. The country's low reserves to cover imports, for example, provide the international community with significant leverage.

Washington should pursue talks on two tracks. The United States should negotiate directly with Pakistan on an Afghan settlement. At the same time, efforts to pursue dialogue with the Taliban should continue in coordination with Afghan leaders. The dialogue could expand to include Pakistan, provided that both Pakistani civilian and military leaders are willing to play a cooperative role. The Obama administration has largely embraced this option.

Washington also needs make a concerted, multilateral effort to incentivize cooperation from Pakistan. While recognizing that its policies jeopardize the flow of U.S. economic and military assistance it has received since 9/11, Islamabad believes that it has other options -- China, Saudi Arabia, and perhaps even Russia.

Washington should accelerate bilateral talks with regional powers that share its interest in precluding civil war, eliminating al Qaeda and other terrorist sanctuaries, and enabling a stable drawdown of international forces. The United States should seek an understanding with these states on the basic contours of an Afghan peace settlement and steps needed to move forward. Assuming a basic confluence of interest, the Obama administration should push to establish a multilateral forum on AfPak issues that could include India, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, key European states, and Japan.

U.S. leverage in Afghanistan is likely to decline in the coming years -- a reality that makes it critical for the US to take advantage of the strategic partnership agreement. The key challenge in the next year is working with the Afghan government on tackling corruption, integrating the Taliban, and reaching an understanding with Pakistan. After a decade-long military campaign, prudent diplomacy could allow the United States to wind down the mission with its core interests secured.

Source: Some Good News from Afghanistan- By Zalmay Khalilzad | Foreign Policy
 
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sounds like some of our dear leaders :laugh:

on a broader and more general level, I'm confident that all Pakistanis are keen to see Afghanistan prosper and for their to be security and basic services offered to the people so that they can live in peace and dignity. Afghans must set aside their rivalries and political dividedness for the sake of their country and for the sake of peace

i personally dont believe NATO holds the key to peace and security in Afghanistan....their presence is de-stabilizing and is used as justification for radical elements to take up arms......Afghanistan peace will require Afghan solution, we will be here to help whenever help is requested.

Washington should pursue talks on two tracks. The United States should negotiate directly with Pakistan on an Afghan settlement. At the same time, efforts to pursue dialogue with the Taliban should continue in coordination with Afghan leaders. The dialogue could expand to include Pakistan, provided that both Pakistani civilian and military leaders are willing to play a cooperative role. The Obama administration has largely embraced this option.

i take strong exception to Mr. Khalilzad's wording here.....

Pakistan has been itching for peace and stability in Afghanistan and went through lengths it saw as fit to see to it that there is peace as well as no anti-Pakistan elements gaining strength in Afghanistan. Was it not our right?

the real question is - do all the stakeholders see eachother eye-to-eye on HOW to bring about and implement peace?? clearly we arent......and that is already well-established that we have differences over how to bring about peace in the war-torn country. Ultimately it will require an indigenous, home-made solution in Afghanistan. Proper leaders, not war-lords and drug kings - should be running and administering a country.
 
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sounds like some of our dear leaders :laugh:

on a broader and more general level, I'm confident that all Pakistanis are keen to see Afghanistan prosper and for their to be security and basic services offered to the people so that they can live in peace and dignity. Afghans must set aside their rivalries and political dividedness for the sake of their country and for the sake of peace

i personally dont believe NATO holds the key to peace and security in Afghanistan....their presence is de-stabilizing and is used as justification for radical elements to take up arms......Afghanistan peace will require Afghan solution, we will be here to help whenever help is requested.

Yes buddy, good understanding between two country is must; at many times I have defended Pakistan and Pakistan is a role model to many Islamic countries apart from terrorism Pakistan has a lot of remarkable achievements which make her a pride of Muslim nations :)
 
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well - it was Mr. Armitage that made the whole ''take you back to stone age'' threat but it is zardari and the current lot in the political establishment of Pakistan that ARE taking Pakistan to stone ages.....

whatever pride we had is being eroded; but it's not the end of the world. We also need to mature and be able to vote in the capable people to lead us forward during difficult and pressing times.


Pakistan and Afghanistan will be shining in winning colours when the people are united and when there is effective (honest) leadership and an end to the biggest evil --the root of all evils - in the world (corruption)
 
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i take strong exception to Mr. Khalilzad's wording here.....

Pakistan has been itching for peace and stability in Afghanistan and went through lengths it saw as fit to see to it that there is peace as well as no anti-Pakistan elements gaining strength in Afghanistan. Was it not our right?

the real question is - do all the stakeholders see eachother eye-to-eye on HOW to bring about and implement peace?? clearly we arent......and that is already well-established that we have differences over how to bring about peace in the war-torn country. Ultimately it will require an indigenous, home-made solution in Afghanistan. Proper leaders, not war-lords and drug kings - should be running and administering a country.

It is and Pakistan's concern is very right in fact any country would take a good strategy towards any hostile country but the thing we criticize is that between elephants fight the grass(Afghans) has suffered a lot. I am against those bloody warlords they have sucked people and still many idiots here support them the only way to drop their supporters is education and it will take some time. And surely a proper and home made solution would be 100% in the interest of our neighbors.
 
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it is your generation and your thinking that will Inshallah make the country prosper and develop.

my father's generation used to take a bus from Peshawar and Quetta and would be in Kabul to go to theatre and do picnic and then have more than enough time to bus back home. . .

1950s and 60s were golden years and relatively peaceful.....hopefully we will see those times again. Inshallah.
 
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well - it was Mr. Armitage that made the whole ''take you back to stone age'' threat but it is zardari and the current lot in the political establishment of Pakistan that ARE taking Pakistan to stone ages.....

whatever pride we had is being eroded; but it's not the end of the world. We also need to mature and be able to vote in the capable people to lead us forward during difficult and pressing times.


Pakistan and Afghanistan will be shining in winning colours when the people are united and when there is effective (honest) leadership and an end to the biggest evil --the root of all evils - in the world (corruption)

We have a lot to support each other, trillions of untouched minerals, strategic locations, access to warm waters, bridge between south-east-central Asia and Europe, technology, brave people, Islam!

Zardari is a disaster but the good thing is bad time has an end too. :)
 
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it is your generation and your thinking that will Inshallah make the country prosper and develop.

my father's generation used to take a bus from Peshawar and Quetta and would be in Kabul to go to theatre and do picnic and then have more than enough time to bus back home. . .

1950s and 60s were golden years and relatively peaceful.....hopefully we will see those times again. Inshallah.

Except in 1955 when the Pakistani Embassy in Kabul was ransacked.
 
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