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US & Afghan Shelter Baluch Terrorists and Assist Escape to Switzerland

Well, of course that's difficult to disagree with - either way, whether Pakistan want or not, many things will change and Pakistan will adapt -- on North Waziristan, do you give any credence to the suggestion that AQ and TTP have made it their base?
 
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Well, of course that's difficult to disagree with - either way, whether Pakistan want or not, many things will change and Pakistan will adapt -- on North Waziristan, do you give any credence to the suggestion that AQ and TTP have made it their base?

Let me explain to you, there are very few AQ fighters, & there are mostly different factions of the Taliban that aren't even friendly to one another, they are very localized 'tribal' groups/factions that will live peacefully in Pakistan as long as they aren't being targeted. This fact should be realized, & the AQ fighters need to be focused at, not the Taliban:

Bajaur: Tehrik Nifaze Shariate Mohammadi (AQ faction), Jaish-e-Islami (JI), Hizb-e-Islami Gulbideen

North Waziristan: Hafiz Gul Bahadur group (TTP affiliated), Haqqani group

South Waziristan: Mullah Nazir group, TTP Mehsud faction, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (AQ faction),

Mohmand Agency: Ahle-Hadith (Salafi group affiliated with AQ), TTP Umar Khalid faction

Orakzai Agency: TTP Aslam Farooqi faction, LeJ, Commander Tariq Group, TTP Mehsud faction

Kurrum Agency: Maulvi Noor Jamal group

Khyber Agency: Lashkr-e-Islam (lead by Mangal Bagh), Hajji Namdar group

Out of all these groups, only 3 are AQ. The rest are different Taliban factions competing with one another. These are more like 'tribal' factions than they are based on a religious ideology.
 
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Well, of course that's difficult to disagree with - either way, whether Pakistan want or not, many things will change and Pakistan will adapt -- on North Waziristan, do you give any credence to the suggestion that AQ and TTP have made it their base?

Remember, the TTP was formed in the FATA regions in December 2007, as a result of the Lal Masjid Operations in May 2007. Fighting them will only increase their number, & heeding the demands of America of killing everyone will produce more terrorists everyday. An amicable solution must be reached, America is losing the war on terror already & wants to pull Afghanistan & Pakistan with it.
 
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I think you have got some things really seriously wrong, at least I hope you do, other wise I would have to conclude that you are choosing to misrepresent - please do some research on the TTP - I encourage you be a serious interlocutor, you should have a good command of facts, it's a disservice to all if god forbid, misrepresentation come to be seen as method.

Back to AQ, do you think AQ should be allowed to slip away, -- and do you think the arabs and the Uzbeks in particular should be treated the same ??
 
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I think you have got some things really seriously wrong, at least I hope you do, other wise I would have to conclude that you are choosing to misrepresent - please do some research on the TTP - I encourage you be a serious interlocutor, you should have a good command of facts, it's a disservice to all if god forbid, misrepresentation come to be seen as method.

Back to AQ, do you think AQ should be allowed to slip away, -- and do you think the arabs and the Uzbeks in particular should be treated the same ??

What do I have wrong about the TTP or AQ? The TTP was officially formed in December 2007, when 13 affiliate groups united together & officially formed the TTP, with Baitullah Mehsud as the leader. Instead of pointing where I'm wrong (because you clearly don't know), you just choose to slander without even presenting an argument. Tell me what I've said wrong, & I'll back up everything with evidence. You make claims of me slandering, yet don't have anything to refute my arguments. Get an education, & then come back. Refute my claims, & stop saying preposterous things if you can't say anything.
 
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I think you have got some things really seriously wrong, at least I hope you do, other wise I would have to conclude that you are choosing to misrepresent - please do some research on the TTP - I encourage you be a serious interlocutor, you should have a good command of facts, it's a disservice to all if god forbid, misrepresentation come to be seen as method.

Back to AQ, do you think AQ should be allowed to slip away, -- and do you think the arabs and the Uzbeks in particular should be treated the same ??

There are more than enough Pakistani troops to fight the AQ fighters, who are only in a few thousands. However, there are a lot lot more Taliban fighters, but they are not directly involved with the West, & they don't have a global agenda. In fact, they are localized & divided by tribes & tribal affiliations. These factions are even rivals against each other. They should be handled with differently.
 
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* Karzai admitted in a meeting with Richard Baucher that he was harboring BLA leadership and didn't believe they were terrorists. "Official US cables"

* US knew it and did nothing.
 
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And we knew it all along. I'm sure General Kiyani and Pasha have brought up this issue with the Americans several time and their refusal to act is one of many reasons for the trust deficit that prevails on our side.
 
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Wasn't this in the news a while ago?:confused:

WikiLeaks Cablegate: Karzai says India not involved in the Bugti struggle - Documents News - IBNLive
¶11. (S/NF) Assistant Secretary Boucher asked Karzai if he knew where Bugti was. Karzai responded that a lot of Bugtis come to Afghanistan. In fact, over 200, with their sons and money, have come. Karzai said he advised them to go the United Nations for asylum, but many were frightened and are in hiding. The United Nations declined to deal with the issue, considering it too sensitive. Karzai said he was “not interested in having them in Afghanistan as it was too much trouble.”

¶12. (S/NF) In his meeting with Pakistani Prime Minister Aziz, Karzai had said that the Bugtis were not terrorists and represented nobility in Afghanistan, so it would be hard to turn them over to Pakistan. Boucher clarified that it was the grandson that the Pakistanis were after for instigating an uprising. Karzai responded that fomenting uprising does not make one a terrorist. The real terrorists were Bin Laden and Mullah Omar. Afghanistan needs a sign that Pakistan will stop supporting these terrorists. Boucher asked Karzai which side should move first and queried whether Afghanistan could take the grandson into custody or strike some political deal. Karzai explained that the Bugtis would blame the United States if Afghanistan turned them in. There would be disgust toward both Afghanistan and the United States.
 
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Cross-posting old post:
Afghanistan's president, Hamid Karzai, has been sheltering a Pakistani rebel for several years, much to the annoyance of Pakistan's generals, US embassy cables show.

Brahamdagh Bugti, a leader of the nationalist insurgency in Balochistan province, emerges as a pawn in often stormy relations between Kabul and Islamabad that are spiced with intrigue and failed American efforts to broker a solution.

A stream of Pakistani demands for Bugti's return are stonewalled by Karzai; Bugti is accused of kidnapping a senior UN official; and the Islamabad CIA station chief is roped into an initiative to move Bugti to Ireland that turns out to be based on a false promise.

Bugti's case was a "neuralgic" one for Pakistani generals, Americans believed. The Bugtis are at the forefront of a rebellion that seeks greater economic and political autonomy for Balochistan, Pakistan's largest but least developed province.

The 20-something rebel fled Pakistan in 2006 after surviving a military assault that killed his grandfather, Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti. Since then Pakistani generals have frequently accused Kabul of secretly sheltering the young rebel.

In 2007, General Pervez Musharraf said Bugti was "enjoying freedom of movement to commute between Kabul and Kandahar, raising money and planning operations against Pakistani security forces".

When the US assistant secretary of state, Richard Boucher, said Karzai had promised that nobody would be allowed to use Afghan territory to attack Pakistan, Musharraf replied: "That's bullshit."

The controversy touches on one of the Pakistani military's core fears: that India could use Afghan-based proxy forces to foment upheaval in Pakistan.

In 2007 Musharraf said he had "ample proof" of Indian and Afghan support for Bugti; the prime minister, Shaukat Aziz, said Bugti had travelled to Delhi on a fake Afghan passport. Note the indian connection , Bugti would not get travel documents wihtout Karzai's knowledge and also india's knoweldge to where he was heading

American analysis suggests the fear of Indian meddling helps explain Pakistan's support for militant proxies such as the Afghan Taliban; a view supported by a veiled threat Musharraf issued through a US diplomat. "If India wants to continue, let's see what our options will be," he reportedly said.

Karzai, meanwhile, has refused to bend to Pakistani demands to surrender Bugti, accusing Islamabad of using the issue to deflect attention from its support of the Taliban. "Fomenting uprising does not make one a terrorist," he said in one meeting before asking US officials to stop taking notes because the matter was "too sensitive".

In public, Afghan officials have consistently denied sheltering Bugti, but in a meeting with a senior UN official in February 2009, Karzai "finally admitted that Brahamdagh Bugti was in Kabul", the cables recorded.

The admission followed the kidnapping of a senior American UN official, John Solecki, in Balochistan. After Solecki was snatched from Quetta, Balochistan's capital, in early February, Pakistan's army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, told the US he had phone intercepts that proved Bugti had orchestrated the kidnapping.

If we can reliably intercept Bugti's calls on kidnapping of the American then we surely must have other intercepts also regarding bugti getting support from india

On 15 February, the US asked the UN secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, to call Karzai , urging him to speak with Bugti and have Solecki released. Karzai agreed, but said he doubted Bugti was involved. US officials later complained that Karzai was blocking American contact with the rebel.

Solecki was released on 4 April in Balochistan. Speaking to the Guardian by phone later that year, Bugti denied any role in the kidnapping, but admitted he was leading the fight against Pakistan's army.

"We want ownership of our own resources, our land, our coastal belt – nothing else," he said. "We want to solve this problem politically; nobody wants to use the gun. But because of what is happening the armed struggle is necessary." Bugti declined to say where he was speaking from.

Bugti supporters say he is under tight Pakistani surveillance in Kabul and so, fearing for his life, they tried to move him to safer exile last December, the cables showed.

In Islamabad, one of Bugti's uncles told US and UN officials that the "deputy prime minister" of Ireland had unofficially agreed to grant Bugti asylum. This information triggered a meeting between a senior UN official and the US ambassador.

Subsequently the CIA station chief met with the head of Pakistan's intelligence service (ISI), General Shuja Pasha, to discuss the matter. But Pasha blocked the initiative, saying Bugti should be forced to "return to Pakistan to stand trial for his crimes", and the US and UN dropped the idea.

"While getting Bugti out of Afghanistan is still a good idea, we do not believe UNHCR should be involved," the cable noted, referring to the UN refugee agency.

However, the entire scheme may have been based on nothing. The uncle told the Guardian he had never claimed to have secured asylum for his nephew in Ireland. "This is news to me," he said. "I have no knowledge or information about this."

The substantial, if publicly underplayed, US strategic interest in Balochistan is reflected in the number of cables on the province. Balochistan contains vast and largely untapped mineral resources, Taliban training camps, and is a major route for US military supplies being trucked into Afghanistan, second only to the Khyber Pass. Balochistan is also home to a secretive desert airstrip used by the CIA to launch drone attacks on al-Qaida and Taliban targets in the tribal belt.

By removing Bugti from Afghanistan US officials believe they could remove an "irritant" in Pakistan-Afghanistan relations. They also fear he could be traded against other militants of greater interest.

Last February, after the arrest of the senior Taliban leader Mullah Barader in Karachi, US diplomats said to "watch out for consideration of some type of exchange of Barader with Bugti".

But Barader remains in Pakistani custody and Bugti may no longer be in Afghanistan. A senior western official in Islamabad said the rebel had applied for asylum in France, which was refused, and in Norway, where the application was pending. A senior UN official said Bugti was sheltering in the United Arab Emirates; a human rights official said he sometimes travels to Geneva. Also, the diplomats said, Pakistan's military chiefs – Kayani and Pasha – would be reluctant to lose a "huge potential propaganda pawn in Barader".

The cable said that while Bugti may be a core issue at some political level, the "truths Barader could tell about ISI not to mention a host of other Pakistani notables, likely outweigh any potential wins in bringing Bugti to Pakistani justice".

The allegations appear to be accurate. In a January 2007 meeting with assistant secretary of state Richard Boucher, Karzai said that more than 200 Bugtis had fled Pakistan into Afghanistan. He had advised them to seek asylum with the UN but many were frightened and had gone into hiding.


WikiLeaks cables reveal Afghan-Pakistani row over fugitive rebel | World news | The Guardian
So much for the US not being aware of terrorists attacking Pakistan sheltering on Afghan soil and receiving open sanctuary from the Afghans.

Not only that, the US appears more interested in finding Bugti sanctuary in some other country, instead of returning a terrorist leader to Pakistan to stand trial.

And then they rant about Osama Bin Laden ....
 
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