United States sidelines India

[AVADI]

Hi
Well it has happened only once, so its irrelevant to apply "repetition of history" here. And don't you think Americans would have learned their lesson from all this, How come Pakistan is the looser Pakistan had a lot to gain from all this its the internal politics that Crippled Pakistan, Pakistan got f-16's in both these era's & other kind of material and financial assistance, actually it was because of Afghanistan that Pakistan was able to complete nuclear programme as USA kind of kept quiet on this matter as they needed Pakistan's support against Soviets, how come Pakistan is the looser unless u want to think this way to assuage your discomfort at these establishments

Hi
When i said Pakistan as looser what i meant was the number of terrorist that come from Afghanistan into Pakistan and wreck havoc in the tribal region.As per some comments from your fellow Pakistani posters here the bill on WOT has gone to billions of $'s so Pakistan again lost some of the resources.Do you think some 50 odd F16's and some $'s are ok for the sufferings faced by Pakistan because of US and its policies.

 

[Old School]

We need to have a better understanding of the Indian foreign policy before jumping into any conclusion. Indian foreign policy does not have specific pro US /pro china doctrine like we have in Pakistan. Moreover, India is not dependant on foreign aids for the fiscal deficits. The economy there is diversified and it has a huge domestic capital market unlike ours in Pakistan.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

I do not know if you are illiterate or just ignorant, this is an Indian person writing the article for an Indian newspaper. The writer will write what he/she wants to, its not my article and neither did I contribute to it.

right !! an illiterate engineer

everytime its a thread By a Pakistani member showing something incorrect about India..I tend to question the TS without seeing the source....
BTW..nothing wrong in what I said..even if its an Indian article...the picture is not what is being shown in this article.

 

[T-Faz]

right !! an illiterate engineer

everytime its a thread By a Pakistani member showing something incorrect about India..I tend to question the TS without seeing the source....
BTW..nothing wrong in what I said..even if its an Indian article...the picture is not what is being shown in this article.

You should be aware of the level of 'expertise' indian media has and what kind of tripe they continue to write for viewership. But of course if it is anti-Pakistani, then its like the Bible and you follow it to the tee.

However if it is criticism or rebuke of any kind against India then of course you point out the inaccuracies or lack of depth. Well whatever makes you feel happy.

But seems like you are lost, so speak to you later.

 

[Peregrine]

Hi
When i said Pakistan as looser what i meant was the number of terrorist that come from Afghanistan into Pakistan and wreck havoc in the tribal region.As per some comments from your fellow Pakistani posters here the bill on WOT has gone to billions of $'s so Pakistan again lost some of the resources.Do you think some 50 odd F16's and some $'s are ok for the sufferings faced by Pakistan because of US and its policies.

Hi
Well there is a price tag for every thing, Still its Pakistan's own domestic issues that aggravated the situation, Taliban didn't ask Pakistani government not to raise the plight of people living in tribal areas. Similarly Americans are not responsible for keeping those areas backward, when people will be deprived of basic needs and then if you will try to suppress them, then they will rebel or retaliate. Pakistan has been given modest aid over these years by the Americans, its the successive Pakistani governments who made this mess, offourse Americans should have helped Pakistan more, The West still hasn't changed its attitude towards Pakistani's and Pakistanis are paying a heavy price because of this war on terror, but its mostly because of inefficient Pakistani governments.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

You should be aware of the level of 'expertise' indian media has and what kind of tripe they continue to write for viewership. But of course if it is anti-Pakistani, then its like the Bible and you follow it to the tee. .

If its anti Pakistani, we discuss it here just the way you did it when the article seemed quite pleasing to you.

However if it is criticism or rebuke of any kind against India then of course you point out the inaccuracies or lack of depth. Well whatever makes you feel happy .

Of course !! if some incorrect news (wether Indian or Pakistani) shows India in bad colours,I take pride in pointing out the inaccuracies..whats wrong in it??

But seems like you are lost, so speak to you later.

you saved me... thanks.

 

[ramu]

Even if we all subscribe to the view that US is side-lining India say in Afghan for whatever reason, India is playing its cards well and should do what is does best. A foreign policy that is based on our goals and our view of the immediate neighbourhood and Afghanistan.

Indian influence in Afghanistan is no US delivered. If Afghanistan wants good relations with India and it is bilateral, it is unlikely that India can be sidelined. Who would not like development in their own country ? Indian role is multilateral and has various levels to it. From development to military training. Afghanistan is in need of enormous training effort and India is contributing effectively.

India has never deposited its eggs with US and will never do the same. Indian objective of nuclear deal with the US has opened doors to technology with France, Russia and many other players. As long as the goals of India in Afghanistan converge with the ambitions of the locals, India is relevant in Afghanistan.

India is making a new beginning with Iran for example on the energy front. It opposed imposing sanctions. Its renewed importance in the BRIC nations is something the developed countries are sitting up and taking notice.

So just because an author gets anxious of what is happening to Indo-US relations should not upset the elephant.

 

[Peregrine]

Even if we all subscribe to the view that US is side-lining India say in Afghan for whatever reason, India is playing its cards well and should do what is does best. A foreign policy that is based on our goals and our view of the immediate neighbourhood and Afghanistan.

Indian influence in Afghanistan is no US delivered. If Afghanistan wants good relations with India and it is bilateral, it is unlikely that India can be sidelined. Who would not like development in their own country ? Indian role is multilateral and has various levels to it. From development to military training. Afghanistan is in need of enormous training effort and India is contributing effectively.

India has never deposited its eggs with US and will never do the same. Indian objective of nuclear deal with the US has opened doors to technology with France, Russia and many other players. As long as the goals of India in Afghanistan converge with the ambitions of the locals, India is relevant in Afghanistan.

India is making a new beginning with Iran for example on the energy front. It opposed imposing sanctions. Its renewed importance in the BRIC nations is something the developed countries are sitting up and taking notice.

So just because an author gets anxious of what is happening to Indo-US relations should not upset the elephant.

Hi
Okay well understood point that India doesn't invest in Afghanistan or make relations with Afghanistan at the behest of Americans, However would that be a place to be if Pakistan withdraws its support in WOT, and strikes a deal with taliban and then let them throw out Hamid Karzai's government or if last but not the least launches a proxy war in Afghanistan........? and your statement "India is playing her cards well", is little of out of context in this regard, as in Afghanistan scenario India has no cards to play, just to accept whatever comes her way, You can disagree but you cannot deny as that is why India was sidelined.

 

[ARCHON]

Hi
Okay well understood point that India doesn't invest in Afghanistan or make relations with Afghanistan at the behest of Americans, However would that be a place to be if Pakistan withdraws its support in WOT, and strikes a deal with taliban and then let them throw out Hamid Karzai's government or if last but not the least launches a proxy war in Afghanistan........? and your statement "India is playing her cards well", is little of out of context in this regard, as in Afghanistan scenario India has no cards to play, just to accept whatever comes her way, You can disagree but you cannot deny as that is why India was sidelined.

India is not just investing in Afghanistan , infact India invests all around the world. You get excited because your thoughts are limited to the region which include Afghanistan. Just like in Afghanistan we are also investing in various fields in Africa too.We are doing it because we can afford it.

 

[Usama86]

Unfortunately we never learn here in Pakistan, just keep on repeating the same old mistakes and hope against hope. We dont see how China or even India conducts itself on the international stage. I have no trust what so ever in our political leadership hence a potent forigen policy is impossible, Army is the only one working on it and lets face it guys no matter how much we love and support our Army they have not been trained to hold the forigen office of the country. The political leadership has not even been able to secure a civil nuclear deal while the Army is doing better in its procurments program. In Pakistan we had known for a very long time that the US will leave this area as the war is become unsustainable for them and Mr.Obama was elected by american people on his promises to end the war. Our elected leaders have done nothing about it so to expect pakistan to be in a strategic partnership with the US.... not on, on the other hand what we have with them is a very short term contract like that of a professional hit man.... we do the job and get paid no strings attached, where we are right now is the negotiations before accepting the contract.... NOT STRATEGIC by any streach of immagination. What hurts me is that we could have had a strategic relation with US because for the past 50 years we have been important to them for different reasons but our impotent political leaders allowed them to use us while not asking for enough in reply, all we ever got was F-16s and other millitary aid, the economic aid was shared by politicians and powerful generals. India on the other hand can only loose out on an influence in Afghanistan because the US may be willing to sacrifice this much as a means of payment to Pakistan for doing the dirty work. Pakistan has been hurt a lot by the Indian support of insurgency through Afghanistan, obviously India is repaying us for our support in Kashmire uprising. This is my opinion on the events and situations in our part of the world. India has very strong defence ties with Israil and Russia, trade ties with China and US, the only loss they might face is in Afghanistan and our only success will be to insure our safety and stability from a defence point of view.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

[

We need to have a better understanding of the Indian foreign policy before jumping into any conclusion. Indian foreign policy does not have specific pro US /pro china doctrine like we have in Pakistan. Moreover, India is not dependant on foreign aids for the fiscal deficits. The economy there is diversified and it has a huge domestic capital market unlike ours in Pakistan.

Quite rightly said; the overriding consideration is to consolidate economic strength- the rest will take care of itself (in simple terms).

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Even if we all subscribe to the view that US is side-lining India say in Afghan for whatever reason, India is playing its cards well and should do what is does best. A foreign policy that is based on our goals and our view of the immediate neighbourhood and Afghanistan.

Indian influence in Afghanistan is no US delivered. If Afghanistan wants good relations with India and it is bilateral, it is unlikely that India can be sidelined. Who would not like development in their own country ? Indian role is multilateral and has various levels to it. From development to military training. Afghanistan is in need of enormous training effort and India is contributing effectively.

India has never deposited its eggs with US and will never do the same. Indian objective of nuclear deal with the US has opened doors to technology with France, Russia and many other players. As long as the goals of India in Afghanistan converge with the ambitions of the locals, India is relevant in Afghanistan.

India is making a new beginning with Iran for example on the energy front. It opposed imposing sanctions. Its renewed importance in the BRIC nations is something the developed countries are sitting up and taking notice.

So just because an author gets anxious of what is happening to Indo-US relations should not upset the elephant.

Absolutely!
Afghanistan is hardly the epicenter of the world and India has a far bigger canvas to paint on- the whole world.
Economic strength is the order of the day, not military posturing.
Then the whole world is ready to line up outside your door!

 

[karan.1970]

I really dont understand the concept of being sidelined in Afghanistan. India is not looking for making Afghanistan a client state. Why would it?? All India wants in Afghanistan is a friendly govt that hampers the use of Afghan territories by insurgents that may eventually target India.

Ok.. Given that India's opinion was not taken in Turkey or London, and apart from some ego bruises, what was lost?? Nothing really. The day some jehadists crashed a few planes into some of the key landmarks in the US, they deprived Pakistan of the so called strategic deapth in Afghanistan. The dirt that was carefully hidden came tumbling out.. In my view, the biggest loser from 9/11 was Pakistan since the event changed the till then scattered vision of the world on terrorism into a laser sharp focus. And suddenly the policy of state sponsored insurgencies was no longer as permissable as before..Plus with scattered Taliban, India started mounting pressure on Pakistan from its western border..

Now whether India retains an upper hand in Afg or not, Pakistan will never get the same influence back in that country. By backing the oppressive Taliban for a decade, Pakistan has made itself to be one of the most hated countries by a common Afghan citizen. As long as that holds, India does not need to be even present in Afghanistan to have much stronger ties with the country. And more Pakistan tries to influence the country thru the malignant use of Taliban (because it really doesnt have the soft power of economy to exhert benign influence), the more hated it will become. Pakistan may get a few years here and there of increasing influence based of how power equations move in Afghanistan, but the days of treating Afghanistan as its back yard are long gone. Today Pakistan cant even assume that it doesnt need to guard that border and hence the real concept of strategic deapth, which was to have no need of splitting its forces between eastern and western border is no longer possible.. As the Afghan state grows stronger (which it will because USA will ensure that), the insecurity of Pakistan from that border will grow as well.. India doesnt even need to be in the equation for this to happen. Its like an avalanche .. Once started, it feeds itself... and thats what's happeneing on the western border of Pakistan.

 

[ramu]

Okay well understood point that India doesn't invest in Afghanistan or make relations with Afghanistan at the behest of Americans, However would that be a place to be if Pakistan withdraws its support in WOT, and strikes a deal with taliban and then let them throw out Hamid Karzai's government or if last but not the least launches a proxy war in Afghanistan........? and your statement "India is playing her cards well", is little of out of context in this regard, as in Afghanistan scenario India has no cards to play, just to accept whatever comes her way, You can disagree but you cannot deny as that is why India was sidelined.

Ifs and buts ... Do you want to comment on a hypothetical situation ?
India indeed is playing its cards well. Iran for example. Irrespective of US effort in Afghanistan, Iran will continue to increase its influence in Afghanistan and a Government in Iran sensitive to our issues is always a good thing to have.

Indian victory is clearly seen when Pakistan is putting everything at stake, even the relations with US just to get India out of the Afghanistan theatre. That my friend is surely Indian victory. Irrespective of the result I am completely at peace with my Government for playing the cards so well.

 

[Peregrine]

India is not just investing in Afghanistan , infact India invests all around the world. You get excited because your thoughts are limited to the region which include Afghanistan. Just like in Afghanistan we are also investing in various fields in Africa too.We are doing it because we can afford it.

Hi
I don't care where ever India invests, we were having discussions about Afghanistan only, so stick to that okay, no need to brag about something when its not even relevant im surprised you didn't bring LCA in discussion, the topic is about America sidelining India not about Indian investment in Africa and showing off about it