US assures China 38th parallel pullback if North Korean war | Guardian

[Martian2]

I said: "3. If North Korea refuses to budge, the only solution is war."

Here is a recent citation from Senator Lindsey Graham to support my claim.

Lindsey Graham: There's a 30 Percent Chance Trump Attacks North Korea | The Atlantic (December 14, 2017)
“I don’t know how to say it any more direct: If nothing changes, Trump’s gonna have to use the military option, because time is running out.”

 

[Zsari]

China and the United States appear to have reached a deal on North Korea.

1. China cuts off oil to North Korea.
2. US agrees to talk to North Korea without preconditions.
3. If North Korea refuses to budge, the only solution is war.
4. China has set up multiple refugee camps along the China-North Korea border.
5. US has assured China that American troops will pull back to the 38th parallel (DMZ line) after a war with North Korea.

This proposal is reasonable and satisfies the concerns of both China and the United States. North Korea's Kim Jong Un has one last chance to denuclearize before the US takes military action.

This is similar to the former situation with Saddam Hussein in Iraq. The US gave Saddam one last chance to let the nuclear weapon inspectors perform their job according to the peace agreement signed between the US and Iraq. Saddam reneged and the US took military action.

Saddam was hanged. North Korea's Kim Jong Un can either choose to denuclearize or they'll probably hang him too.
----------

US ready for talks with North Korea 'without preconditions', Tillerson says | The Guardian (December 12, 2017)

"Tillerson also revealed that the US had been talking to China about what each country would do in the event of a conflict or regime collapse in North Korea, saying that the Trump administration had given Beijing assurances that US troops would pull back to the 38th parallel, which divides North and South Korea, and that the only US concern would be to secure the regime’s nuclear weapons.

Earlier this week it emerged that China is building a network of refugee camps along its 880-mile (1,416km) border with North Korea, in preparation for a potential exodus that could be unleashed by conflict or the collapse of Kim Jong-un’s regime." (third and fourth full paragraphs from the top of the article)

Aside from the US going back on its promises, what happen if US army pulled back from the 38th, but S.Korea army stayed? Is China going to eject them as well? Then the legitimacy of Chinese intervention would be in jeopardy.

 

[TaiShang]

Until this day, There is NO statements from China that they are agree to let US troops cross 38th Parallel to attack North Korea.
And also they never ever make a statement, They will attack North Korea.

And I believe, Chinese will never trust US.
America already have very bad reputation when it comes to an agreements.
They try to tell and convince, that Iraqi have WMD and they need to attack.
But after that, we all know they are a LIAR

That's I absolutely agree with. If China ever negotiated with the US and allowed a potential nuclear fallout next door just because US made a bloody promise, or because Kim misbehaves or breaks the heart of China's diplomats, that would be a strategic mistake on grand scale.

Did US sign a document about pulling back? Where is it? Who signed it? Foreign ministers?

Doesn't China really have any channels to talk to Kim government?

How do we know?

Isn't it possible that China and DPRK are actually staging a game in tandem?

If Mainland China ever allowed, or even hinted to allow or bless the US to start a bloodshed, that would make Beijing a worse vassal than late Qing.

There's no practical reason why China would care a bit about the life and prosperity of those in the US Mainland more than it cared about the life and prosperity of those in both Koreas.

I said: "3. If North Korea refuses to budge, the only solution is war."

Here is a recent citation from Senator Lindsey Graham to support my claim.

Lindsey Graham: There's a 30 Percent Chance Trump Attacks North Korea | The Atlantic (December 14, 2017)
“I don’t know how to say it any more direct: If nothing changes, Trump’s gonna have to use the military option, because time is running out.”

What I do not understand, Dear Martian, is why Kim should budge, but not Trump? Why do we have to side with Trump?

 

[Piotr]

That's I absolutely agree with. If China ever negotiated with the US and allowed a potential nuclear fallout next door just because US made a bloody promise, or because Kim misbehaves or breaks the heart of China's diplomats, that would be a strategic mistake on grand scale?

Did US sign a document about pulling back? Where is it? Who signed it? Foreign ministers?

Doesn't China really have any channels to talk to Kim government?

How do we know?

Isn't it possible that China and DPRK are actually staging a game in tandem?

If Mainland China ever allowed, or even hinted to allow or bless the US to start a bloodshed, that would make Beijing a worse vassal than late Qing.

There's no practical reason why China would care a bit about the life and prosperity of those in the US Mainland more than it cared about the life and prosperity of those in both Koreas.



What I do not understand, Dear Martian, is why Kim should budge, but not Trump? Why do we have to side with Trump?

Hipa-Powa Murika can’t deal with North Korea alone ? Dotard Trump can’t deal with Kim alone ? It’s one thing to bomb weddings in Afganistan and torture prisoners in Abu Ghraib and it’s different thing to fight against opponent that can fight back - http://thesaker.is/debunking-the-flagwaving-myths-about-an-attack-on-north-korea/

Kim is by no means perfect but at least he is not a madman like the Dotard - a pussy-grabber with connections to the Ku Klux Klan. And there are no US military bases in North Korea with US Marines raping women and children like they do in Okinawa.

After what US terrorists like Bush, Clinton and Obama did to Afganistan, Iraq and Libya I understand why North Koreans want nuclear weapons.

 

[Pangu]

Maybe it's time to re-establish 汉四郡 eh? Hahahaha.

President Xi just received S.K. president & reiterated no conflict allowed to happen on the peninsular, the Russians are also in N.K. talking to Kim, so stop believing the media circus.

 

[TaiShang]

Maybe it's time to re-establish 汉四郡 eh? Hahahaha.

President Xi just received S.K. president & reiterated no conflict allowed to happen on the peninsular, the Russians are also in N.K. talking to Kim, so stop believing the media circus.

Yes, looks like a different set of geopolitics at play. Let's hope Mr. Moon won't be brought down because of his warming up to China.

***

China, ROK agree to advance relations along right track
Xinhua, December 15, 2017

Chinese President Xi Jinping (L) holds a welcome ceremony for President Moon Jae-in of the Republic of Korea (ROK) before their talks at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing, capital of China, Dec. 14, 2017. (Xinhua/Li Tao)
The leaders of China and the Republic of Korea (ROK) on Thursday agreed to advance bilateral relations to ensure the long-term stability of their ties.

The commitment was made during talks between Chinese President Xi Jinping and his ROK counterpart Moon Jae-in in Beijing.

Xi welcomed Moon on his state visit to China for the 25th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic ties between the two countries.

China and the ROK are friendly neighbors and strategic cooperation partners, Xi said.

He said the two countries have made remarkable progress in exchanges and cooperation in various fields, which has brought tremendous benefits to both sides.

There have been some twists and turns in China-ROK relations, which have provided enlightenment for both sides on how to create a better future together on the basis of mutual respect for each other's core interests, said Xi.

He said China attaches great importance to relations with the ROK and is ready to work with the ROK to maintain the original intention of establishing diplomatic relations and take full account of the well-being of the two peoples.

Both countries should uphold the basic principle of respecting each other's core interests and major concerns as well as the principle of treating each other as neighbors with sincerity, he said.

Xi also suggested that the two sides adhere to the principle of mutual benefit and win-win cooperation to ensure that the development of bilateral relations is on the right track.

The 19th National Congress of the Communist Party of China (CPC) has brought broader prospects for China's cooperation with its neighboring countries, including the ROK, said Xi.

He called on the two sides to strengthen political communication, cement the foundation of mutual trust, and make good use of the exchange mechanism between legislative bodies and political parties of the two countries.

China welcomes the ROK's participation in the Belt and Road construction, said Xi, hoping to promote the alignment of the Belt and Road Initiative with the ROK's development strategy.

He called for increased exchanges in areas such as youth, education, science and technology, media, sports, health and local affairs, for the long-term and stable development of bilateral ties.

Moon's visit coincided with China's annual memorial for the victims of the Nanjing Massacre, which fell on Wednesday. Moon extended his empathy to the victims.

This was Moon's fifth trip to China and the first as ROK president. He expressed his admiration for China's development achievements.

Calling the two countries important trading partners, Moon said the development of regional countries is closely linked with China's Two Centenary Goals.

The ROK expects joint efforts with China to cement political trust and friendship between the two peoples, boost cooperation in various areas and coordination in global and regional affairs, Moon said.

The ROK hopes to participate in the Belt and Road Initiative and promote the building of a community with a shared future for mankind, he said.

The two leaders also exchanged their views on the situation on the Korean Peninsula.

"We must unswervingly uphold the goal of a nuclear-free peninsula and never allow war or chaos on the peninsula," said Xi.

China believes that ultimately, the Korean Peninsula issue could only be solved through dialogue and consultation, he said.

China and the ROK have important common interests in maintaining peace and stability on the Korean Peninsula, Xi added.

China will continue to strengthen communication and coordination with the ROK on maintaining stability and preventing wars on the Korean Peninsula and promoting peace and talks, said Xi.

He said China supports the continued improvement of the relations between the two countries on the Korean Peninsula through dialogues and contacts, which will help ease tensions and finally settle the issue.

Moon said the ROK is firmly committed to resolving the Korean Peninsula nuclear issue through peaceful means, and is willing to work with China to safeguard peace and stability in the region.

Xi reaffirmed China's position on the deployment of the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system in the ROK and hoped the ROK will properly deal with the issue.

After their talks, the two leaders witnessed the signing of cooperative documents in areas such as economic and trade, green and ecological industries, environment, health, agriculture, energy and Winter Olympics.

 

[Martian2]

Aside from the US going back on its promises, what happen if US army pulled back from the 38th, but S.Korea army stayed? Is China going to eject them as well? Then the legitimacy of Chinese intervention would be in jeopardy.

The US is currently the commander of South Korean armed forces in the event of a war.

S. Korea Seeks to Take Over Wartime Control of Military From US | Voice of America (September 28, 2017)
"South Korean President Moon Jae-in says his government is increasing efforts to take back wartime operational control of its military.

Wartime operational control, known as OPCON, describes the U.S.-led command of South Korean military forces in time of war."
----------

Obviously, the South Koreans must also retreat back to the 38th parallel.

Otherwise, China's military will be forced to intervene a second time in North Korea.

Getting tired of having to militarily intervene in North Korea (1950-1953, 2017?), China may decide to annex North Korea to solve the problem once and for all.

That's I absolutely agree with. If China ever negotiated with the US and allowed a potential nuclear fallout next door just because US made a bloody promise, or because Kim misbehaves or breaks the heart of China's diplomats, that would be a strategic mistake on grand scale.

Did US sign a document about pulling back? Where is it? Who signed it? Foreign ministers?

Doesn't China really have any channels to talk to Kim government?

How do we know?

Isn't it possible that China and DPRK are actually staging a game in tandem?

If Mainland China ever allowed, or even hinted to allow or bless the US to start a bloodshed, that would make Beijing a worse vassal than late Qing.

There's no practical reason why China would care a bit about the life and prosperity of those in the US Mainland more than it cared about the life and prosperity of those in both Koreas.



What I do not understand, Dear Martian, is why Kim should budge, but not Trump? Why do we have to side with Trump?

North Korea's error is its refusal to talk to China or the United States.

North Korea is building more powerful nuclear weapons. It is unclear whether North Korean nukes are boosted-fission or low-level fusion bombs.

North Korea has to budge, because it is creating instability in the world.

Every country in the world is watching the North Korean situation.

The world is trying to stop the escalation in nuclear weapons and further testing. If every country had them, local conflicts would be devastating.

"Jul 19, 2017 - The CTBT will formally enter into force after 44 designated 'nuclear-capable states' (as listed in Annex 2 of the treaty) have deposited their instruments of ratification with the UN secretary-general. To date, 183 states have signed and 166 have ratified the treaty. Yet of the 44 specified countries, India, ..."

Stopping North Korea's nuclear program promotes WORLD STABILITY. If North Korea is not stopped, South Korea and Japan will demand to have nuclear weapons to protect themselves from North Korea. The nuclear dominoes will keep falling and every Asian country will eventually have nuclear weapons.

After North Korea succeeded in its atomic detonation, it should have stopped. Like Israel, it now has the ability to defend itself against an invasion.

Kim Jong Un is doing something very different from Israel. North Korea is trying to move to full-scale thermonuclear weaponry and developing the ICBMs to threaten every country in the world.

There is no way that the United States will permit this to happen.

Global Stability demands a stop to further progression of North Korea's nuclear bomb program with ever-increasing yield. The latest North Korean nuclear bomb test was 120 kilotons.

The US has one request for China. Either you stop Kim Jong Un or the US will. The goal is Global Stability.

Either China comes up with a solution or the US will do it the hard way through military action.

Since Kim Jong Un refuses to talk to China or the United States, I predict President Trump will bomb North Korea in the next two years if Kim Jong Un persists in nuclear testing.

 

[K210]

A part of me wishes that US would attack NK so that kim can teach the US a lesson. US is a bully that needs to be brought into line.

This is not the same NK of the 90s but i suspect US will only learn that once they truly realise what they are up against.

Guam should prepare itself for a 280 kiloton hydrogen bomb....perhaps the us mainland should also depending on NK's RV tech...

 

[navtrek]

There is a difference. If the US does not honor its 38th parallel pullback promise to China then the PLA will "move" the US military.

No other country, besides China, has ever pushed back the US Army. China did it at great cost during the Korean War (1950-1953).

China's military technology has advanced significantly since the Korean War. China will move the US Army back to the 38th parallel (DMZ line) again if necessary.

But the price to be paid for that isn't worth it. I don't think Americans have the appetite for this war.

 

[randomradio]

China and the United States appear to have reached a deal on North Korea.

1. China cuts off oil to North Korea.
2. US agrees to talk to North Korea without preconditions.
3. If North Korea refuses to budge, the only solution is war.
4. China has set up multiple refugee camps along the China-North Korea border.
5. US has assured China that American troops will pull back to the 38th parallel (DMZ line) after a war with North Korea.

This proposal is reasonable and satisfies the concerns of both China and the United States. North Korea's Kim Jong Un has one last chance to denuclearize before the US takes military action.

This is similar to the former situation with Saddam Hussein in Iraq. The US gave Saddam one last chance to let the nuclear weapon inspectors perform their job according to the peace agreement signed between the US and Iraq. Saddam reneged and the US took military action.

Saddam was hanged. North Korea's Kim Jong Un can either choose to denuclearize or they'll probably hang him too.
----------

US ready for talks with North Korea 'without preconditions', Tillerson says | The Guardian (December 12, 2017)

"Tillerson also revealed that the US had been talking to China about what each country would do in the event of a conflict or regime collapse in North Korea, saying that the Trump administration had given Beijing assurances that US troops would pull back to the 38th parallel, which divides North and South Korea, and that the only US concern would be to secure the regime’s nuclear weapons.

Earlier this week it emerged that China is building a network of refugee camps along its 880-mile (1,416km) border with North Korea, in preparation for a potential exodus that could be unleashed by conflict or the collapse of Kim Jong-un’s regime." (third and fourth full paragraphs from the top of the article)

It doesn't say anything about S Korea pulling back.

If there is a war, as far as S Korea is concerned, the goal will be unification.

 

[Martian2]

It doesn't say anything about S Korea pulling back.

If there is a war, as far as S Korea is concerned, the goal will be unification.

Did you not see the citation where the US is in charge of South Korean forces during wartime?

If the US pulls back, logically the South Koreans under US command follow their American commanders.

If not, one million PLA army troops move across the Yalu River.

If the South Koreans want to stand alone against China's Army in North Korea, they are welcome to do so.

There is a general principle in war that you do not get to fight for free. You must put something of equal value at risk.

If China defeats the South Korean army in North Korea, China annexes BOTH North Korea and South Korea.

 

[randomradio]

Did you not see the citation where the US is in charge of South Korean forces during wartime?

If the US pulls back, logically the South Koreans under US command follow their American commanders.

If not, one million PLA army troops move across the Yalu River.

If the South Koreans want to stand alone against China's Army in North Korea, they are welcome to do so.

There is a general principle in war that you do not get to fight for free. You must put something of equal value at risk.

If China defeats the South Korean army in North Korea, China annexes BOTH North Korea and South Korea.

Then the article should say "allied forces", not just "US forces". US forces and allied forces are not the same.

If China fights South Korea, then China is at war with the US also.

 

[Saif-ud-Din Qutuz]

I said: "3. If North Korea refuses to budge, the only solution is war."

Here is a recent citation from Senator Lindsey Graham to support my claim.

Lindsey Graham: There's a 30 Percent Chance Trump Attacks North Korea | The Atlantic (December 14, 2017)
“I don’t know how to say it any more direct: If nothing changes, Trump’s gonna have to use the military option, because time is running out.”

A billion dollar question, why does it bother US? So many countries have nukes, China don't say anything like that. Russia doesn't say anything like that. Why US wants to bully other countries? US should first denuclearize itself and its Allies then ask other countries to follow her, else, STFU.

 

[Jlaw]

A billion dollar question, why does it bother US? So many countries have nukes, China don't say anything like that. Russia doesn't say anything like that. Why US wants to bully other countries? US should first denuclearize itself and its Allies then ask other countries to follow her, else, STFU.

US has always been a paranoid country. In the 18th century they were hunting witches, in 1950s they jailed and executed many Communist sympathisers. In 2017, it's hunting men who allegedly harassed women

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

What guarantee is there if kim feels betrayed by china he won't launch nukes at beijing and shanghai,along with usa and allies?He can do that with existing technology.If he is already going down he has nothing to lose.