US attacks China!! a scenario

[Chinese-Dragon]

United States vs China - Consequences of a Nuclear War
United States vs China - Consequences of a Nuclear War | Aby The Liberal

A nuclear war between China and United States will likely be a US first strike on China. Due to its smaller arsenal and limited number of ICBMs, China would not risk a first strike on the US mainland. Hence, we will assume a US first strike and what follows. In the advent of a US first strike on China, the targets are more likely to be Chinese ICBM silos, as the US would first attempt to eliminate chances of retaliation as much as possible. A US attack on China?s ICBM silos would kill at least 1.5 million to 20 million civilians depending on the type and the number of warheads used. Assuming that most of its land based silos have been destroyed, China?s choice of retaliatory strike would be its submarine based SLBMs. Assuming that 12 JL-2 SLBMs with MIRV warheads are launched from two Jin class submarines, at least 20 of the largest American cities could be targeted. This would result in extermination of 25 million to 100 million civilians, which would be more devastating on the US than the first strike would be on China.

If we take more realistic standards, a nuclear war between China and USA would result in much higher casualties for both sides, due to real world lack of considerations. One would most likely obliterate the other or worse, both countries would be destroyed before a truce or victory call could be reached. It is more likely that Americans would suffer the most because of their lower population and lack of creature comforts (that they are habituated to). The Chinese on the other hand, would have more suvivours because of their much larger population, which is also much more adapted to adversity and wars than the American people.

That sounds horrific!

Haven't enough civilians died in the past century already?

Let's hope this never happens.

 

[somebozo]

Just thought I share this valuable cold war story and an honour to Chinese ingeniunity. What started as a reconnaissance mission ended up improving bilaterial ties between USA and China.


EastSouthWestNorth: The Lost Black Cats

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

China still wins because of her large population that can survive after a nuclear attack.

If it ever gets to the point of nuclear war, your also talking about biological and chemical warfare,, massive amounts of radiation and nutron bombs,,,,no one is going to win.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

If it ever gets to the point of nuclear war, your also talking about biological and chemical warfare,, massive amounts of radiation and nutron bombs,,,,no one is going to win.

You are 100% correct.

The loss of millions of civilians is never a "win" for anyone.

It would be best for the world... if all the nuclear powers try to avoid confrontations with each other.

There is just TOO MUCH risk, and no benefit at all, with regards to a nuclear war.

 

[brahmastra]

whole scenario goes in drain if U.S. plug China off from the internet connection.

 

[deckingraj]

You are 100% correct.

The loss of millions of civilians is never a "win" for anyone.

It would be best for the world... if all the nuclear powers try to avoid confrontations with each other.

There is just TOO MUCH risk, and no benefit at all, with regards to a nuclear war.

Or all these fukc heads get these bloody weapons eliminated from this planet earth......

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Or all these fukc heads get these bloody weapons eliminated from this planet earth......

Well that is a long-term goal maybe...

The short-term goal is reducing tension between nations, especially between nuclear powers.

We are all brothers on this Earth... it would be a tragedy for so many innocent civilians to die, regardless of which country they come from.

I hope for a peaceful future.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Then a global textile agreement through the World Trade Organization ended virtually all textile quotas in 2005. But Pakistan still finds itself unable to compete. Much of the business has fallen to China, India and Bangladesh.

The mills in Faisalabad are sluggish. Cotton is being imported from India. Unlabeled fabrics are being imported from China by Faisalabad mills that do no more than sew "Made in Pakistan" labels on them before shipping them abroad, Mr. Rehman said.

"A thousand mills – and 600 are closed or for sale," he said. The mills have closed in the last two or three years, or in the time since trade restraints on textiles have largely vanished around the world. "People are lowering standards, buying cheaper dyes, trying to compete with China."

Chinese textile 'tsunami' hits Africa and Asia


Beijing (AsiaNews/Agencies) – Chinese textiles have hit international markets with a vengeance taking market shares from western manufacturers but also from those in the developing world.

Faced with this textile 'tsunami', many African companies are forced under.

African manufacturers had benefited when the United States opened its domestic market in 2000. Production in Africa soared so much that Asian manufacturers delocalised in countries like Kenya, Madagascar and Swaziland.

In just five years, Lesotho became a major textile manufacturer, with textiles representing 90 per cent of its total export earnings and 31 per cent of African textile exports to the US.

But now all that is disappearing. During the first two weeks of 2005, six plants have shut down with a total job loss of 15,000 with another 10,000 workers put on short term. Unemployment has risen to 40 per cent.

If the USA wanted to attack China, the way to do it would be use the world wide media of the USA to hammer China takeing the jobs away from the poor people of every country in the world....right now China is buying up yarn from countries like Pakistan and causeing tens of thousands of Pakistanis to lose their jobs. The USA could convince poor people in every country in the world that they are loseing jobs to chinese cheap labor and undervalueing the yaun.

 

[CardSharp]

If the USA wanted to attack China, the way to do it would be use the world wide media of the USA to hammer China takeing the jobs away from the poor people of every country in the world....right now China is buying up yarn from countries like Pakistan and causeing tens of thousands of Pakistanis to lose their jobs. The USA could convince poor people in every country in the world that they are loseing jobs to chinese cheap labor and undervalueing the yaun.

Seriously? Who's going to believe that America all of a sudden cared about poor people? America was vehemently pro-globalization and free-trade until someone else beat you in your own game. Too late crying uncle now.

And chinese-dragon grow a pair and stop brown nosing, will you? If you want white friends, I'll lend you a couple of mine. You've posted nothing but sycophantic platitudes about America and China. No one's going to respect you if you don't respect yourself.

 

[dragonbane]

Scenario One: America launches 'preventive war' vs China

Taiwan declares independence!
​

China has anticipated and long prepared itself for this event. After observing "Operation Summer Pulse –04" when US aircraft carrier battle groups converged in the waters off China's coast in mid-July through August of 2004, Chinese planners began preparing to face its own worst-case scenario: the possibility of confronting a total of 15 carrier battle groups composed of 12 from America and three from its close British ally. China's strategists refer to its counter-strategy to defeat 15 or more aircraft carrier battle groups as the "assassin's mace" or shashaujian.

After proper coordination with Russia and Iran and activating their previously agreed strategic plan, troops and weapon systems are pre-positioned. China then launches a missile barrage on Taiwan. Command and control nodes, military bases, logistics centers, vital war industries, government centers and air defense installations are simultaneously hit with short and medium range ballistic missiles armed with conventional, anti-radar, thermo baric and electro-magnetic pulse warheads.

At the North American Aerospace Defense (NORAD) Command and Control Center, ranking defense officials watch huge electronic monitor screens showing seven US and two British aircraft carrier battle groups converging on the East China Sea with another three US carrier battle groups entering the Persian Gulf, while the remaining two US and one British battle groups remain in the Indian Ocean to serve as a strategic reserve.

As the aircraft carrier battle groups advance, China draws out one of its "trump cards" by leaking to the world media that it is dumping its holdings of US Treasury bonds and shifting to gold and euros.

Meanwhile, strategic planners at NORAD watch with glee as they observe on the screen as monitored by their radar satellites that Chinese surface ships are making a hasty retreat as nine allied carrier battle groups advance toward the Philippine Sea and Chinese waters near Taiwan.

The assassin's mace: China's anti-satellite weapons
Glee and ecstasy soon turn to shock as monitor screens suddenly go blank. Then all communication via satellites goes dead. China has drawn its second "trump card" (the assassin's mace) by activating its maneuverable "parasite" micro-satellites that have unknowingly clung to vital (NORAD) radar and communication satellites and have either jammed, blinded or physically destroyed their hosts.

This is complemented by space mines that maneuver near adversary satellites and explode. Secret Chinese and Russian ground-based anti-satellite laser weapons also blind or bring down US and British satellites used for C4ISR (command, control, communication, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance). And to ensure redundancy and make sure that the adversary C4ISR system is completely "blinded" even temporarily, hundreds of select Chinese and Russian information warriors (hackers) specifically trained to attack their adversary's C4ISR systems simultaneously launch their cyber offensive.

For a few precious minutes, the US and UK advancing carrier battle groups are stunned and blinded by the "mace", ie, a defensive weapon used to temporarily blind a stronger opponent. But the word mace has another meaning; one which is deadlier and used in combination with the first.

A mace can be a spiked war club used in olden times to knock out an opponent. Applied in modern times, the spikes of the assassin's mace refer to currently unstoppable supersonic cruise missiles capable of sinking aircraft carriers that are in China's inventory; complemented by equally unstoppable "squall" or SHKVAL rocket torpedoes and regular 65 cm-diameter wake-homing torpedoes, bottom-rising rocket-propelled mines, and "obsolete" warplanes converted into unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAVs) firing anti-ship missiles from standoff positions and finally dive-bombing into the heart of the US and UK aircraft carrier armada.

Missile barrage on advancing carrier battle groups
A few seconds after the "blackout", literally hundreds of short and medium-range ballistic missiles (DF7/9/11/15s, DF4s, DF21X/As, some of which are maneuverable) pre-positioned on the Chinese mainland, and stealthy, sea-skimming and highly-accurate cruise missiles (YJ12s, YJ22s, KH31A/Ps, YJ83s, C301s, C802s, SS-N-22s, SS-NX-26/27s, 3M54s & HN3s) delivered from platforms on land, sea and air race toward their respective designated targets at supersonic speed.

Aircraft carriers are allotted a barrage of more than two dozen cruise missiles each, followed by a barrage of short and medium-range ballistic missiles timed to arrive in rapid succession.

Supersonic cruise missiles constitute China's third deadly "trump card" against the US – part of the so-called assassin's mace. These unstoppable cruise missiles may be armed with 440-lb to 750-lb conventional warheads (or 200-kiloton tactical nuclear warheads 10 times stronger than Hiroshima) traveling at more than twice the speed of sound (or faster than a rifle bullet).

The cruise missiles, together with the SRBMs and MRBMs (short and medium-range ballistic missiles) may also be armed with radio frequency weapons that can simulate the electro-magnetic pulse of nuclear explosions to fry computer chips, or fuel-air explosives that can annihilate the personnel in aircraft carriers and battleships without destroying the platforms.

Their effective range varies from less than 100 to 1,800 kilometers from stand-off positions. Delivered by long-range fighter-bombers and submarines, their range can be extended even further. In fact, stealthy Chinese and Russian submarines can deliver such nuclear payloads to the US mainland itself.

No US defense vs supersonic cruise missiles
The US and UK aircraft carrier battle groups do not have any known defense against the new supersonic missiles of their adversaries. The Phalanx and Aegis ship defense systems may be effective against subsonic cruise missiles like the Exocets or Tomahawks, or exo-atmospheric ballistic missiles, but they are inadequate against the sea-skimming and supersonic Granits, Moskits and Yakhonts or similar types (Shipwreck, Sunburn and Onyx - North Atlantic Treaty Organization codenames) of modern anti-ship missiles in China's inventory.

Not only China and Russia have these modern cruise missiles, so do Iran, India and North Korea. These missiles can be delivered by SU-27 variants, SU-30s, Tu22M Blackjacks, Bears, J6s, JH-7/As, H-6Hs, J-10s, surface ships, diesel submarines or common trucks.

Adding to the problems facing aircraft carriers are the SHKVAL or "squall" rocket torpedoes installed in some Chinese and Russian submarines and surface ships. At 6,000 lbs apiece, these torpedoes travel at 200 knots (or 230 miles per hour) with a range of 7,500 yards guided by autopilot. They are designed to sink aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines. Again, it is unfortunate for the US and UK to have no known or existing defenses against this new generation of rocket torpedoes.

China's sea mines
Complicating matters for the US aircraft carrier battle groups are the hundreds of hard-to-detect, rocket-propelled, bottom-rising sea mines that are anchored and hidden on the sea bottom covering pre-selected battle sites in the East China Sea and the Philippine Sea designed to home in on submarines and surface ships, particularly aircraft carriers.

These sophisticated sea mines (EM-52s) have been deployed by Chinese and Russian submarines before the missile attack on Taiwan in anticipation of the major event that is to follow.

Finally, in addition to all these asymmetric weapons, the US and UK aircraft carrier battle groups will have to contend with the thousands of "obsolete" Chinese fighter planes converted into unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAVs) launching missiles at stand-off positions and finally diving kamikaze-style into the heart of the carrier battle groups.

Chinese and Russian submarines fire their inventory of anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCMs) and "squall" rocket torpedoes at the aircraft carriers and submarines of the US and UK as the carrier battle groups come within range. As the battle progresses, the Chinese and Russian submarines maneuver to the rear of the carrier battle groups to complete the encirclement.

In less than an hour after launching the saturation barrage of missiles on the US and UK naval armada, all the aircraft carriers and their escorts of cruisers, battleships and several of the accompanying submarines are in flames, sinking or sunk, turning the East China Sea and the Philippine Sea into a modern-day "Battle of Cannae".

Meanwhile, the Chinese fleet that conducted a strategic retreat forms a phalanx along the forward positions off China's coast, ready to augment the hundreds or thousands of land-based long-range surface-to-air missiles of China (SA-10s, SA-15s and SA-20s) with their own short, medium and long-range air defense missile systems.

Applying its long-held military doctrine of "active defense", China also launches simultaneous missile attacks on the forces-in-being and logistics-in-place of the US and its allies in Japan, South Korea, Guam, Okinawa, Diego Garcia and Kyrgyzstan, hitting these US bases with missiles armed with radio frequency weapons, fuel-air explosives and conventional warheads. As another Chinese military doctrine states: "Win victory with one strike."

this has got to be the stupidest most lopsided scenario ever!!

1. Russia will NEVER cooperate with china, if it doesn't trust china with its jet engines i doubt it'll give it "supersonic" missiles and the other crap you posted. and dont forget about ur southern neighbor

2. you forgot about blockading china's oil supply which is likely to happen first and china can't do anything about that.

3. those "space mines" and not feasible, first off it costs a ton to launch them, and if you want to maneuver them it costs even more.

4. its not that easy to hack into something and disable it, and its only going to get harder(remember all the most high tech companies are located here and they WILL work with the govt to secure the internet), and also wouldn't there be a counter strike?

5. if those satellites are taken down, then its likely that the new hypersonic plane will be operational by then, which will relaunch them, or serve as the satellite itsself.

6. expect the same thing on chinese satellites

7. china doesn't have enough missiles to take out 15 cbg, taiwan, and other bases, and they could be mistaken for a nuke attack

8. 500 tomahawks are deployed, with more likely on the way by that time, that's enough to destroy a lot of missile bases/air bases/whatever is important.

9. dont forget the B2s u wont see them coming and the f-22s/f-35s from Japan/SK

10. i'm pretty sure that the plan vessels will be at the bottom of the ocean before they can retreat(thanks to the submarines)

11. again the sea mines are prolly easily detectable and easily avoidable.

12. the f 35 has a radius of 1100 km on internal fuel, easily increased to 1500 km by external tanks, meaning those cbgs could be out of the range of those short range cms and bms and only the long range cms and irbms can reach the cbgs and they aren't as mass produced as those short range ones, thus easier to avoid.

13. did u forget about the 449 kc-135 tankers or their replacements in the future? they alone would allow about 1200 fighters to operate with extended range(i'm not sure how much some1 can go calculate that, but i'm pretty sure they could double the range of most fighters) all while staying far away from the danger zone

i'm sry but this scenario was poorly thought out and retarded...

but 1 thing is true, with an increasing threat from china the military here will only grow...

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Seriously? Who's going to believe that America all of a sudden cared about poor people? America was vehemently pro-globalization and free-trade until someone else beat you in your own game. Too late crying uncle now, hypocrites.

It would work,,,, democracy, human rights, colonial china takeing away their jobs,censorship,,,I could do a great job of propaganda against China

1. Large scale forced human organ harvesting:

Organ Harvested from live Falun Gong adherents, in China Labor camps, hospitals, prisons and military facilities, started from 1999 till present

Reports:
- “bloody harvest“, by David Matas, Esq. and Hon. David Kilgour, Esq. Canada
- UN report on China organ harvesting

2. Largest wave of resignation from the Chinese Communist Party and its affiliated organizations is happening:

Till June 2010, more than 74 million Chinese have quit the CCP and its affiliate organizations– the Chinese Youth League (CYL) and the Chinese Young Pioneers (CYP). People are continue quitting at a rate about 50,000 to 70,000 per day.

This wave started from the end of 2004, triggered by the publication of “Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party” by the overseas largest Chinese-language media The Epochtimes.

The publication revealed for the first time a historical account of the CCP’s formation, its advocacy of violence and deception, its destruction of traditional beliefs and the disaster it has brought upon the Chinese people.

Chinese people post their statements on the Quit CCP Statements website (in Chinese)

More information can be found from Quitccp.org

3. “6-10 office”, a modern Gestapo organization exists


Formed by former leader of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) Jiang Zemin, the “610 office” has its central office in Beijing, and branches in all the Chinese cities, villages, governmental agencies, institutions, and schools.

It is an organization that is allowed to exist outside of the established framework of the CCP and the Chinese government. The power it has far exceeds that which is officially authorized under the Chinese constitution and other laws; furthermore, it is free from budgetary constraints.

This organization does not have any legal basis, which is very similar to Nazi Germany’s Gestapo and the “Central Committee of the Cultural Revolution” during the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

More details from WOIPFG.org ‘s special report: General Report on the “610 Office”

4. Torture widely used in more than 300 Foreced Labor camps located all over the country

Details: List of China Modern Torture Methods (slideshow)

5. As many as 80 million Chinese died after the Communist party gained power since 1949

This number exceeds the total number of deaths in both World Wars combined.

Details: On the Chinese Communist Party’s History of Killing (external link), by the Epochtimes

6. 5000-year-long traditional Chinese culture was destroyed by the Chinese Communist party

Especially in the 10-year-period “culture revolution”, from 1966 to 1976

Details: On How the Chinese Communist Party Destroyed Traditional Culture (external link), by the Epochtimes

Youtube Video: First half, Second half


7. Tibetan shot to death by Chinese soldiers, October, 2006

Youtube Video: Olympic host China -Their Soldiers Killing Innocent Tibetans

Reports: Video footage shows Tibetans shot in the back by Chinese soldiers, October 13th, 2006

8. Armed police publically open fire to villagers in south China, December, 2005

Place: Dongzhou village, Shanwei City, Guangdong Province, southeast China
Date: Dec. 6, 2005
Reason: Farmers protest the government plans of partially infilling the bay and build a new power plant

Details: Dongzhou protests, from wikipedia

9. Gulja killing- Handreds, perhaps thousands of ethnic Uighurs killed by armed police, 1997


Place: Gulja (Yining) city, Xingjiang, northwest China
Date: Feb. 5~6, 1997
Reason: calling for an end to discrimination against ethnic Uighurs

Details: Torture Campaign Leaflets, Amnesty International

- Rebiya Kadeer’s personal account of Gulja after the massacre on 5 February 1997, Amnesty International

10. Tiananmen massacre – June. 4, 1989


Thousands of students shot to death by tanks and soldiers on Tiananmen square in capital city Beijing in 1989

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Let's not get into a contest as to "which country is worse".

Clearly it is a FACT that China's human rights record, is MUCH worse than that of the USA.

I don't think anyone will deny this simple fact, clearly we still have to do a LOT more to improve human rights for our own citizens.

 

[CardSharp]

It would work,,,, democracy, human rights, colonial china takeing away their jobs,censorship,,,I could do a great job of propaganda against China


etc etc etc....

You couldn't write your way out of a wet paper-bag. Even propaganda requires something more than a 5th grade vocabulary

 

[mike05]

Then a global textile agreement through the World Trade Organization ended virtually all textile quotas in 2005. But Pakistan still finds itself unable to compete. Much of the business has fallen to China, India and Bangladesh.

The mills in Faisalabad are sluggish. Cotton is being imported from India. Unlabeled fabrics are being imported from China by Faisalabad mills that do no more than sew "Made in Pakistan" labels on them before shipping them abroad, Mr. Rehman said.

"A thousand mills – and 600 are closed or for sale," he said. The mills have closed in the last two or three years, or in the time since trade restraints on textiles have largely vanished around the world. "People are lowering standards, buying cheaper dyes, trying to compete with China."

Chinese textile 'tsunami' hits Africa and Asia


Beijing (AsiaNews/Agencies) – Chinese textiles have hit international markets with a vengeance taking market shares from western manufacturers but also from those in the developing world.

Faced with this textile 'tsunami', many African companies are forced under.

African manufacturers had benefited when the United States opened its domestic market in 2000. Production in Africa soared so much that Asian manufacturers delocalised in countries like Kenya, Madagascar and Swaziland.

In just five years, Lesotho became a major textile manufacturer, with textiles representing 90 per cent of its total export earnings and 31 per cent of African textile exports to the US.

But now all that is disappearing. During the first two weeks of 2005, six plants have shut down with a total job loss of 15,000 with another 10,000 workers put on short term. Unemployment has risen to 40 per cent.

If the USA wanted to attack China, the way to do it would be use the world wide media of the USA to hammer China takeing the jobs away from the poor people of every country in the world....right now China is buying up yarn from countries like Pakistan and causeing tens of thousands of Pakistanis to lose their jobs. The USA could convince poor people in every country in the world that they are loseing jobs to chinese cheap labor and undervalueing the yaun.

US government provides huge subsidies to its farmers and uses its status in the IMF to pressure countries like Jamaica to buy its products when borrowing money. Do you know that powdered milk imported from the US is sold cheaper then locally produced Jamaican milk (what do you think happens to their industry)? How about the US sanctions on countries till the extend where their basic day to day living gets effected? FYI US does unfair practices to other countries using different tactics, so please spare us the morality preaching.

Besides the US is to blame for making China the manufacturing giant it is today, if you feel so strongly about it please stop visiting Wal Mart on your next shopping trip.

 

[TorontoNoctis]

Heh the OP sounds like something out of a James Bond or Tom Clancy movie. Maybe even Transformers, with Decepticons hacking the MILNET in seconds and sitting on the satellite. Is that where you got the idea for the space mines?

But seriously, I was under the impression CIWS was meant to stop exactly the type of attack proposed in the OP. Dozens of cruise missiles? There is no way so few missiles that would get past Phalanx, no matter how much hacking or destruction of GPS you did. It's an entirely self contained unit.

If Russians with TU-22M expected to send 50-200 Backfire per USN carrier group to sink just one carrier there is no way Chinese can get away with just "a few dozen" missiles fired from land bases.

Besides these obvious technical problems, the OP also doesn't describe realistic US or Chinese motivations, and neither does it talk about the most interesting part, invasion of Taiwan and air battle over Taiwan. Sorry, I have thought up of better scenario sitting on the toilet .