UN 'failed Sri Lanka civilians', says internal probe

[Sashan]

the best thing SL gov had done was to send Tamils back to India after independence from UK.
Just as Myanmar did!
But unluckily that havent done!

Choo - I do not have time for fanboys or trolls.

 

[Maleesh]

Choo - I do not have time for fanboys or trolls.

Is that you or part or every indian act like you!bugs

 

[Skyline]

The 13th amendment was drawn by SL to have provincial councils and the Rajiv accord was to have the North and East ruled as a single province on the ethnic lines. Whether it works or not is a different story but it was agreed upon by SL.

Mate - You can come up with the 19th amendment or whatever but the future will say whether SL continue to discriminate or not against the SL tamils.

As for Indians not getting actual 100% freedom, that is a B.S.(I grew up in India and now I am American - so I have two systems to compare with)

first get idea about ethnic groups in SL and percentage each of each districts.
What I think is no ever system is 100% perfect or last forever, systems should change towards to developed Sri Lanka but it should not based on ethnic or religion!

India has block level freedom, you're secure and enjoying all rights as long as you live in your block. If you go to next block you have to stay according to those rules. I do have Indian friends they have mention how they face difficulties in Tamilnadu state.
Indian system is unique one to India but as I said earlier no system is 100% perfect.

 

[Sashan]

first get idea about ethnic groups in SL and percentage each of each districts.
What I think is no ever system is 100% perfect so last forever, systems should change towards to developed Sri Lanka!

India has block level freedom, you're secure and enjoying all rights as long as you live in your block. If you go to next block you have to stay according to those rules. I do have Indian friends they have mention how they difficulties in Tamilnadu state.
Indian system is unique one to India but as I said earlier no system is 100% perfect.

That is true - no system is 100% but I wish for a better SL as I do not carry animosity for the people and it is in the best interest of South Asian countries, that SL becomes prosperous.

There are no different rules when one goes outside of a state in India but I would always suggest following the local culture. There are issues in Mumbai where people from UP and Bihar face difficulties due to them following certain practices of their own.


As for the people facing issues in Tamilnadu, it is more to do with the language barrier. Hindi does not work in Tamilnadu. It should be tamil for the most part and some english. The same is the case for tamilians - they have to learn hindi to survive outside or learn the local language(I picked up basic kannada to make my life comfortable when I was in Bangalore though there are significant tamil population)

Good night mate - always it is a sane discussion with you.

 

[HeinzG]

The 13th amendment was drawn by SL to have provincial councils and the Rajiv accord was to have the North and East ruled as a single province on the ethnic lines. Whether it works or not is a different story but it was agreed upon by SL.

Does that mean Sri Lanka has to carry the burden through the whole eternity? We had done a mistake by sighing 13th amendment and now it is time to reverse it.

 

[HeinzG]

13th amendment is the compensation to be made by SL - federal divulgence of powers should happen.

Sri Lanka cannot give federal type solution for Tamil issue because Tamils do not have historical homeland in Sri Lanka. If SL has given Tamils Federal powers, it indirectly imply that Tamils have a historical homeland in SL which can be used to create a separate state.

Mate - you can deny that and no one is going to force you considering the today's geopolitical situation where everyone has deserted the SL tamils. But the promise made/promise reneged by SL will be noted in history.

Promises are made and broken. That's how world works and that theory is applied to politics too.

P.S - A partition happened in 1947 on the basic disagreement of the division of powers between center and the provinces - that is the India Pakistan partiton.

The partition happened purely on religious grounds, not because of division of powers. This is the same story in Sri Lanka where Tamils are asking for separation based on Language.

If that can happen, with all the discriminations shown by SL govt since independence, it can't be trusted and the division of powers need to happen. period.

Tamils too are discriminated against Sinhalese since independence and tried to take part of SL by force and their political leaders are still hangs on to the same ideology. There fore SL cannot trust Tamils either. Division of powers should not be given to Tamils based on Provinces.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

yep, I have already added that. under #5

13th amendment means our governing system, it does not effect to one ethnic. it effects to all sri lankan citizens. One specific group of people cannot take the decision of Sri Lanka. Once again Im asking from you let me know what are the special rights Tamils got by 13th amendment??

i dont care what the 13th amendment will bring into SL... It was promised, and yet was cheaten....
I really want the congress to fall now... What the fcuk is dmk doing........

Sri Lanka cannot give federal type solution for Tamil issue because Tamils do not have historical homeland in Sri Lanka. If SL has given Tamils Federal powers, it indirectly imply that Tamils have a historical homeland in SL which can be used to create a separate state.



Promises are made and broken. That's how world works and that theory is applied to politics too.



The partition happened purely on religious grounds, not because of division of powers. This is the same story in Sri Lanka where Tamils are asking for separation based on Language.



Tamils too are discriminated against Sinhalese since independence and tried to take part of SL by force and their political leaders are still hangs on to the same ideology. There fore SL cannot Tamils either. Division of powers should not be given to Tamils based on Provinces.

What Sri Lankans are trying to imply here is Sinhalese are innocent and never did any atrocities on tamils.
They are embarrased by the fact they pushed tamils into terrorism by petty politics..

 

[HeinzG]

What Sri Lankans are trying to imply here is Sinhalese are innocent and never did any atrocities on tamils.
They are embarrased by the fact they pushed tamils into terrorism by petty politics..

Sinhalese have done atrocities yes. And most of these cases were brought to justice and culprits were punished. Sri Lanka has never denied those.

BTW it was not Sinhalese that pulled Tamils into terrorism it was Sri Lankan and Indian politicians.

 

[Skyline]

i dont care what the 13th amendment will bring into SL... It was promised, and yet was cheaten....
I really want the congress to fall now... What the fcuk is dmk doing........

Excuse me, This is Sri Lanka and we are the citizen of it, we are the people who create things or change things in our country!
Enjoy your stay in India as Indian citizen.

 

[Sashan]

Sri Lanka cannot give federal type solution for Tamil issue because Tamils do not have historical homeland in Sri Lanka. If SL has given Tamils Federal powers, it indirectly imply that Tamils have a historical homeland in SL which can be used to create a separate state.

We discussed at length the history of Sinhalese people and it was fascinating. I respect your views but at the sametime I am not convinced yet.

Having stated that, these Tamilians were there for more than 1000 years - A person need to stay in a country for atmost 10-15 years to get a citizenship and at that point, he enjoys equal rights as others. So I do not understand this BS that Tamilians' homeland is not SL. These people are born, raised in SL and ofcourse SL treats them that way. Even the estate tamilians were accepted as citizens in 2004 if I am not mistaken by SL government.

Promises are made and broken. That's how world works and that theory is applied to politics too.

This is not politics to make a promise and break it. This is a treaty signed between nations. Look at Pakistan - they signed the Simla agreement under pressure from India to treat all issues as bilateral ones. Have they reneged on the treaty? no.

The partition happened purely on religious grounds, not because of division of powers. This is the same story in Sri Lanka where Tamils are asking for separation based on Language.

The partition happened on religious grounds but the basic disagreement is due to division of powers - Read up what Jinnah wanted. Having stated that, India is divided into states based on languages. Have Indian central government lost anything? no. So your argument does not cut ice.

Tamils too are discriminated against Sinhalese since independence and tried to take part of SL by force and their political leaders are still hangs on to the same ideology. There fore SL cannot trust Tamils either. Division of powers should not be given to Tamils based on Provinces.

My biggest grouse. It was a non-violent movement till 1970s. India used LTTE and other militant groups which were fringe elements and made them a significant force in 1980s.
There was more than 30 years for you guys to solve the issue but there was consistent discrimination. So there no question of whether trusting the tamilians or not. Tamilians were at the receiving end but LTTE hijacked the whole cause.

The SL government agreed upon division of powers and you may go back as no one is there to fix things for SL tamilians. But history will state that SL reneged on the promise/treaty.

i dont care what the 13th amendment will bring into SL... It was promised, and yet was cheaten....
I really want the congress to fall now... What the fcuk is dmk doing........




What Sri Lankans are trying to imply here is Sinhalese are innocent and never did any atrocities on tamils.
They are embarrased by the fact they pushed tamils into terrorism by petty politics..

Mate - are you still trusting the fu***** DMK and the as***e Karunanidhi? SL tamil issue is going nowhere. It saddens me that these people are ditched by everyone.

 

[Skyline]

^^ I think heinzG is referring to native people of the island. In Sri Lanka there are different groups of Tamils.
SL Tamils percentage is 11% of the population of Sri Lanka, SL Moor percentage is 9%. SL Tamils live in Northern province is something around 4.5%. Sri Lanka's future decide by majority of Sri Lankans, not a specific percentage of specific group.

I always get laugh when some Indian Tamilnadu members here such as nero, ashokdeva, rajaraja chola etc mentioning "SL Tamils are our brothers and sisters" but they don't know what type of place they have for "Indian" tag among Tamil community here.

second thing it is really funny to see Indian Tamilnadu Tamils crocodile tears, if they're worrying for deaths they should have think before giving training to a terrorist group. Tamil tigers or SL army or civilians all those are Sri Lankan people, the lost has happened to Sri Lanka.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

^^ I think heinzG is referring to native people of the island. In Sri Lanka there are different groups of Tamils.
SL Tamils percentage is 11% of the population of Sri Lanka, SL Moor percentage is 9%. SL Tamils live in Northern province is something around 4.5%. Sri Lanka's future decide by majority of Sri Lankans, not a specific percentage of specific group.

I always get laugh when some Indian Tamilnadu members here such as nero, ashokdeva, rajaraja chola etc mentioning "SL Tamils are our brothers and sisters" but they don't know what type of place they have for "Indian" tag among Tamil community here.

second thing it is really funny to see Indian Tamilnadu Tamils crocodile tears, if they're worrying for deaths they should have think before giving training to a terrorist group. Tamil tigers or SL army or civilians all those are Sri Lankan people, the lost has happened to Sri Lanka.

I was not even born when terrorist training was given to tamils. It was meant to bring SL into Indian hemisphere, after SL helped Pakistanis during 71'war without any provocations. The tamil issue was just a starting point that time.
Y did not SL maintain its neutrality?
Second u mention Sinhalese were trialed and jailed? Can u mention?
Third , Sl war could not have ended without Indian help(congress) , so it was promised to get 13th amendment done. Whether they are 13pc of population or 4.5pc doesnt matter. I just ask were is the promise? Is it in smoke?
Fourth, if it was to be decided by MAJORITY alone, in this case, sinhalese, how can the minority get their justice ?
And its true we are not able to do anything from here, other then shed tears. What can we do? We can just support them, or maximum bring a pro tamil govt through democracy.
Still people are debating UN report here, which implies SL have killed enough civilians. Am not saying LTTE was a angel in war, but it has paid its price.
Who among the SL govt will pay the price for genocide?

We discussed at length the history of Sinhalese people and it was fascinating. I respect your views but at the sametime I am not convinced yet.

Having stated that, these Tamilians were there for more than 1000 years - A person need to stay in a country for atmost 10-15 years to get a citizenship and at that point, he enjoys equal rights as others. So I do not understand this BS that Tamilians' homeland is not SL. These people are born, raised in SL and ofcourse SL treats them that way. Even the estate tamilians were accepted as citizens in 2004 if I am not mistaken by SL government.




This is not politics to make a promise and break it. This is a treaty signed between nations. Look at Pakistan - they signed the Simla agreement under pressure from India to treat all issues as bilateral ones. Have they reneged on the treaty? no.



The partition happened on religious grounds but the basic disagreement is due to division of powers - Read up what Jinnah wanted. Having stated that, India is divided into states based on languages. Have Indian central government lost anything? no. So your argument does not cut ice.




My biggest grouse. It was a non-violent movement till 1970s. India used LTTE and other militant groups which were fringe elements and made them a significant force in 1980s.
There was more than 30 years for you guys to solve the issue but there was consistent discrimination. So there no question of whether trusting the tamilians or not. Tamilians were at the receiving end but LTTE hijacked the whole cause.

The SL government agreed upon division of powers and you may go back as no one is there to fix things for SL tamilians. But history will state that SL reneged on the promise/treaty.



Mate - are you still trusting the fu***** DMK and the as***e Karunanidhi? SL tamil issue is going nowhere. It saddens me that these people are ditched by everyone.

u r right. But who is the alternative? Admk? No. MDMK? Chance eh illa. Definitely not PMK. Who then we have/?

 

[HeinzG]

We discussed at length the history of Sinhalese people and it was fascinating. I respect your views but at the sametime I am not convinced yet.

Having stated that, these Tamilians were there for more than 1000 years - A person need to stay in a country for atmost 10-15 years to get a citizenship and at that point, he enjoys equal rights as others. So I do not understand this BS that Tamilians' homeland is not SL. These people are born, raised in SL and ofcourse SL treats them that way. Even the estate tamilians were accepted as citizens in 2004 if I am not mistaken by SL government.

You have got it all wrong. Tamilian history in Sri Lanka goes as further as Sinhalese history. No one can deny that. But the issue here is that Tamils did not had a continuous political presence in Sri Lanka until 13th century when Tamils finally were able to create a kingdom in and around Jaffna peninsula. Even that was ended with the arrival of Portuguese.

If Sri Lanka agreed to a federal solution. It implies that Tamils have a continuous political presence in Sri Lankan North and East as they claim. No Tamil can prove that Tamilians originally inhabited the Sri Lankan North or East. It has archeologically proven that the credit should go to Sinhalese and the Hela people who were forefathers of Sinhalese.

This is not politics to make a promise and break it. This is a treaty signed between nations. Look at Pakistan - they signed the Simla agreement under pressure from India to treat all issues as bilateral ones. Have they reneged on the treaty? no.

The policy between India and Pakistan is a different because it binds two different countries and breaking of such would affect billions of people not only in the respective countries but also the whole world. Also according to international laws it would be disadvantageous to the party who brakes it.

What we have in Sri Lanka is a treaty which was forced on Sri Lanka by India on an internal matter. There fore such treaties can be reversed if it is disadvantageous to the host nation by majority vote.

The partition happened on religious grounds but the basic disagreement is due to division of powers - Read up what Jinnah wanted. Having stated that, India is divided into states based on languages. Have Indian central government lost anything? no. So your argument does not cut ice.

Indian government lost nothing because of this.

The 16th amendment to the Indian constitution.

Make it obligatory for seekers of public office to swear their allegiance to the Indian Republic and prescribe the various obligtory templates

List of amendments of the Constitution of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sri Lanka do not have an amendment as such. There fore it is compulsory to amend such into Sri Lankan constitution.

There was more than 30 years for you guys to solve the issue but there was consistent discrimination.

Tell me one. No one answered so far.

So there no question of whether trusting the tamilians or not. Tamilians were at the receiving end but LTTE hijacked the whole cause.

LTTE hijacked it yes. But look what they got. Only heart brakes. Tamils (I mean Tamil politicians who represent Tamils) cannot gain anything if they continue this kind of behavior of threat. They need to understand the reality and should come to agreeable terms with SLG. Then we can have a lasting peace.

 

[HeinzG]

Y did not SL maintain its neutrality?

How, by not allowing Pakistani aircraft from refueling? That would have implied Sri Lanka was on Indian side.

Second u mention Sinhalese were trialed and jailed? Can u mention?

In 1998, allegations of mass graves at Chemmani were made by a Sri Lankan soldier on trial for rape and murder. He claimed hundreds of people who disappeared from the Jaffna peninsula after it was retaken by Government troops from the LTTE in 1995-1996 were killed and buried in mass graves near the village of Chemmani. There are reports about 300 - 400 bodies being buried there.[1]

Internationally observed excavations in 1999 found 15 bodies, 2 of which were identified as men who had disappeared in 1996.[2] The findings led to charges against seven military personnel. The number of bodies exhumed is far less than the number originally alleged, and the Sri Lankan government stated that the local and foreign investigators found no graves as originally alleged and that there was no evidence of grave tampering either.[3] Seven years later, the investigation remained open, but no further bodies have been found at Chemanni.[4]

Chemmani mass graves investigation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Third , Sl war could not have ended without Indian help(congress) , so it was promised to get 13th amendment done. Whether they are 13pc of population or 4.5pc doesnt matter. I just ask were is the promise? Is it in smoke?

How can you say surely SL war couldn't have been won without India? Then did SLA lose so miserably in late 90s' is because of India?

Mate promises can be broken to suite the present needs.

Fourth, if it was to be decided by MAJORITY alone, in this case, sinhalese, how can the minority get their justice ?

So what do you suggest let minority control the majority? Trying doing that in India. Ask for Independence for Tamil Nadu. May be India will give it.

And its true we are not able to do anything from here, other then shed tears. What can we do?

Don't shed tears for the other countries people. Shed tears for your own Tamilians which are denied privileges because of their cast. (your people can send back our people that are kept in detention camps through out TN.)

BTW you can do more than shedding tears. As an example your people can invest in Northern Sri Lanka. It will help both of the communities.

Still people are debating UN report here, which implies SL have killed enough civilians. Am not saying LTTE was a angel in war, but it has paid its price.
Who among the SL govt will pay the price for genocide?

How can you decide whose gonna get paid and whose not? Are you a God or something?

u r right. But who is the alternative? Admk? No. MDMK? Chance eh illa. Definitely not PMK. Who then we have/?

My suggestion you can try SLG. It is more flexible than your TN politicos.

 

[Skyline]

I was not even born when terrorist training was given to tamils. It was meant to bring SL into Indian hemisphere, after SL helped Pakistanis during 71'war without any provocations. The tamil issue was just a starting point that time.
Y did not SL maintain its neutrality?
Second u mention Sinhalese were trialed and jailed? Can u mention?
Third , Sl war could not have ended without Indian help(congress) , so it was promised to get 13th amendment done. Whether they are 13pc of population or 4.5pc doesnt matter. I just ask were is the promise? Is it in smoke?
Fourth, if it was to be decided by MAJORITY alone, in this case, sinhalese, how can the minority get their justice ?
And its true we are not able to do anything from here, other then shed tears. What can we do? We can just support them, or maximum bring a pro tamil govt through democracy.
Still people are debating UN report here, which implies SL have killed enough civilians. Am not saying LTTE was a angel in war, but it has paid its price.
Who among the SL govt will pay the price for genocide?



u r right. But who is the alternative? Admk? No. MDMK? Chance eh illa. Definitely not PMK. Who then we have/?

It's not a excuse, training and funding a terrorist group is not good image for a democratic country and India's democracy.
Pakistan is a legit government so one government can legally contact another government, it is not just like deal with a terrorist organization.

Sri Lanka's neutrality means not what you want to see in Indian eye.

I don't get it can you ask that question bit clearly again?

Did your congress come to battle field in SL? Even the India blocked when we are trying to have 3D radar system from Israel and direct us to Indian 2D radar system which wasn't capable of catching low flying planes.
As I said earlier 13th amendment isn't what Tamil got, it is our one of system. we have 9 provinces and 8 provincial councils are functioning at this moment. Eastern provincial council elections won by current president party few months ago too. Northern provincial council election is next year. but other small and large scale elections are already done, those are already functioning in all areas except 2 or 3 coz these areas aren't de-mined yet. de-mining will finish in Next March. These decisions take by the commissioner of elections in Sri Lanka, not by the SL government.

lol Sinhalese aren't voting for thinking ethnic base, I only know such 2 parties but they don't have much votes. We have 2 major parties, president Mahinda Rajapaksha represents UPFA (United National Freedom Alliance) This includes Tamil and moor representing parties too. Then we have opposition party, UNP (united National Party) under the leadership of Ranil Wickramasinghe. These are national parties it represent all ethnics in SL. Just take our 225 parliament members or go to our election website, you can see who representing these parties. more details are there.

mate you are Indian, you don't have no right to Sri Lankan issues. As a human if you want to shed tears, do it on behalf of all Sri Lankans who lost their lives! and ask from your Tamilnadu politicians and from your country why trained a terrorist group? This Tamil tigers killed dozens of moderate Tamil politicians including out former foreign minister Laxman Kadiragamar who was a Tamil. he had a big chance of becoming PM of Sri Lanka but Tamil tigers killed him. I can give a list of Tamil MPs got killed by Tamil Tigers if you want.

figure of 40000 is so fake, I'm living in here if such thing happened every family should have missed one! SL Army fought with a terrorist group not with civilians. if Army wanted to kill civilians why they want to keep 11,000 LTTE members at that time? It is funny isn't it.