Unsure of China's motives, but 1962 repeat not possible: VK Singh

[ChinaRocks]

China attacked us in 1962 because our military was virtually nonexistent, and we didn't use the little troops we had effectively.

If India is still as weak as it was in 1962, why the hell haven't the Chinese attacked yet??

You are incredibley naive country dont attack another country out of the blue just becouse they are small or weak...just give us a few good excuses and i m sure china will attack india like hell is that what u looking for ?

 

[captonjohn]

BUT it does matter that people in India know the truth. It still boggles the mind, how the majority of Indians believe Nehru's lies (and proudly proclaims it as fact). This set of misinformed belief what is holding up the negotiations of disputed territories.

When everyone in India believes that China was the aggressor and "back stabber"in 1962, no Indian politician will have enough political capital to start negotiations without being shouted down at home. and so... the dispute sits, there to fester and threaten peace.

China is not an aggressor because you've such policy and to start a war or attack on someone is not an aggression in your view BUT an attack remains attack.

An aggression remains aggression. I've also researched about 1962 Sino-India war and concluded that China was already planning for such attack to teach India a lesson. Of course Nehru had an look east policy but that doesn't meant that India is going to attack on China. If you were unsecured at that time just by Indian look east policy then you can think how much india concern about your military build up along indian border and encirclement of India.

In your foreign policy it is clearly stated that you can attack first for your benefit and won't give an advantageous chance to enemy to attack on you. That's why you think you were not an aggressor BUT you were aggressor. This was an pre-planned attack intended to provoke India, shock India and grab some land from it and go back to your land. That's why China declared ceasefire before US aircraft carrier come to help India. You were just an invader, an pirate and still you are same.

Think if India has same policy then India must attack on you when India realized that you are encircling India and started huge military build up?

 

[CardSharp]

China is not an aggressor because you've such policy and to start a war or attack on someone is not an aggression in your view BUT an attack remains attack.

An aggression remains aggression. I've also researched about 1962 Sino-India war and concluded that China was already planning for such attack to teach India a lesson. Of course Nehru had an look east policy but that doesn't meant that India is going to attack on China. If you were unsecured at that time just by Indian look east policy then you can think how much india concern about your military build up along indian border and encirclement of India.

In your foreign policy it is clearly stated that you can attack first for your benefit and won't give an advantageous chance to enemy to attack on you. That's why you think you were not an aggressor BUT you were aggressor. This was an pre-planned attack intended to provoke India, shock India and grab some land from it and go back to your land. That's why China declared ceasefire before US aircraft carrier come to help India. You were just an invader, an pirate and still you are same.

Think if India has same policy then India must attack on you when India realized that you are encircling India and started huge military build up?

Bull sh|t.

 

[ps80]

^^ I think your perception of Indian mindset regarding 1962 is not the only issue that is blocking any progress on the complex border disputes between India and China. I think that there is more to it. Good thing is that we are discussing these issues at the most highest level.

Premier Wen Jiabao is going to India. I am sure there will be a discussion on these issues.

 

[captonjohn]

The situation now is same as in 1962. Our nuke deterrent is just on paper. It is not credible deterrent. Our tiny 20 kt nukes are not going to threaten anyone, while chinese are sitting on 2000 kt nukes. Most of the tanks are night blind. Have not bought any artillery for more than 2 decades. Most of the air-defence systems are from old vintage soviet era. Our tiny inventory of missiles can't even hit the center of china. Infrastructure is pathetic. Our idiot army chiefs are dreaming about fighting on 2 fronts, while we can't even successfully defend on one front. It is a Shameful state of affairs.

Cool down sraja,

Situation is not same like 1962. There are several reasons below:
1. first nuclear weapon is still a weapon only to show and not to use in military terms. This weapon is a last option and can't be used earlier.

2. Indian nuke deterrence is designed on intention to target military saturated areas so when war breaks out between Indo-china then maximum military saturation would be near Indo-china border and indian weapons can easily kill lacs of chinese army.
This is the difference between both countries nuclear plan that China has made nukes to kill civilian population and India has developed nukes to respond and to kill military force concentrations to win war.

3. If China use nukes then india has technology to kill incoming missile before hitting the ground that is similar to US patriot ABM system. Also India is acquiring us Patriot system for more defense.

4. Now regarding artillery you are true but it can't help with china as it would be more mobilized war would be fought on largest front hence tanks and air units would play vital role here. Chinese army still has more than 60% tanks older same as Indian T-55, Vijayanta and T-72. Only a small portion has modernized and hence force would be challenged only in numbers.

Of course initial aggression from china can have great momentum and would be difficult to hold but china can't sustain it's momentum of attack and may lose it's strength on one front so if India can hold and fight for long China can't win that's why china is preparing Pak to fight with india.

Also an army with war experience has great advantage and india has 3 wars experience as compared to no true war experience with PLA.

I think you understood.

 

[Surrender2me]

China is not an aggressor because you've such policy and to start a war or attack on someone is not an aggression in your view BUT an attack remains attack.

An aggression remains aggression. I've also researched about 1962 Sino-India war and concluded that China was already planning for such attack to teach India a lesson. Of course Nehru had an look east policy but that doesn't meant that India is going to attack on China. If you were unsecured at that time just by Indian look east policy then you can think how much india concern about your military build up along indian border and encirclement of India.

In your foreign policy it is clearly stated that you can attack first for your benefit and won't give an advantageous chance to enemy to attack on you. That's why you think you were not an aggressor BUT you were aggressor. This was an pre-planned attack intended to provoke India, shock India and grab some land from it and go back to your land. That's why China declared ceasefire before US aircraft carrier come to help India. You were just an invader, an pirate and still you are same.

Think if India has same policy then India must attack on you when India realized that you are encircling India and started huge military build up?

It's complete Sense..
Only people who can't Understand truth,think it's bs

 

[GodlessBastard]

You are incredibley naive country dont attack another country out of the blue just becouse they are small or weak...

Tibet in 1951.
India in 1962.
Vietnam in 1979.

I could give more examples but that would be a waste of my time.
You and the other Pakistani ambassador in China (Peaceful) are a joke

just give us a few good excuses and i m sure china will attack india like hell is that what u looking for ?

According to the CCP, Arunachal Pradesh is full of 1 million oppressed civilians who are just waiting for the brave PLA to come and liberate them from the evil New Delhi regime.

Well, if India is as weak as you and the other Chinese-wannabe troll say, I will repeat my question, why the hell hasn't the PLA come and liberated the poor Arunachalis yet???.

The Indian Army is just a joke, so come and get us already

 

[CardSharp]

Tibet in 1951.
India in 1962.
Vietnam in 1979.

I could give more examples but that would be a waste of my time.
You and the other Pakistani ambassador in China (Peaceful) are a joke



According to the CCP, Arunachal Pradesh is full of 1 million oppressed civilians who are just waiting for the brave PLA to come and liberate them from the evil New Delhi regime.

Well, if India is as weak as you and the other Chinese-wannabe troll say, I will repeat my question, why the hell hasn't the PLA come and liberated the poor Arunachalis yet???.

The Indian Army is just a joke, so come and get us already

Well here's me saying you don't know what you're talking about. It's just incredible. People who haven't picked up a book or read an academic account on any of those wars think they have the full picture because they read about it on wikipedia or read an article from some rag of a newspaper.

 

[below_freezing]

VK Singh is over-confident. Our army is in pathetic shape. Most of the tanks are night-blind. Lack of artillery, lack of missile inventory, lack of air-defense systems, poor infrastructure. How are they going to stop a determined chinese invasion ? These kind of fancy statements may fool general mass. But, ground reality is different. To make it worst, every year army is returning billion of dollars money which has been allocated for modernization as unspent to the government. They don't even know how to use the money to modernize the army. And, They have big mouth to fight the war on 2 fronts. These idiot army chiefs sitting in A/C rooms, benz cars, make stupid statements and making enemies out of nowhere, but the poor soldiers are paying the price on the front.

we have problems with corruption everywhere. unfortunately for india, there seems to be a lack of a responsibility mechanism to punish the corrupt. the only thing i can say is, india is not the same as china in 1962. it is the same as china in 1937. a weak, nominally democratic government held together by force, with atrocities occuring not by foreign forces but by the people against each other. there is no equivalent of "Japan" in south asia, so india is safe from invasion. but be warned that the current GoI may suffer a similar fate as the KMT.

 

[applesauce]

China is not an aggressor because you've such policy and to start a war or attack on someone is not an aggression in your view BUT an attack remains attack.

An aggression remains aggression. I've also researched about 1962 Sino-India war and concluded that China was already planning for such attack to teach India a lesson. Of course Nehru had an look east policy but that doesn't meant that India is going to attack on China. If you were unsecured at that time just by Indian look east policy then you can think how much india concern about your military build up along indian border and encirclement of India.

In your foreign policy it is clearly stated that you can attack first for your benefit and won't give an advantageous chance to enemy to attack on you. That's why you think you were not an aggressor BUT you were aggressor. This was an pre-planned attack intended to provoke India, shock India and grab some land from it and go back to your land. That's why China declared ceasefire before US aircraft carrier come to help India. You were just an invader, an pirate and still you are same.

Think if India has same policy then India must attack on you when India realized that you are encircling India and started huge military build up?

you want absolute terms then?
okay
prior to the Chinese preemptive attack,
INDIA had already invaded china
INDIA had men/posts passed the disputed area INSIDE UNDISPUTED CHINESE TERRITORY

so china responded to an attack on Chinese territory by the aggressive Indians who not only wanted to claim all of the disputed areas but also had the balls to invaded china and take territories stated by their own government to be unquestionably Chinese.

 

[GodlessBastard]

Well here's me saying you don't know what you're talking about. It's just incredible. People who haven't picked up a book or read an academic account on any of those wars think they have the full picture because they read about it on wikipedia or read an article from some rag of a newspaper.

I've read far more history books than most people would ever bother to read.

And by history books I don't mean CCP propaganda or bullshit Nehruvian rhetoric.

The problem with the Sino-Indian War is that the Indian government hasn't revealed their official war documents yet, so we have no choice but to follow the CCP version of events, plus the few sketchy details that foreign journalists have been able to discern.

But since you seem to know so much about the Sino-Indian War why don't you enlighten me on what the hell exactly happened, and while you're at it tell me why the PLA hasn't liberated Arunachal Pradesh since 1962, since according to some "Chinese" members here the Indian military is a joke and is incapable of defending from China.

 

[CardSharp]

I've read far more history books than most people would ever bother to read.

And by history books I don't mean CCP propaganda or bullshit Nehruvian rhetoric.

The problem with the Sino-Indian War is that the Indian government hasn't revealed their official war documents yet, so we have no choice but to follow the CCP version of events, plus the few sketchy details that foreign journalists have been able to discern.

But since you seem to know so much about the Sino-Indian War why don't you enlighten me on what the hell exactly happened, and while you're at it tell me why the PLA hasn't liberated Arunachal Pradesh since 1962, since according to some "Chinese" members here the Indian military is a joke and is incapable of defending from China.

Two things are just patently untrue.

1) that you assume I have read or believe CCP propaganda
2) Indians have no choice but to believe the CCP version of things.

I'll ignore your glib tone and refer you to these 3 threads in which I and many many others have put in hours of research and discussion.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/65762-all-indian-members-here-question.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...cious-action-pla-lessons-sino-indian-war.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/70932-1962-anyone-who-havent-read.html

All sources cited are in English and not of Chinese origin (though there are several Indian officer memoirs from 1962 in "concentrating force" thread.)

 

[DesiGuy]

poor India.

there is Pakistan who says it was India who invaded first in all the previous wars and now it's china who says it was india who invaded first.


India really had that guts? um...i doubt so.

 

[CardSharp]

poor India.

there is Pakistan who says it was India who invaded first in all the previous wars and now it's china who says it was india who invaded first.


India really had that guts? um...i doubt so.

Guts has nothing to do with it. It is a simple matter of establishing a timeline for 1962 and being brutally honest.

 

[DesiGuy]

The problem in history is that nobody believe history of other side.