Ultimately: China Rejects The Concept Of Sovereignty Except For China

[gambit]

Baltic states condemn China envoy’s remarks over sovereignty of ex-Soviet nations

Lu Shaye’s comments raise fresh questions over China’s role in brokering peace in Ukraine

www.theguardian.com

Lu Shaye’s remarks in a TV interview late on Friday raise fresh questions about the faith the French president, Emmanuel Macron, has placed in China to act as a mediator between Russia and Ukraine.​

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Lu had been asked whether he considered the peninsula of Crimea, which was annexed by Russia in 2014, part of Ukraine under international law.​

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“Even these ex-Soviet Union countries do not have effective status, as we say, under international law because there’s no international accord to concretise their status as a sovereign country,” Lu said.​

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Lu’s comments appeared to brush aside the sovereignty of countries, including ironically Russia, that formally recognised each other after the Soviet Union’s dissolution and are represented at the United Nations and in European security organisations.​

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What China is doing is using Russia-Ukraine as a test case for possible future subjugation of Asia. Whatever country that China tried to conquer, had trade relations, geopolitical dominance, or even influenced, China could claim ownership.

This is not a case of 'stupid comment'. Historically, whenever an empire failed of continuous governance of contiguous territories and colonies, those territories became sovereign states by default. China is essentially gaslighting the world starting with Ukraine. China is giving moral support, for now, to Russia. As Ukraine loses the war, just like with Taiwan, China will use diplomatic and economic pressures on other countries to get them to decertify Ukraine as an independent state in their foreign policies.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

he only meant 'ex-Soviet Union countries', from a legal standpoint

 

[gambit]

he only meant 'ex-Soviet Union countries', from a legal standpoint

For now. And what 'legal' standpoint has China presented to justify merely an opinion? None.

 

[JSCh]

That is just something said by an ambassador during a talk show interview.

It is ridiculous to suggest China do not recognize their sovereignty as a country/state, as there are various border agreement signed, and there are specific clause in Shanghai Cooperation Organisation regarding border security. It has been about 30 years already.

There are also obviously border dispute between various states that are still not resolved. Is it not true that they are not settled under international law?

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

China has the right to recognize or not recognize. China don't need anyone's opinion.

 

[gambit]

That is just something said by an ambassador during a talk show interview.

It is ridiculous to suggest China do not recognize their sovereignty as a country/state, as there are various border agreement signed, and there are specific clause in Shanghai Cooperation Organisation regarding border security. It has been about 30 years already.

There are also obviously border dispute between various states that are still not resolved. Is it not true that they are not settled under international law?

Lu Shaye did not say 'I'. He said 'we'. As I explained in another discussion, diplomats say what they are AUTHORIZED to say. It means high level diplomats, such as the ambassador level, have to be careful on what they say because countries cannot take it on faith that what was said was accidental. So when Shaye used 'we', what else can the world do but take notice?

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

Lu Shaye did not say 'I'. He said 'we'. As I explained in another discussion, diplomats say what they are AUTHORIZED to say. It means high level diplomats, such as the ambassador level, have to be careful on what they say because countries cannot take it on faith that what was said was accidental. So when Shaye used 'we', what else can the world do but take notice?

China could still say he misspoke and replace him

 

[renhai]

Baltic states condemn China envoy’s remarks over sovereignty of ex-Soviet nations

Lu Shaye’s comments raise fresh questions over China’s role in brokering peace in Ukraine

www.theguardian.com

Lu Shaye’s remarks in a TV interview late on Friday raise fresh questions about the faith the French president, Emmanuel Macron, has placed in China to act as a mediator between Russia and Ukraine.​

​

Lu had been asked whether he considered the peninsula of Crimea, which was annexed by Russia in 2014, part of Ukraine under international law.​

​

“Even these ex-Soviet Union countries do not have effective status, as we say, under international law because there’s no international accord to concretise their status as a sovereign country,” Lu said.​

​

Lu’s comments appeared to brush aside the sovereignty of countries, including ironically Russia, that formally recognised each other after the Soviet Union’s dissolution and are represented at the United Nations and in European security organisations.​

​

What China is doing is using Russia-Ukraine as a test case for possible future subjugation of Asia. Whatever country that China tried to conquer, had trade relations, geopolitical dominance, or even influenced, China could claim ownership.

This is not a case of 'stupid comment'. Historically, whenever an empire failed of continuous governance of contiguous territories and colonies, those territories became sovereign states by default. China is essentially gaslighting the world starting with Ukraine. China is giving moral support, for now, to Russia. As Ukraine loses the war, just like with Taiwan, China will use diplomatic and economic pressures on other countries to get them to decertify Ukraine as an independent state in their foreign policies.

It's very funny. When will these 'sovereign countries' respect China's sovereignty?

first. Sovereign countries have independent diplomatic rights... Do these "sovereign countries" know what "independent diplomacy" is when they infringe on China's sovereignty?

If these 'sovereign states' feel offended. It can interrupt all diplomatic relations with China. But I'm sorry. These 'sovereign countries' have no right to do anything except obey their masters' orders.

 

[JSCh]

Lu Shaye did not say 'I'. He said 'we'. As I explained in another discussion, diplomats say what they are AUTHORIZED to say. It means high level diplomats, such as the ambassador level, have to be careful on what they say because countries cannot take it on faith that what was said was accidental. So when Shaye used 'we', what else can the world do but take notice?

I think what he meant isn't that the sovereignty of state not recognized, but the full territory is not recognized by international law.

For example, is the territory integrity of Yugoslavia recognized?

How about Nagorno-Karabakh dispute between Azerbaijian and Armenia? Whose sovereignty do international law recognized there, Azeris or Armenian?

 

[etylo]

Very funny for the OP to make such stupid statement about China. If that's the case, maybe, China should not recognize the US sovereignty over Texas and Hawaii and support their independence just as many Yankees support Taiwan independence. The Chinese Foreign Ministry has already cleared up West media's distortion of the ambassador's talk by stating that China respects and recognizes the sovereignty of all former Soviet republic countries. So, what is the fk to keep making big fuss of the distorted speech.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

China has the right to recognize or not recognize. China don't need anyone's opinion.

Exactly! This is what @gambit does not understand.

For example Lithuania is illegal so their relations with Taiwan are illegal too.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Why do people hold the assumption that every country deserves sovereignty? Those little post-Soviet statelets are too stupid and their existence too provocative to have sovereignty. They should be folded into Russia.

This quote (whose source is sadly lost) describes the contemptible Baltics perfectly:

Estonia is made up of beet and onion slop eating Hungarians who polished the c*cks of German horses for 1,000 years before being elevated to sapience by the USSR.

 

[retaxis]

funny how low IQ western half breeds always suggest any random person speaks for 1.5billion chinese lol

 

[gambit]

The spin machine is working overtime. We got some trying to make this a mistake and some talking tough for the mistake. Cannot get their shit straight.

 

[jhungary]

I think what he meant isn't that the sovereignty of state not recognized, but the full territory is not recognized by international law.

For example, is the territory integrity of Yugoslavia recognized?

How about Nagorno-Karabakh dispute between Azerbaijian and Armenia? Whose sovereignty do international law recognized there, Azeris or Armenian?

That's the same, because sovereignty is about territorial integrity.

You cannot recognize a part of territories of a sovereignty nation and not the other part, that mean you don't respect their sovereignty.

And we aren't talking about dispute either, disputed border is under dispute because of ownership issue, one claim the other, that's outside the concept of sovereign, as in you did not control the disputed part of that territories. But in this case, that ambassador is not talking about dispute part of a nation like 9 dots line and China or Navassa Island and the US, he is talking about the entire sovereign of former soviet bloc does not have the legal ramification of sovereignty, ie, the sovereignty of Latvia is not the same as the sovereignty of say, France. Because they were ex-soviet nation.