Update on CPEC and departure of Chinese Ambassador from Islamabad

[blain2]

China isn't crazy. Iran is China's A game. Pakistan is just a plan B.

If Iran was plan A, then CPEC would not have been prioritized.

Keep in mind that the moment JCPOA gets approved, implemented, Iran will open up to the West. China is aware of that. Yes, China will make some inroads too but the West will ensure that Iran is not ceded to Chinese influence. Just like the West can deal with Saudi/Wahabi set up, they can align the same with Iranian mullahs after placating the Israeli concerns vis-a-vis Iranian nuclear program.

Pakistan was, is and will remain China's surest way to get to the warm waters of the Arabian Sea/Persian Gulf.

 

[Crimson Blue]

How many have actually listened to the discussion?

The speaker is not Pro-PTI and there is a fair bit of criticism on Imran Khan when he tried to renegotiate IPP contracts with China. Imtiaz Gul has been reporting on China for past 10+ years and this discussion of Pakistan's relations with China is not limited to PTI's 3.5 years.

The discussion is mostly about CPEC, the Chinese ambassador part was only few sentences, you can ignore that if that hurt your political feelings.

 

[Chakar The Great]

What a non sense article. Based on complete lies.


Pakistan- China ties are as strong as they were on 10 April this year. Stop this propaganda.

 

[Dalit]

Despite the urge to simplify and keep on targeting the current CoAS, Pakistan has to maintain ties with both China and the US. This is not a zero sum game which is what IK had cornered Pakistan into with his ill-advised statements and inaction on some of the diplomatic fronts.

Pakistan has the following dependencies (not a comprehensive list but a starting point) on the US/West currently incase its lost on some people:

a) Budget deficit - IMF/WB support to ensure we can pay our import bill [China, Gulf will not support bi-lateral facilities unless the IMF has approved a plan for Pakistan to get its economy back on track, otherwise all these countries are worried that they are putting their money into a bottomless pit with no guarantees that they will see their loans getting serviced (paid back) by Pakistan.]
b) Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) dependencies - FATF progression to whitelist to ensure we can get open, uninterrupted FDI which is essential for the overall growth of the economy. Without this, we cannot grow the net-size of the economy.
c) EU GSP+ status
d) Alignment on Afghanistan - Getting the West's support to help Afghanistan economically otherwise we have another massive economic basket case, along with our own to deal with.
e) Security alignment - Most of our major weapon systems are of US/Western origin and continued maintenance, upgrades and new acquisitions are tied with our ties to these countries. Case in point is that of Turkey having walked away from the US and then back to the US camp facing the reality that neither Russia, nor their own indigenous capabilities can fill the gap in the absence of US/Western weapons. Our situation is further complicated with the massive injection of western military technology finding its way into the Indian military.
f) Maintaining a semblance of ties with the US to ensure that they can be at least a broker (even if not a fair one) on the India/Kashmir situation. In the absence of the US, talks between Pak-India are not going to happen.


They are well within their right to evaluate but nothing earth-shattering in this regard is happening. If anything, Pak-China will see even more focused alignment in the coming years given what else is happening around the region and specifically in the pacific.

Please elaborate on what you mean by "It's proven to be an unstable and unreliable partner" with facts!

I have seen the same being repeated a few times by you on this forum with nothing factual in support.

Imran Khan wasn't and isn't anti-US.

You guys opt for Western economic route which is not always in the best interest of Pakistan. Now you have summed up a whole list of dependencies which could have been easily diversified.

Of course you are going to play along now to satisfy Western demands. Even if that means initiating regime change.

What a non sense article. Based on complete lies.


Pakistan- China ties are as strong as they were on 10 April this year. Stop this propaganda.

No they are not. China won't invest in Pakistan as it used to. Simply because it has better options. For a starter Iran is a much better investment. China has already announced a multibillion partnership with Iran which supersedes Pakistan.

 

[blain2]

Imran Khan wasn't and isn't anti-US.

You guys opt for Western economic route which is not always in the best interest of Pakistan. Now you have summed up a whole list of dependencies which could have been easily diversified.



No they are not. China won't invest in Pakistan as it used to. Simply because it has better options. For a starter Iran is a much better investment. China has already announced a multibillion partnership with Iran which supersedes Pakistan.

Imran Khan isn't the sharpest cookie around. Lets realize this. You don't need to be anti-anything. This is an art that he needs to learn. He says to his constituency that he is not anti-American but when words out of his own mouth find their way to the West, it complicates the situation for the whole of Pakistan. Then he doubles down on his chemistry with Donald Trump when the Democrats are in the office (I.e. Joe Biden). This and then the situation vis-a-vis Russia visit were on his watch and anyone with their thinking cap on could understand how the west perceived him. What if the Taliban were to go to ND and say something about Pakistan, how would we perceive that and how would that change our relations with them? Remember the recent statement by the Taliban that they have no problems sending their personnel to India for training? How were the optics of that? So these things matter if there are dependencies. I would love to believe that we did not need any foreign support, but I would be lying to myself.

Now you have summed up a whole list of dependencies which could have been easily diversified.

Please explain how you would diversify and if you, with your intelligent self, can come up with this diversification, then why did IK and team not do that already as these issues have been facing Pakistan since his day 1 on the job?

No they are not. China won't invest in Pakistan as it used to. Simply because it has better options. For a starter Iran is a much better investment. China has already announced a multibillion partnership with Iran which supersedes Pakistan.

Chinese, like any other global power, do not play a zero sum game. Its only us who run from one camp to another. Their interests are to grow their ties with Pakistan and with Iran and any others who will work with them. It is our own insecurity (now being ad-nauseam repeated by PTI) that leads us to believe we no longer have Chinese as our friends.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

What discussion? How Bajwa sold Pakistan to America?

Bajwa saved khans government from humiliation shehbaz is going through these days.

 

[Dalit]

Imran Khan isn't the sharpest cookie around. Lets realize this. You don't need to be anti-anything. This is an art that he needs to learn. He says to his constituency that he is not anti-American. But when words out of his own mouth find their way into the West, it complicates the situation for Pakistan. This and then the situation vis-a-vis Russia visit were on his watch.


Please explain how you would diversify and if you, with your intelligent self can come up with this diversification, then why did IK and team not do that already as these issues have been facing Pakistan since his day 1 on the job?


Chinese, like any other global power, do not play a zero sum game. Its only us who run from one camp to another. Their interests are to grow their ties with Pakistan and with Iran and any others who will work with them. It is our own insecurity (now being ad-nauseam repeated by PTI) that leads us to believe we no longer have Chinese as our friends.

PDM lackeys are very bright, right? You guys imported them back into power when the Western powers demanded this just so you can secure your wishlist of dependencies. I am glad you used the ugly word yourself to show how much Pakistan is shackled economically to the West.

You need to answer a very critical question. What business does the army have in interfering in politics? Who do you think the army is to decide what is good and bad for Pakistan on an economic and political level?

There are tons of nations around the world with which Pakistan can trade and do business. There are continents in the world where Pakistan doesn't exist. You like to put all your eggs in the Western basket because your army is their lackey. The sons and daughters of various armed personnel study in Western capitals. The Pakistani military generals receive training in the US. Naturally your loyalty lies with the US and West.

Get off the high horse. We knew from day one when China announced their regional cooperation with Iran that this was going to supersede CPEC. Iran is more stable and economically sound for China to invest. It makes perfect sense from so many angles. CPEC is a back-up plan for China.

 

[blain2]

*Please stay on point and no cursing. I have removed the abusive content.*

 

[Dalit]

*Please stay on point and no cursing. I have removed the abusive content.*

I got banned on this forum for much less. Moderators didn't like my opinion and got me banned for months. You just removed his cuss words and let him off the hook after he cussed my mother. Nice one.

I will especially curse this @Tameem after Maghrib prayer today. I will raise my hands and request Allah for sweet punishment.

 

[blain2]

PDM lackeys are very bright, right? You guys imported them back into power when the Western powers demanded this just to secure your wishlist of dependencies. I am glad you used the ugly word yourself just to show how much Pakistan is shackled economically to the West.

You need to answer a very critical question. What business does the army have in interfering in politics? Who do you think the army is to decide what is good and bad for Pakistan on an economic and political level?

There are tons of nations around the world with which Pakistan can trade and do business. You like to put all your eggs in the Western basket because your army is their lackey. The sons and daughters of various armed personnel study in Western capitals. The Pakistani military generals receive training in the US. Your loyalty lies with the US and West.

Get off the high horse. We knew from day one when China announced their regional cooperation with Iran that this was going to supersede CPEC. Iran is more stable and economically sound for China to invest. It makes perfect sense from so many angles. CPEC is a back-up plan for China.

You conveniently deflected by not answering how you would diversify by attacking me as a PDM lackey. Let's hear how you would diversify and why is it that the PTI leadership did not do so if these options were so readily available.

I only support Pakistan and the establishment which exists to perpetuate Pakistan's survival and growth. I could care less about the Sharifs, the Zardaris, and also the Khans etc. But I also accept them all as a reality of today's Pakistan with all it's warts.

I have also answered this question in bold many times over and will not do so here because this thread has nothing to do with it.

 

[Dalit]

You conveniently deflected by not answering how you would diversify by attacking me as a PDM lackey. Let's hear how you would diversify and why is it that the PTI leadership did not do so if these options were so readily available.

I only support Pakistan and the establishment which exists to perpetuate Pakistan's survival and growth. I could care less about the Sharifs, the Zardaris, and also the Khans etc. But I also accept them all as a reality of today's Pakistan with all it's warts.

I have also answered this question in bold many times over and will not do so here because this thread has nothing to do with it.

Pakistan army belongs in the barracks!!! It has no business with Pakistan's growth!!!

 

[VCheng]

I only support Pakistan and the establishment which exists to perpetuate Pakistan's survival and growth. I could care less about the Sharifs, the Zardaris, and also the Khans etc. But I also accept them all as a reality of today's Pakistan with all it's warts.

I criticize the military for all its wrongdoing, but, as you accept the other "warts" as above, I also accept the overbearing supra-Constitutional role of the establishment as a fact that must be endured, and just another "feature" of the Pakistani system of governance, without any judgement as to whether it is right or wrong.

To remain on topic, CPEC represents a potentially important trade route for the future.

 

[Dalit]

I criticize the military for all its wrongdoing, but, as you accept the other "warts" as above, I also accept the overbearing supra-Constitutional role of the establishment as a fact that must be endured, and just another "feature" of the Pakistani system of governance, without any judgement as to whether it is right or wrong.

To remain on topic, CPEC represents a potentially important trade route for the future.

Where in the Pakistani constitution does the Pakistani army have the right to play a constitutional or economic role? Stop fabricating nonsense. There is no such thing as supra-Constitutional role.

 

[Crimson Blue]

What a non sense article. Based on complete lies.


Pakistan- China ties are as strong as they were on 10 April this year. Stop this propaganda.

First point: its not an article, it is a discussion in audio format ...... listen to it before commenting.

This guy has been reporting on China policy longer than you are posting on this forum. He has also been qouted by Chinese media. The information is based on his discussion with his contacts in Beijing.

When was the last time you were mentioned in a Chinese publication?

 

[vi-va]

Thank you for posting with clarity. There is a silly campaign going on in Pakistan that tends to portray Pak-China relations from the lens of the former PTI government in that since the PTI government is no longer in power, the Chinese are pulling back and rethinking their relations with Pakistan. What is unfortunate is that party politics are taking a preference over national interest in this tussle. For our keen-eyed Chinese friends, this should be understood that for the vast majority of Pakistanis and the establishment, China is a strategic ally.

The above campaign obviously does not reflect the reality which is that China-Pak relations are based on the understanding between the establishments within the two countries. All Pakistani governments, including the current one, are also fully vested in maintaining these ties with China. As such, Pakistan remains fully committed to its strategic relations with China despite efforts to disrupt (the attack on Chinese professors at the KU at the hands of Baloch nationalists etc.) notwithstanding.

Agree.
China has no party politics, as we all knew. Pakistan-China relationship are strategic, mature, long term, mutual beneficial and there are huge common interest.

Regardless which government is ruling, China will be there.
I am pretty sure the current government, especially PM Shehbaz Sharif are very familiar with Pakistan-China affair. He was CM of Punjab, CPEC in Punjab goes well.