Upgrading Pakistan’s Special Operations Forces in a cost effective way.

[Bossman]

The US won the war, the Afghanis lost it. State building should have never been part of the war objective. The military defeated Al Qaida and the Taliban and brought an end to their terror sultanate. They should have left once that was accomplished.

So yes, you need military technology to win modern wars. Your corny whataboutism shows lack of imagination and nothing more.

Do you still think US won the war? If not stop you BS about fancy uniforms and equipment .

 

[Falcon26]

Do you still think US won the war? If not stop you BS about fancy uniforms and equipment .

Recent events in Afghanistan only reinforce my initial post. The US military won the war but the Afghan government and security forces lost it. State-building should not have been attempted.

So, yes, you need “fancy uniforms and equipment” to win modern wars.

 

[Metal 0-1]

Assalam o Alaikum

View attachment 772821View attachment 772822View attachment 772823\

Has new gear been issued to SSG(Plate Carriers, Magpuls, etc.)?
Is it being issued to all SSG or just some units?
@Reichmarshal @PanzerKiel @Metal 0-1

These plate carriers have been around for quite a while.

Those are retention loops for securing mags in pouches.

Not a significant change. I kinda want them to upgrade their holsters for now.

 

[Bossman]

Recent events in Afghanistan only reinforce my initial post. The US military won the war but the Afghan government and security forces lost it. State-building should not have been attempted.

So, yes, you need “fancy uniforms and equipment” to win modern wars.

This is a cop out and you know it’s wrong. Let’s talk about the Arabs, the Mongols, the Turks, the Afghans, the Vietnamese, the Taliban the list goes on. It was never about the uniforms and equipment it was about tactics, strategy and balls. The US lacked all. US started the war against the Taliban and they lost pure and simple. ANA did not even exist when the war started, if ANA failed the US and NATO are responsible. Even ANA had fancy equipment and uniforms.

It is ok to be wrong but not ok to insist that you are right when you are wrong. Open up your mind and learn something new. I do every day.

 

[SSGOPERATOR]

Assalam o Alaikum
Which helmets and nods is SSG using these days? I have heard they have been upgraded.
@PanzerKiel @Reichmarshal @Metal 0-1

 

[Metal 0-1]

They use MICH 2001 helmets and pvs-14 niggt vision

Assalam o Alaikum
Which helmets and nods is SSG using these days? I have heard they have been upgraded.
@PanzerKiel @Reichmarshal @Metal 0-1

 

[SSGOPERATOR]

They use MICH 2001 helmets and pvs-14 niggt vision

No, as much as I know at least not these ones.

 

[Metal 0-1]

No, as much as I know at least not these ones.

Okay

 

[SSGOPERATOR]

Are those peq 15s or some other one. Also some new gear(helmets, etc.)


@Metal 0-1 @Reichmarshal @PanzerKiel

 

[Signalian]

Are those peq 15s or some other one. Also some new gear(helmets, etc.)


@Metal 0-1 @Reichmarshal @PanzerKiel

0:39 to 0:45
Reminds me of days when i was examined by instructors standing on roof rails.

 

[Signalian]

can we compare our SSG to top Tier SOFs like CAG and Seals.

Comparisons help in real life Ops ? Not sure. SSG has still alot to accomplish in regards to routing TTP from Pakistan as well as Ops behind enemy lines.

 

[Metal 0-1]

Are those peq 15s or some other one. Also some new gear(helmets, etc.)


@Metal 0-1 @Reichmarshal @PanzerKiel

Our esteemed members will surely call me a armchair expert but they did huge no go's during clearing of that structure.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Our esteemed members will surely call me a armchair expert but they did huge no go's during clearing the structure.

Most of what we see of these exercises on cameras are for show, there’s a reason the trainings and the exercises multiple last weeks but what we see is 30 seconds of the last day when they’re “displaying” for the visiting chief or whoever is there, its just a closing ceremony.
It’s seen in basically every exercise at this point. I remember during the recent ATATURK exercises they were even doing cuts and retakes of the video to get it right on camera. Obviously there is also an element of secrecy to such trainings and exercises, the tactics used are obviously nothing new but generally actual trainings are never shown.

What I’m trying to say is, they’re just putting on a show, not seriously training. Otherwise It would be a little alarming that whenever any SF visits Pakistan they lose their training.

I feel pictures taken during the actual exercises themselves give a better picture of whatever was going on, for example, compare the photos taken during the exercises with the Russians and then watch the closing ceremony video, you can kinda see it’s just a formality (or of PA soldiers/SF training in foreign countries as they usually tend to take pictures during exercises rather than doing a show-off ceremony at the end, case in point, LCB training in Jinnah exercises in Turkey a few years back, take a look at some of those photos).

 

[Metal 0-1]

Most of what we see of these exercises on cameras are for show, there’s a reason the trainings and the exercises multiple last weeks but what we see is 30 seconds of the last day when they’re “displaying” for the visiting chief or whoever is there, its just a closing ceremony.
It’s seen in basically every exercise at this point. I remember during the recent ATATURK exercises they were even doing cuts and retakes of the video to get it right on camera. Obviously there is also an element of secrecy to such trainings and exercises, the tactics used are obviously nothing new but generally actual trainings are never shown.

What I’m trying to say is, they’re just putting on a show, not seriously training. Otherwise It would be a little alarming that whenever any SF visits Pakistan they lose their training.

I feel pictures taken during the actual exercises themselves give a better picture of whatever was going on, for example, compare the photos taken during the exercises with the Russians and then watch the closing ceremony video, you can kinda see it’s just a formality (or of PA soldiers/SF training in foreign countries as they usually tend to take pictures during exercises rather than doing a show-off ceremony at the end, case in point, LCB training in Jinnah exercises in Turkey a few years back, take a look at some of those photos).

You are right for the most of the part. I don't think they should they should go full Ape shit on these public videos(Aka Formality videos) because these are the ones that give clear picture of unit's capability.

I'll look into those photos.

Obviously there is also an element of secrecy to such training and exercises, the tactics used are obviously nothing new but generally actual trainings are never shown.

I almost learn a new thing about CQB from a former US Army Ranger and US Marine Recon Operator on a public platform including the doctrine and tricks of these units. How many people in Pakistan preaching this kind of knowledge. I'm sure they have high standards of CQB than us.

 

[iLION12345_1]

You are right for the most of the part. I don't think they should they should go full Ape shit on these public videos(Aka Formality videos) because these are the ones that give clear picture of unit's capaabilty.

I'll look into those photos.




I almost learn a new thing about CQB from a former US Army Ranger and US Marine Recon Operator on a public platform including the doctrine and tricks of these units. How many people in Pakistan preaching this kind of knowledge. I sure they have high standards of CQB than us.

I don’t really mean secrecy in that way, as I said all these tactics are common knowledge, it’s just more of an unspoken agreement to not put your and another countries joint training and tactics for everyone to see. Call it more of an OPSEC thing I suppose. It would be a little strange if videos of SAS and SEALs training together were posted on YouTube, but their tactics and training are openly discussed by former members in books and interviews.


On an unrelated note about training in the PA.
I also see a lot of criticism about how PAs infantry fights when seen in actual videos from warzones that obviously don’t end up on this forum, and while yes there’s still a lot to improve in regards to training in the PA, especially For regular infantry, people never stop to realize that the man you’re watching is in a warzone getting shot at, you don’t think the same then, take a look at videos of US soldiers getting shot at, they’re not exactly doing anything perfectly either, surely better than how our soldiers would react, but people expect them to be a robot or something, doing everything perfectly, just doesn’t work that way.

If anything there is a greater deficit in The available support for these soldiers often times than their training (here the difference between a PA soldier and an FC soldier kicks in massively, we only hear “soldier” and think they’re The same but the unfortunate truth is that most of the recent casualties are FC boys with no air cover or maybe even lower training standards. And so many PA and FC deaths are down to the fact that they do not have the equipment they need, how can you fight back against an ambush if you’re dead before it starts because you were sitting in an unarmored car and got shot through the windshield.)

I also saw some people commenting how they were training in the recent PATS, man, that “reality show” was the worst thing I’ve ever seen, please don’t think that training or fighting Is anywhere close to reality, public consumption to the max.

These same soldiers that look funny in a reality show or seem to be making Mistakes in videos go to exercises like the Cambrian patrol where they’re up against the same militaries we often call better. They’re tested for everything including CQB, yet almost always PA units, and that too regulars, are the ones winning gold. And despite All the losses (which I’ll always agree should have been much lower if so many tactic and equipment related issues were addressed), PA is still the only force to defeat a massive internal insurgency in this way.

It’s not only individual training At the end of the day, maybe PA isn’t the best at anything, but despite its flaws it’s good enough at everything that it was able to win. Many armies field well trained soldiers that have never been in combat, once you’ve been in combat, the second, third, fourth time you‘re gonna do better. Almost every PA soldier has now served in Red-zones, So has most of the SSG. That experience is invaluable.

Still it’s good that people keep pointing out its mistakes and want it to improve, it’s only when certain people only look at the downsides and never the upsides when other people start to get annoyed.