US Drone strikes in Pakistan are illegal under international law.

[BaburCM]

"If they want to see Pakistan explode half of the world will go with us."

That is SOOOO Baburish... Just don't think it'll be our half and can't say I'll miss some of you so wail away, stud, if it must because...

...PREDATOR, of course, will continue defending the afghan peoples interest as best it can in lieu of the Pakistani army being able to stop the war made upon Afghanistan by Mehsud, Nazir, Bahadur and many, many others from your lands.

Long sentence but it says it all beautifully, if I say so myself Mr. Proof-provider.

Where are my documents about Baluchistan?

Thanks.

*ignore mode* I haven't read your post.

 

[S-2]

Wouldn't help if you did.

 

[BaburCM]

Wouldn't help if you did.

*ignore mode* Take your one-sided rhetoric elsewhere.

 

[S-2]

Thanks but this is an important thread and I really like my beautifully-expressed thoughts.

I'll stay.

 

[BaburCM]

Thanks but this is an important thread and I really like my beautifully-expressed thoughts.

I'll stay.

*ignore mode* Yep, just another useless opinion. We have got plenty of them. One word of advice would be not to take too seriously whatever you utter.

 

[Horizon303]

"If they want to see Pakistan explode half of the world will go with us."

That is SOOOO Baburish... Just don't think it'll be our half and can't say I'll miss some of you so wail away, stud, if it must because...

...PREDATOR, of course, will continue defending the afghan peoples interest as best it can in lieu of the Pakistani army being able to stop the war made upon Afghanistan by Mehsud, Nazir, Bahadur and many, many others from your lands.

Long sentence but it says it all beautifully, if I say so myself Mr. Proof-provider.

Where are my documents about Baluchistan?

Thanks.

Barbarik are those who droped atomic bomb on Heroshima, Nagasaki, barbarik are those who carpeted bombed the vietnam, Barbarik are those who killed more Iraqis then Saddam.
Where are my document about Iraqi wepons of mass destruction?

 

[S-2]

"Where are my document about Iraqi wepons of mass destruction?"

You must think I care. Review please- No Saddam, no b'aath party, no irredentist ambitions to attack others, a liberated Kurdistan, a dominant Shia majority, a democratically elected government with a real chance to stay that way, $66B in oil revenues already in their treasury. Oil production exceeding 6,000,000 bbls per day this year and...best of all, no sign of WMD for the foreseeable future.

However our early operational mis-steps, I'm quite pleased-as you can tell.

However, you're hijacking this thread with your mindless rant. Please don't. I prefer talking about PREDATOR defending Afghanis from attack by men who use your lands as safe sanctuary from which to make war.

PREDATOR makes it way less safe and must suffice until your army can defeat the I.A. threat it faces in the east, recapture SWAT (it's in NWFP and is prettier), and finally and permanently subdue Bajaur (likely never).

That puts the rest of the Islamic Caliphate of Pashtunistan temporarily out of reach of your forces for re-conquest.

Until then within your ceded lands we must thank goodness for PREDATOR. It's all anybody has standing between Afghanistan and the tyranny so dominant in those sad borderlands.

 

[S-2]

"*ignore mode* Yep, just another useless opinion. We have got plenty of them. One word of advice would be not to take too seriously whatever you utter."

Uh huh Mr. Ignore mode.

Not reading a thing, are you?

 

[BaburCM]

"*ignore mode* Yep, just another useless opinion. We have got plenty of them. One word of advice would be not to take too seriously whatever you utter."

Uh huh Mr. Ignore mode.

Not reading a thing, are you?

*ignore mode*

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Stick to the topic folks.


I do think one observation that goes in favor of the recent Predator attacks is that the reporting in the Pakistani press on the casualties is significantly different from the past.

Its not different in the sense of being more supportive (though some analysis in support of that position has come out), but it is different in that it validates the arguments made in the West that significantly more militants are being killed and collateral damage is being minimized.

Reports in the media a few months ago would have plenty of comments from locals berating wrong targets and primarily civilians being killed, now the same journalists and media largely mention only militant casualties, with quotes from locals substantiating the damage assessment reports attributed to US officials.

While this is in no way conclusive evidence one way or the other, the change in casualty reports from earlier in the Pakistani media should be taken into account, and form the basis of a new discussion.

I think that the same arguments have been rehashed several times over now, and it is perhaps time to move on.

First, the Predator strikes policy is in no way defensible IMO if the casualties are primarily civilian and non-combatants, regardless of whether or not they are sheltering certain elements. As I said before, FATA does not provide an environment where refusing to support the Taliban will leave the residents safe for long, so they cannot be blamed for acting out of a very basic instinct of human survival.

Arguing otherwise is just morally reprehensible and inflammatory and hopefully S-2 you will keep that in mind while defending the Predator attacks.

Second, there is also no doubt that Predator strikes that result in killing large numbers of civilians are only going to boost Taliban ranks and inflame anti-US sentiment in Pakistan and especially FATA. They are therefore counterproductive and should be protested.

It is this issue that really deserves to be the focus, whether the strikes are indeed killing mostly militants or civilians. Additionally, the inability of Pakistan to carry out these strikes instead of the US, or to provide an alternative in the form of deploying ground forces etc., whether due to resource constraints or other calculations (equipment/technology constraints or inability to deploy enough military resources to deal with the backlash when the Taliban react) is a far more interesting issue.

It is also obvious that the Taliban need to stop their attacks into Afghanistan from Pakistani territory as well as their attacks against Pakistani forces and targets in Pakistan. The PA has acted in some agencies, but others largely remain in the control of the militants, and so long as the Taliban/AQ can carry out attacks from FATA, the US can claim the right to self defense from such attacks, and it appears that Pakistan and the US have reached some agreement on how far the US can go in exercising military options in areas that the GoP writ does not exist in.

The general direction of discourse I'm trying to set isn't etched in stone, but the current direction has become stale and redundant, with both sides resorting to defending some reprehensible and unfeasible arguments whose fallacy or legitimacy is self evident, yet continuously debated for one-upmanship.

So back off all of you, understand the constraints and sentiments of the other side, and focus on that which is relevant in the present and going forward.

 

[S-2]

Spoilsport.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Seven Arabs killed in SWA drone attack​

Thursday, March 26, 2009

By Mushtaq Yusufzai & Irfan Burki

PESHAWAR/WANA: Seven militants, believed to be Arab nationals, were killed and three others wounded when two vehicles they were travelling in, came under attack from the US drones near Makeen area of South Waziristan Agency (SWA) on Wednesday afternoon.

Sources close to the militants in the area told The News by telephone that the two vehicles had just left the Makeen bazaar to drop the men at their homes in Malik Shahi village of the SWA when they came under attack from the CIA-operated drone.

The Makeen town of SWA is on the border with Razmak sub-division of the troubled North Waziristan Agency. The area is in control of tribal militants affiliated with Baitullah Mehsud, chief of the banned Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP).

Pleading anonymity, a senior militant commander said the drone fired two Hellfire missiles on two vehicles — a double-cabin pick-up and a car — carrying some militants. He said the militants were on way to their destination after shopping in Makeen bazaar along with local tribal militants, including Maulvi Noor Mohammad and Maulvi Mohammad Shafiq.

According to militant sources, the victims were junior-level Arab fighters and there was no prominent figure among them. Eyewitnesses said one of the missiles hit the pick-up truck accurately, blowing it to smithereens.

Most of the people killed in the attack were those sitting in the pick-up truck, said the sources, adding their bodies were mutilated beyond recognition. The car was partially damaged in the missile strikes as it was at some distance from the pick-up.

The drone reportedly fired missiles on both vehicles when they arrived near a mud house of a Mehsud tribesman, Maulvi Noor Mohammad, at Malik Shahi village. Maulvi Noor Mohammad and Maulvi Shafiq were reportedly playing host to the fighters in their village (Malik Shahi).

It could not be ascertained if Maulvi Noor Mohammad and Maulvi Shafiq, who were travelling along with their guests, were killed or injured in the drone attack. Sources said the house of Noor Mohammad was also partially damaged in the attack, but there was no word on the casualties.

Haji Habib Khan, who is running his private business in Makeen bazaar, said two US spy planes were seen hovering over the area since Wednesday morning. Before firing the missiles, Khan said, the spy planes were observed flying at an extremely low altitude above the village.

AFP adds: “Two vehicles were hit in the strike, killing seven foreigners, including Uzbeks and Arabs,” a tribal security official, Haq Nawaz, told AFP. Taliban quickly sealed off the scene to local residents who came to retrieve the bodies from the wreckage of two vehicles, a witness said.

“I saw the bodies myself. Some of them were completely charred and some were mutilated. I saw raw and bloody pieces of human flesh scattered around the site,” one resident told AFP, too frightened to give his name.

Seven Arabs killed in SWA drone attack

------------------------------------------------------------

Again, a few months ago similar reports quoting similar sources were pointing out extensive collateral damage and dead civilians - now we have confirmed (or as much as it can be confirmed) militant casualties, foreigners, possibly Al Qaeda, in B Mehsud territory.

 

[dbc]

The media softening its stand on Predator attacks is perhaps a sign that the nation of Pakistan has collectively begun its transition from denial to acceptance. I can’t help thinking the attack on the visiting Sri Lankan team somehow accelerated this transition. While it is important to co-ordinate Predator strikes to minimize civilian causality I think the current approach of the PA also needs urgent review. I make the following comment after watching footage of the PA in action posted here on this forum. I question the effectiveness of tanks and helicopters against the Taliban, several smaller teams of elite soldiers acting independently with specific objectives may yield better results?

 

[hembo]

US plans new drone attacks on Pakistan: report
4 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) — Washington is planning new drone attacks on militant targets in Pakistan as part of its overall review of military strategy there and in Afghanistan, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.

Intelligence officials from the United States and Pakistan are composing a "fresh list of terrorist targets for Predator drone strikes along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border," the newspaper said citing officials involved.

However, cooperation between the two allies is complicated by the belief held by US officials that operatives within Pakistan's top intelligence agency are "directly supporting the Taliban and other militants in Afghanistan, even as the US targets those groups," the report said.

In particular, Washington is reviewing its drone program, which the administration views as "a success" and is not expected to be cut, and is seeking to clarify under what conditions drone attacks should be used.

Adjustments could me made to "change the pace and size of the program, and make some technical refinements in an effort to hit targets faster," the report said.

Details of the administration's broader reassessment of military strategy in the region could be released as early as Friday.

Earlier Thursday, officials in Pakistan said a suspected US missile strike killed at least four militants in a tribal region of Pakistan near the border with Afghanistan.

"Two missiles fired from a suspected US drone hit the compound of a local pro-militant tribal elder Malik Gulab Khan, killing four residents," a local security official told AFP.

The strike was the second in as many days by US drones, with a missile on Wednesday killing up to seven alleged Al-Qaeda militants in the nearby Makeen area of South Waziristan.

PTI Link for the same news: US, Pak drawing up fresh list of targets for drone strikes

 

[qaisar52]

I am not against the Drone attacks on Militant especially Banned TT. But if drone attacks are carried out by our Military we will have significant results and also we can have Local People sympathy. Which media is saying not with us? But I think it is only Militant Fear that local people didn’t say any thing about the Banned Militant.
I was watching the ceremony of "NO Rose" in Afghanistan in which Thousands of people shows up to mark this day which was banned in Taliban times. It also seems that when you will overcome your fear you can demonstrate in front of any Power peace fully like the judges movement in our Country.

Thanks
Qais