Unwanted Fighter : MIG-35

[sancho]

Less capable than A2a than rafale, with ability to use every armament that rafale, can use with its mil bus, including the r77-SD which outranges pretty much everything in the market

First of all, only because it could integrate other weapons in theory, it doesn't mean they would be on offer for the Mig, nor that we would pay for the integration, so please stop these useless speculation about weapons the Mig never will have and stick to those that are really available for it.
Secondly even with the same weapons the Mig would be inferior, because of higher RCS, less engine performance, no SC, less numbers of hardpoints, less payload..., not the weapons are the issue, but the fact that it's an outdated design!

reasons for procuring a 80+mil european fighters compared to 35+ mil Mig 35

Oh please, we pay more that $45 millions for our Mig 29Ks, without AESA, TVC..., not to forget the additional costs for western avionics, since the Russians are not good enough.

It would perfectly compliment Su 30 MKI strike aircrafts as the escorts needed for strike missions

Which doesn't really makes sense, since MKI is IAFs prime air superiority fighter and will remain the same till FGFA arrives. So IAF would let MKI escort strike packages and not the less capable Mig, only because that is the only role where it has any capabilities.

 

[Nishan_101]

Not just RAM coatings, they also use saw tooth and it seems like some sort of canopy coating too in this pic. You can also see the saw-tooth near radome.

What is the name of this weapon, please specify it in details and more of its latest pictures.

 

[Devianz]

What is the name of this weapon, please specify it in details and more of its latest pictures.

Kh-59MK2

The original Kh-59 is propelled by a powder-fuel engine, and incorporates a powder-fuel accelerator in the tail. The folding stabilizers are located in the front of the missile, with wings and rudder in the rear. The Kh-59 cruises at an altitude of about 7 meters above water or 100-1,000 meters above ground with the help of a radar altimeter. It can be launched at speeds of 600 to 1,000 km/h at altitudes of 0.2 to 11 kilometers and has a CEP of 2 to 3 meters. It is carried on an AKU-58-1 launch pylon.

The Kh-59ME has an external turbofan engine below the body just forward of the rear wings, but retains the powder-fuel accelerator. It also has a dual guidance system consisting of an inertial guidance system to guide it into the target area and a television system to guide it to the target itself.

Target coordinates are fed into the missile before launch, and the initial flight phase is conducted under inertial guidance. At a distance of 10 km from the target the television guidance system is activated. An operator aboard the aircraft visually identifies the target and locks the missile onto it.

Kh-59MK - 285 km-range anti-shipping variant with turbofan engine and ARGS-59 active radar seeker.
Kh-59MK2 - Land attack variant of Kh-59MK (fire-and-forget).

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Kh-59MK2

The original Kh-59 is propelled by a powder-fuel engine, and incorporates a powder-fuel accelerator in the tail. The folding stabilizers are located in the front of the missile, with wings and rudder in the rear. The Kh-59 cruises at an altitude of about 7 meters above water or 100-1,000 meters above ground with the help of a radar altimeter. It can be launched at speeds of 600 to 1,000 km/h at altitudes of 0.2 to 11 kilometers and has a CEP of 2 to 3 meters. It is carried on an AKU-58-1 launch pylon.

The Kh-59ME has an external turbofan engine below the body just forward of the rear wings, but retains the powder-fuel accelerator. It also has a dual guidance system consisting of an inertial guidance system to guide it into the target area and a television system to guide it to the target itself.

Target coordinates are fed into the missile before launch, and the initial flight phase is conducted under inertial guidance. At a distance of 10 km from the target the television guidance system is activated. An operator aboard the aircraft visually identifies the target and locks the missile onto it.

Kh-59MK - 285 km-range anti-shipping variant with turbofan engine and ARGS-59 active radar seeker.
Kh-59MK2 - Land attack variant of Kh-59MK (fire-and-forget).

Does the Navy operate this weapon?
If yes,can you please provide me some links.

 

[GR!FF!N]

self deleted

 

[MiG-21]

Wrong, the parts for the 40 were produced in Russia and added to HALs production line! That doubles the available parts for HALs, since they get them from Russian and Indian suppliers at the same time, but the problem seems to be, that they wasn't able to increase the production rate further to produce more than the 140 fighters till 2015, as they planned in 2006.

So as confirmed now, HAL has produced more than 100 fighters so far, but won't meet the timeline for all 180 till 2015, because they have to produce more than initially contracted now.

First I provided a link, since that didn't get to your head, I quoted from it for your lazy a$$ to read, and even after that you keep coming back with the same shyt over and over again. Can't you read properly?

"Government
The contract envisaged delivery of the 40 aircraft `M' in three phases. The activities
assigned to HAL in each phase were as under:

SI. No. PHASE NUMBER OF
AIRCRAFT
PARTICULARS
1. Phase 1+ 20 Technical Kit already
flight-tested in
Russia would be
assembled by a
Russian team (at
HAL), flight tested
by a Russian pilot
and handed over to
HAL.
2. Phase 1 16 Technical kit would
be supplied to HAL,
assembled by HAL
and painted would be
carried out by HAL.
3. Phase 2 04 Aircraft assembly,
system checks,
fitment of engines,
aircraft alignment,
ground and flight
checks and painting
would be carried out
by HAL.
As can be seen, excepting for four, HAL would not have a major role to play in the
manufacture of these aircraft. Further, HAL had already obtained the benefit of ToT in
terms of the Licensed Production of 140 aircraft `M' and was operating under maximum
capacity utilisation. Thus, it would appear that involvement of HAL was only to obtain `Bu
(Indian)' classification for the project. Had these aircraft been procured directly from the OEM
over-head charges and profit to the extent of Rs 60.48 crore payable under the schedule o
payment with HAL could have been avoided."

All the bolded part was taken from CAG, not my words. Russia fully provided knockdown kits to HAL as can be seen above. Only for the 4 aircraft out of the 40 did HAL assemble from scratch, but even then the components are fully sourced from Russia, which means these 40 aircrafts have no indiginous content in it. HAL has only manufactured/assembled around 60-70 fighters till date(even including the 4 which actually shouldn't be included) out of the order of 140 jets, that too with indigenous content far less than it was supposed to have, along with cost over runs. There is a pending delivery for 80-70 Su-30MKIs. Fat chance of them getting delivered by 2015.

LOL are you distracting because you were proven wrong at Zhuk AE s weight, the 3m2 target and the fact that the Mig don't have RCS advantages contrary to what you believed? And since you were since you were too lazy to look up the real specs, here is the specboard from Aero India 2011 (zoom in):

Zhuk AE – 688mm diameter – 275Kg weight – 160Km range – for a 3m2 target
Which means, Zhuk AE with 200Km range for a 3m2 target => more than 700mm diameter => more than 300Kg => 100+Kg more compared to Mig 29K with Zhuk ME and that were the actual reason for the discussion. More weight for the Mig 35, which leaves it with a similar emptyweight as Mig 29K.

YOU IMBECILE!! WHERE ON EARTH DID YOUR SOURCE SAY 148KM? WHY THE HELL ARE YOU IGNORING THE SOURCES I POSTED? ARE YOU DERANGED? HUH?
Ok Fine FINE!!! lets have it your way. Where is your source? My source clearly says an increase to 200km from 148km, not 130km, which under a simple calculation proves that 148km is for 5m2 while 130km is for 3m2(hence 160km for 3m2 becomes 185km for 5m2, close to 200km). Where is your source which says the Russians' promised 200km is for 3m2? I need it straight from the horses mouth. I want Phazotron to say that we promise 200km for 3m2, just like my source did which quoted the Phazotron company director for the figures I posted. Or provide an official brochure from Phazotron. I don't need third party words or opinions. For 2 pages you have been rambling on without providing a single source. WHERE IS YOUR FUCKIN SOURCE?

And what do you mean I was proven wrong? Weight of the AESA for 130km variant was indeed 220kgs, which was what i was referring to when comparing AE and ME initially. And the fuel tank nonsense... you think a fighter carries fuel tanks for all types of missions? What about CAP, most types of Escorts, Scramble and Frontline Close Support missions? All this is moot anyway because Super Su-30MKI is not a Medium weight fighter in the first place costing near twice as much as a MiG-35.

 

[MilSpec]

First of all, only because it could integrate other weapons in theory, it doesn't mean they would be on offer for the Mig, nor that we would pay for the integration, so please stop these useless speculation about weapons the Mig never will have and stick to those that are really available for it.
Secondly even with the same weapons the Mig would be inferior, because of higher RCS, less engine performance, no SC, less numbers of hardpoints, less payload..., not the weapons are the issue, but the fact that it's an outdated design!

Discussion is futile, as you have no clue or understanding of how things work in IAF. please read my post again. MkI has larger rcs than mig 35, rafale empty weight is 9500kg, max take off weight is 22200Kgs, twr 1.10 compared to mig 35, emptyu weight 11000 kgs and take off weight of 29500 kgs, tvr 1.14, hence mig 35 has higher payload capability than rafale.
where are you getting your engine performance data from needs to be seen. Any ways in todays scenario every one from MBDA, Vympel to rafael are willing to sell, I dont see why the needed armament wont be available to Migs if needed. If TU 142's can have Biritsh aerospace made sea hawks, I don't see why mig 35's can't have SCALP.

Oh please, we pay more that $45 millions for our Mig 29Ks, without AESA, TVC..., not to forget the additional costs for western avionics, since the Russians are not good enough.

Mig 29K is carrier based aircraft different landing gear units, and an aircraft tailor made to navy specs, if you do not understand the difference, i cant help you there.

Which doesn't really makes sense, since MKI is IAFs prime air superiority fighter and will remain the same till FGFA arrives. So IAF would let MKI escort strike packages and not the less capable Mig, only because that is the only role where it has any capabilities.

MKI is india's prime strike fighter , not air superiority fighter, Plz learn the difference. Mig 29 has always been an air superiority fighter, period. Doesn't matter what you want to speculate, I have been in the industry for enough years know what flies where. thanks

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

the best fighter PAF can get

affordable+effective

No, Operational cost of Mig35 is very high.
We Should go for J2X with single engine between 2015-2018.
Better to develop Jf17 BlockII and III till 2015-2016.
Instead mig35,
Su35 is better multirole fighter. But cost b/w (45 million and $65 million).

 

[Devianz]

Does the Navy operate this weapon?
If yes,can you please provide me some links.

Don't know about navy. IAF uses it, not sure which version.

 

[tvsram1992]

the best fighter PAF can get

affordable+effective

But who is going to sell you ?
Neither China has plans to clone Mig35 (kidding)

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Don't know about navy. IAF uses it, not sure which version.

IAF Uses the MK2 and the AShM variant on the Su 30 MKI.
Would have been nice to see em' on the IN MiG 29K's though.

 

[Hello_10]

Oh please, we pay more that $45 millions for our Mig 29Ks, without AESA, TVC..., not to forget the additional costs for western avionics, since the Russians are not good enough.

Oh tell please tell me how many Rafale and EFT Typhoon are being flown with AESA radar and TVC right now, your two shortlisted for M-MRCA? "none" as the EFT Typhoon is expected to have AESA by 2015/16 and the current batch of Rafale being supplied do have AESA radars, the very first bacth of Rafale with AESA radar, but they are considered 'weak'. even India has demanded for a more powerful AESA radar for its 'would be' Rafale........

Oh please tell me how many combat aircrafts on the Indian border have AESA radar and TVC? whether the Pakistan's top gun F16 block52 or Chinese top gun J10s, 'none' have either AESA or TVC while these are the main threats to India right now and Mig29k is 'fit' in comparison with F16 block52, the best aircraft on Indian border.................

Oh please dont say that you 'will' get Rafale with a powerful AESA radar with many other 'upgrades' by paying over $110mil each which would be delivered from 2015/16, if no later. and as Rafale is a new one, it will take at least 2-3 years for the pilots to master this aircrafts even if they have similarities with Mirage2000. this way you may not expect your pilot to fly these Rafale to border areas till 2018/19, if no later than this. and this Mig29k are currently being supplied and indian pilot have full experience on them and can fly the new ones staright on the border areas, with full infrastructure of it in India itself..............

Oh please dont mind but we are equally worried for next 6-7 years time, until production line of Rafale or PAK FA may start. we want at least 200 new 4.5 gen aircrafts in India, (SU30mki + Mig29k), by next 5-6 years until production line of Rafale, LCA mach2 may start from 2015/16, hopefully

 

[Hello_10]

Nevertheless with delays in LCA mk2, and dropping numbers of IAF sqdn strength , 100 mig 35 can be an excellent shot in the arm.

India is supposed to buy at least 50 Mig35, if they havn't already signed the deal yet. a delay of 1-2 years in Rafale is very likely as IAF is less willing to pay $15bil for 126 Rafale of F3 type. IAF would wait for at least 3-4 years when france will have done its proposed upgrades including a powerful AESA radar with making it more stealthy. IAF would negotiate for at least a 'Rafale F4' type for their M-MRCA deal which would itself take another 3-4 years and then first batch of Rafale would be straight delivered from france sometimes after 4-5 years and home production starting from 2016, if no later than that.

Mig35 is the most advanced version of Mig29s, offered with a powerful AESA radar, TVC, and much improved multi role capabilities for this primarily an air superiority aircraft, which would come for just $60mil with fully loaded with missiles and other weaponries also, with already full infrastructure in India itself. Indian pilots already have training on Mig29s and they may fly Mig35s to straight border areas within few months of training. 50+ Mig35 may fulfill the gap of because of delay of Rafale supply, the Rafale which won't be in operation till 2018/19 as first pilots will need full training on them also

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

MKI is india's prime strike fighter , not air superiority fighter, Plz learn the difference. Mig 29 has always been an air superiority fighter, period.

Lol then why Mirage 2000s were used as strike fighters while SU 30 MKIs were uswd as escorts?