UNSC permanent seat for India

[IsaacNewton]

I can see maybe maybe a system where non permanent members get a longer stay, like 10 years, where each year, a new member enters, or fight for a reelection. That way, non permanent members wont feel cheated, and if you are influential enough, you can stay as on the council indefinitely.

 

[Hyperion]

I never said India will not grow to that level......... development of India and China is unstoppable......... however, none of the present permanent members will ever allow an expansion....... for one or the other reason, none of them would wish to let go of the exclusivity of being a permanent member........... besides, for me personally, UNSC / UN in itself is the most impotent of all organization, bar sanctioning some shitty countries without enough firepower...........

Yes there are chances of that..... and the 5 permanent members not allowing for an expansion..... But 20 or 30 years down the line there will be other nations (let us assume that india will never grow to that potential as you sound here) which is much powerful than few of those 5 members, There will be countries which might represent higher population, and all this will reduce the significance of UNSC..... If no expansion, then the UNSC will become a dummy body with 5 nations vetoing each other

 

[nair]

I never said India will not grow to that level......... development of India and China is unstoppable......... however, none of the present permanent members will ever allow an expansion....... for one or the other reason, none of them would wish to let go of the exclusivity of being a permanent member........... besides, for me personally, UNSC / UN in itself is the most impotent of all organization, bar sanctioning some shitty countries without enough firepower...........

If they do not expand, slowly there will be organisations (for ex g4, or Brics - I am naming them as an example) becoming more powerful and slowly that will reduce the significance of UNSC, and slowly people will stop bothering or take UNSC seriously......

 

[notsuperstitious]

Sorry to burst this bubble and let me be blunt here...... it isn't happening........... not in our lifetimes at least!

I'm not holding my breath, but the rate at which india's international standing has improved over the last 15 years, if it continues at the same compounded pace over the next 15, its a guarantee.

It won't be easy, as everybody would want their piece of the cake, but my opinion is it would happen.

 

[Hyperion]

That is exactly what is happening right now as we debate here......... UNSC is nothing more than a historical hangover, let's move beyond it............ whatever comes next, can be headquartered-in, wherever the center of economic activity tilts and has considerable land mass and human resources to project power and it's interests, therefore we can automatically strike-off France and the UK from the Security Council of the New World............... it's as simple as that..................

If they do not expand, slowly there will be organisations (for ex g4, or Brics - I am naming them as an example) becoming more powerful and slowly that will reduce the significance of UNSC, and slowly people will stop bothering or take UNSC seriously......

 

[Hyperion]

Problem was never your progress, those 'performance' indicators are for layman, or the ones who think 1+1 = 2......... UNSC is, was and always shall-be the "bad" boys club......... India sincerely needs to ask itself, is she ready to play with the bad boys, does she have the moral-courage to wrong a right (do the nasty and still be able to live with it)? Because essentially thats what UNSC has become, it's no more just...... it's just a bunch of bullies, legitimizing all their evils with a charter that was written half a century ago............

If I were a nation, who had truly grown up, I'd rather form a new organization, with like-minded countries who suffered immeasurable growing-pains at the hands of the big five............ maybe, just maybe even sleep with one or two of the enemies for pragmatic reasons (China & USA).................

I'm not holding my breath, but the rate at which india's international standing has improved over the last 15 years, if it continues at the same compounded pace over the next 15, its a guarantee.

It won't be easy, as everybody would want their piece of the cake, but my opinion is it would happen.

 

[nair]

Problem was never your progress, those 'performance' indicators are for layman, or the ones who think 1+1 = 2......... UNSC is, was and always shall-be the "bad" boys club......... India sincerely needs to ask itself, is she ready to play with the bad boys, does it have the moral-courage to wrong a right (do the nasty and still be able to live with it)? Because essentially thats what UNSC has become, it's no more just...... it's just a bunch of bullies, legitimizing all their evils with a charter that was written half a century ago............

If I were a nation, who had truly grown up, I'd rather form a new organization, with like-minded countries who suffered immeasurable growing-pains at the hands of the big five............ maybe, just maybe even sleep with one or two of the enemies for pragmatic reasons (China & USA).................

That is another point, Our foreign policy is not matured to assume such responsibility..... Most of the time we do not take a stand because both the parties in dispute are friendly towards you.....This is possible when you are either not a member or you are holding a temporary one...... The day when you become a permanent member, you need to take a stand, which you cannot......

 

[kadamba-warrior]

UK and France are still the #6 and $5 economies respectively, larger than that of India, and higher per capita GDP than #3 economy, Japan.

They command huge political influence compared to larger economies such as Japan due to their influence over commonwealth, former colonies, European Union, and international organizations such as Olympics (founding counties), UN (founding nations), IMF, World Bank, ect.

They also process huge soft power due to their rich history, and their prominent position as leaders of the western civilization. France had 83 million visitors, the largest of any country compared to 6.8 million for India. Developing countries look up to France and UK because of their development aid offer, top ranked universities, high quality of life, ect.

In the military sphere, they are both nuclear powers with a blue water navy (albeit smaller than it should be). They have the 5th and 6th largest military expenditure in the world (USA 600, China 122, Russia 68, Saudi 60, UK 57, France 52, Japan 51, Germany 44, India 36), and part of the most powerful military alliance in the world.

UK and France are still certified major powers, a position that many would argue India has yet arrive (India is considered a middle power). The only way for them to lose their major power status is if they become too much of a dog of the USA in the future, and lack any legitimate independent domestic and foreign policy.

Hey Newton, I know UK and France are bigger economies than India right now. They also wield much more power. But going forward 10-20 years from now, it is going to change a lot if the current trends are any indications to go by. That's why I spoke of a time-line of 10-20 years.

Also, if the size of the economy was any barometer, Japan and Germany should have been in the UNSC rather than UK and France!

 

[idune]

India does not deserve to be even in SAARC, let alone UNSC.

1) india is ruled by hindu fundamentalists who has solid record of communalism and committing genocide.
2) india as a country is not economically influential.
3) 1/3 of global abject poor still live in india.
4) Indian political and business credibility, in its own neighborhood, is ZERO.
5) Governance and institutions in india are corrupt and dysfunctional.
6) india aggression against neighbors and occupying smaller countries, goes against UN charter.
7) indian oppression against minority and people seeking end of indian occupation are fascist and brutal.
.................

 

[indoPunjabi]

India does not deserve to be even in SAARC, let alone UNSC.

1) india is ruled by hindu fundamentalists who has solid record of communalism and committing genocide.
2) india as a country is not economically influential.
3) 1/3 of global abject poor still live in india.
4) Indian political and business credibility, in its own neighborhood, is ZERO.
5) Governance and institutions in india are corrupt and dysfunctional.
6) india aggression against neighbors and occupying smaller countries, goes against UN charter.
7) indian oppression against minority and people seeking end of indian occupation are fascist and brutal.
.................

 

[Hypersonicmissiles]

What has India done to deserve any seat at the UNSC? Their entire country is an abject failure with half the population starving to death and defecation all over the place.

 

[Speeder 2]

UNSC is the most efficient organisation in the world.

It’s because UNSC has done, and keeps doing, exactly what it supposes to do all along after WWII .

UNSC is NOT the place where you can cry foes or exercise the luxary of democracy -- the proof of that, 1 veto and the end of story, oke?

Instead, UNSC is the place for the 5 big boys to keep statue quo and safeguard their own world-order.

In fact I can’t imagine there is another world body as efficient as and as excellent as UNSC is.

Anyone who doubts above should have his/her brain checked.


***

UNSC is the most significant power structure set up by the top 5 winning ally powers of the WWII in order to GOVEN the post WWII era global affair.

They were US, Britain, Republic of China (today’s Taiwan), France and Russia.

They were the original 5 signatures accepting the unconditional surrender of Germany and Japan in any post-war declarations and treaties.

In other words, these 5 countries were the original winners of the world so that they have created this post-WWII era to their own imagines. They have been the bosses of the UN which they founded themselves.

PRC took the founding father seat of Republic of China in the 1970s after she was recognised by the UN.

They earned their power by means of WWII. They earned it by sheer force, leadership, and countless deaths of their forebears as a price.

In all fairness any country who tries to claim today that it can join UNSC to enjoy the same power of these 5 must earn it.

No begging that “Oh please, let me in and be the owner, too” is allowed.

It is just as simple as like no begging that "Oh please, let me into the board of Boeing or Bank of China and be the owner, too, just like you guys" is allowed.

It is laughable if you do that.


Yes, the UNSC power is not given, but earned, earned by blood.


***

Despite of all those sweet talks of supporting India this or that, by varies of the top 5 powers…

but are you kidding me?

There’re millions of reasons why you (e.g. India) has no qualification whatsoever to join the UNSC. For the minimum, these 5 countries are technologically the most advanced powers in the world today in both civilian tech and military tech, Germany and Japan aside.

A simple question is that are you sure you’re stronger than any of them? Or you’re just delusional?


More importantly, when you genius think you’re somehow “entitled” for this or that “reasons” to enter UNSC, fine, show the world how you can beat US, Britain, China, Russia and France in battlefields, for that’s where the power was originated in the first place.

If you win, you’re the new amo of the world, can join UNSC any time or even create your own.

If you can’t win, or dare not, excuse me but STFU for once!

Despite more often than not different opinions among these 5 powers, the UNSC has done a beautiful job – its single most important task actually -- to have prevented another world war in the last 70 years by keeping the statue quo.

 

[Imran Khan]

i think india will got a seat at UN



when all five seats will be empty and there will be no UNO

 

[Progressive1]

UN is symbol of "post WW2" geo politics world is bound to get out of it,its nearly 70 years now. Silent agreement among countries should be try not to create such a lopsided global democratic structure in future.

 

[shiv]

frankly it doesn't make a difference ! UN is toothless for all practical purposes !