US: Expert (Christine Fair - RAND) who infuriated India offered key post

[Awesome]

Let's not deviate from the topic, what should Pakistanis do is not in question here. What India is doing and what America is not doing is being questioned here.

Have Americans been fighting terrorists for so long that they've become the same monster they set out to kill?

 

[ambidex]

There is another thing that India hasn't foreseen. We can open up new fronts in Assam, Nagaland and other eastern territories. There too you have your OWN SOBs which are ready to kill Indians for a few pennies. We just have to ensure they are well supplied. It can be India's very own Waziristan situation. We won't have to be involved it will be Indians fighting Indians.

It is very likely that this is going to be the next stage of the India/Pakistan war if India doesn't relent on supporting militancy in Pakistan.

O common give a break,
I was thinking you were talking sane.
[MODS EDIT will be not be regretted:You are not in position to aid your own people properly, the way they deserve].

So Pakistan will keep whatever it has been doing since last 4 decades, are you sure?
State sponsored espionage and state sponsored terrorism are both different things. Do not mix every thing together. Both result in different outcomes.
Be learned about these tactics then try to articulate your comments.
Always alarm your self before typing fictional scenarios that rest of the world is reading your notions.

 

[ambidex]

Let's not deviate from the topic, what should Pakistanis do is not in question here. What India is doing and what America is not doing is being questioned here.

Please read the thread properly; without discussing Pakistan you can not conclude an ideal result of this discussion.

Have Americans been fighting terrorists for so long that they've become the same monster they set out to kill?

Can you elaborate this question again? Thanks in advance.

 

[Awesome]

O common give a break,
I was thinking you were talking sane.
[MODS EDIT will be not be regretted:You are not in position to aid your own people properly, the way they deserve].

So Pakistan will keep whatever it has been doing since last 4 decades, are you sure?
State sponsored espionage and state sponsored terrorism are both different things. Do not mix every thing together. Both result in different outcomes.
Be learned about these tactics then try to articulate your comments.
Always alarm your self before typing fictional scenarios that rest of the world is reading your notions.

Actually Pakistan is up to something in India, as they should be. But it is not what the Indians say they are.

If to get Indians to stop terrorism in Pakistan is to support Indian separatist movements, then opening a front in Asom and Nagaland makes perfect sense. If Indians quit from their nefarious activities in Afghanistan and Pakistani tribal areas then Pakistan would have no need to interfere in Indian internal matters.

 

[blain2]

Christine Fair is somewhat tempered by US interests. The problem for most outsiders (including some here and others including Ms. Fair) is simply that they have no background on what India has done to Pakistan.

The memory is only selective and only goes back to 1999-2000 and forward. India has used covert operations ever since the early 60s to stir up trouble against Pakistan. This is the reason the security apparatus is so focused on India.

The problems that were instigated in 1960-62 in the Dir-Bajaur area had an Afghan government footprint with India's backing.

During the 70s, India was involved in massive covert activities against Pakistan that led to the country being split apart. India can't get over the *** kicking she received in a very limited war at the hands of the Chinese in 1962 and the resulting insecurity complex in the Indian psyche, and these so-called experts like Ms. Fair and many others spend cycles on trying to figure out the so-called fixation around the "Indian threat" in Pakistan. As a result, the analysis is fairly shitty quality, addressing only the contemporary events.

For as long as that little piece of land Kashmir stays in the center of conflict, Pakistan and India will have a reason to undermine each other.

This sorry story around victimization of India at the hands of Pakistan requires a little more work to be better understood. Pakistanis are not stupid to pick up fights with a country 10 times their size. There are compulsions that have to be understood and considered from the Pakistani point of view.

If you want to ignore it, that is fine but get ready for constant instability in South Asia. This is not a threat, but a sad and sorry reality.

 

[PostColonial]

^Is India sponsoring the TTP in Pakistan? NO. That's the fact. You can complain about the past all you want, but that's no excuse to blame India for the current mess just because of history. Its nonsense, and you know it.

 

[pmukherjee]

Actually Pakistan is up to something in India, as they should be. But it is not what the Indians say they are.

If to get Indians to stop terrorism in Pakistan is to support Indian separatist movements, then opening a front in Asom and Nagaland makes perfect sense. If Indians quit from their nefarious activities in Afghanistan and Pakistani tribal areas then Pakistan would have no need to interfere in Indian internal matters.

Oh yeah? what an ingenious idea!!! Pakistan has been sending jihadis into India since 1948 (on the Muzaffarabad - Domel - Srinagar road). Gibralter/Topac happened in 1965. Where was Afghanistan or Baluchistan then? Pakistan is incorrigible, cant stand its own medicine.

Best wishes to Ms Fair. She is in the right place, the land of Daniel Pearl. Let her do her worst.

BTW, the so called 'new front', is hardly a new idea. China has been trying to exploit it since 1957. Just where do you think the ULFA, NSCN or the PREPAK and the PLA run when chased by the IA. They take shelter with either their Razakar friends in BD(the loyal lap dogs you left behind and now support with ISI) or in Myanmar(which is being addressed). China plays a very active role in both the countries.

So nothing new there. The Pakistan-China axis in India's NE has been alive and kicking for the past few decades. Much before the Pakistani ministers shouted about Baluchistan. It is being catered for, for the past few decades.

So what else is new, my friend?

 

[SMC]

^Is India sponsoring the TTP in Pakistan? NO. That's the fact. You can complain about the past all you want, but that's no excuse to blame India for the current mess just because of history. Its nonsense, and you know it.

It's a fact? So you I take it, you are some god who knows everything that happens inside governments and outside in the real world. Armchair experts like you have nothing to offer except child-like arguments.

 

[S-2]

"The problem for most outsiders (including some here and others including Ms. Fair) is simply that they have no background on what India has done to Pakistan."

Nor did Pakistanis care so long as Ms. Fair's comments last March could be seen as the smoking gun you so desperately desired.

I didn't see it then nor now. She assiduously avoids stating exactly what the Indians might be up to in Balochistan, if she really even knows now, just as she did last March.

Nonetheless, her comments then, topical though they were and without reference to nor context in the past, were clutched by those here as proof positive of nefarious Indian designs.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Mostly, it boils down to the fact that you've made no case for countervailing activities by India from Afghan or Iranian soil much less a case remotely comparable to that being made daily from your soil for the last eight years by Hekmatyar, Haqqani, Omar, OBL, Nazir (your own citizens), and Bahadur (your own citizens).

 

[Awesome]

Oh yeah? what an ingenious idea!!! Pakistan has been sending jihadis into India since 1948 (on the Muzaffarabad - Domel - Srinagar road). Gibralter/Topac happened in 1965. Where was Afghanistan or Baluchistan then? Pakistan is incorrigible, cant stand its own medicine.

So now you admit there IS Indian terrorism in Pakistan? I don't care about the Past, India is the forever aggressor by occupying Kashmir.

BTW, the so called 'new front', is hardly a new idea. China has been trying to exploit it since 1957. Just where do you think the ULFA, NSCN or the PREPAK and the PLA run when chased by the IA. They take shelter with either their Razakar friends in BD(the loyal lap dogs you left behind and now support with ISI) or in Myanmar(which is being addressed). China plays a very active role in both the countries.

I never claimed intellectual property rights on the idea. But there is always increasing intensity till the point where India is forced to quit its terrorist activities in Pakistan.

So nothing new there. The Pakistan-China axis in India's NE has been alive and kicking for the past few decades. Much before the Pakistani ministers shouted about Baluchistan. It is being catered for, for the past few decades.

I really doubt it, but if true, we may have half way there to get rid of Indian meddling. Nothing can be proven in the NE because its Indians bombing Indians, the same situation you've created in the tribal areas where Pakistanis are bombing Pakistanis.

So what goes round comes around. If according to Ms Fair India should be meddling Pakistan then perhaps Pakistan should be meddling in India.

 

[S-2]

"Let's not deviate from the topic, what should Pakistanis do is not in question here. What India is doing and what America is not doing is being questioned here."

That's what you'd like the topic to be. It's actually not. What the topic actually is about are Ms. Fair's comments about Pakistan.

 

[Awesome]

"The problem for most outsiders (including some here and others including Ms. Fair) is simply that they have no background on what India has done to Pakistan."

Nor did Pakistanis care so long as Ms. Fair's comments last March could be seen as the smoking gun you so desperately desired.

I didn't see it then nor now. She assiduously avoids stating exactly what the Indians might be up to in Balochistan, if she really even knows now, just as she did last March.

Nonetheless, her comments then, topical though they were and without reference to nor context in the past, were clutched by those here as proof positive of nefarious Indian designs.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Mostly, it boils down to the fact that you've made no case for countervailing activities by India from Afghan or Iranian soil much less a case remotely comparable to that being made daily from your soil for the last eight years by Hekmatyar, Haqqani, Omar, OBL, Nazir (your own citizens), and Bahadur (your own citizens).

S-2, what makes you think Pakistanis would forever wait for your tacit approval about Indian complicity in terrorism in Pakistan.

Don't you think if there is a military solution to the Indian problem, it is the duty of the Pakistani government to solve it? I mean someone from Pakistan can think along the lines of, if the consulates are causing thousands of deaths in Pakistan, lets wipe those consulates out and see what happens.

Or perhaps follow Ms Fair's sentiments and replicate that idea in the North Eastern states of India which have a much larger militant population than the tribal areas of Pakistan desperately seeking support.

What's that saying, All's fair in love and war. You know what this.

 

[Awesome]

"Let's not deviate from the topic, what should Pakistanis do is not in question here. What India is doing and what America is not doing is being questioned here."

That's what you'd like the topic to be. It's actually not. What the topic actually is about are Ms. Fair's comments about Pakistan.

Right and there's a natural progression from those comments. I certainly am not shooting off on tangents as some.

 

[S-2]

"I certainly am not shooting off on tangents as some."

I believe you are. Discussing opening new fronts for proxy war in India is reaching beyond the scope of Ms. Fair's commentary, IMV.

Here's more of the previously hailed Ms. Fair's thoughts about Pakistan as offered to the U.S. House of Representatives Armed Services Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee-

Strategy In Afghanistan: Impact Upon U.S. Interests In Pakistan- Testimony November 5, 2009

I apologize now for its current and restricted nature. Probably doesn't offer adequate historical context from fifty years ago to suit blain2 but I'd submit that it still is worthy reading. I'll be doing so now so that means I haven't previewed her statements to assure they fit any S-2 narrative.

Asim, I'm curious-do you read any of these links I offer regarding testimony? I find them important in presenting views that might shape the policy making of us "crazy" Americans. yet NEVER see such from any here regarding your government.

I can only conclude that 1.) you don't care, 2.) such never occurs before your national assembly and/or 3.) that there's no transparent reporting and accountability for such within your official or national news media channels.

Do you have an opinion on this? I think Americans occasionally might talk too much and sometimes too openly. I think your government discusses and receives testimony not at all and never openly to judge by what I see presented here.

Just a side thought and not meant, of course, to de-rail this important thread.

 

[Awesome]

Just a side thought and not meant, of course, to de-rail this important thread.

Of course not.

The suggestion to open fronts in Pakistan was cheered on by Ms. Fair. As it SHOULD BE. So Pakistan SHOULD BE blowing up those Indian consulates and promoting the ULFA?

Please approve, S-2.