Ultimate Super Gun.

[Materialistic]

There is already a similar research going on but for a specific purpose of transporting optical lenses to absorb sunlight by Discovery channel under Project Earth where they are looking for ways to meet the challenges of global warming.

The have devised a silent cannon where magnets are used to accelerate the projectile within the canon producing more than 10Gs and resulting in an acceleration of 0 to few hundred kilometers within a meters distance but the problem appeared was, the fragile stuff inside it cudnt take the g-force which was solved by creating a vacuum inside.

Simply no vacuum will result in no shock wave inside the cylinder so no G effect =D. i know its clever

 

[pak-yes]

You can say that atmosphere ends at start of mesosphere, roughly 50 kms - 160,000 feets. Though at such velocities, guidance by air would seize at much lower heights.

Well Practically speaking you are right.Even at 150,000 the Air Would become so thin that it could not be much used for adjusting direction.

Wrong. Higher the velocity, more difficult to change course. The formula for force to change direction is MV(2)/R. Square of V means that at high velocities, even slight change in direction would require great force.
Now, a satellite (few mtrs in dimension) moves at few km/s, in direction perpendicular to our proposed asat. Means even slightest miscalculation, and asat will miss the satellite by large distance. So we would need a good system to change course. But than all that is left to convert our shell into a missile is a propulsion system!!

Sorry,My Bad.so it seems that when the Projectile would have more speed more thrust would be needed to adjust direction.

So who would Provide so much force.I mean that means we would need mega thrusters instead of minute.And yes again even a slight miscalculation would mean our several Hundred thousand shell go waste.

hmmmm.Then you are right there isn't much difference left in our Shell and a missile.

But still i think it still could be viable.
How???

Look the major Expense in a missile is it's Propulsion.Now i don't even have a general Idea of Cost of Asat missiles but it would safe to assume they would be over 5 million per unit.

and judging by their complexity it would also be safe to assume that always it wouldn't be Possible that every missile shot is successful.

So suppose that we fire 10-15 shells to shot down a satellite.

And each shell costs half a million.

So it would cost approximately be 5-6 million with a guarantee that the satellite would be shot down.

 

[pak-yes]

There is already a similar research going on but for a specific purpose of transporting optical lenses to absorb sunlight by Discovery channel under Project Earth where they are looking for ways to meet the challenges of global warming.

The have devised a silent cannon where magnets are used to accelerate the projectile within the canon producing more than 10Gs and resulting in an acceleration of 0 to few hundred kilometers within a meters distance but the problem appeared was, the fragile stuff inside it cudnt take the g-force which was solved by creating a vacuum inside.

Simply no vacuum will result in no shock wave inside the cylinder so no G effect =D. i know its clever

Well i did watched an episode or 2 of Project Earth.

And yes they did Suggested the use of Magnets for Propulsion.Although i don't remember the vacuum thing and well it is a genius idea.Don't know however why they wouldn't implement it.

I think it would more of a sister of Rail Gun.

 

[Materialistic]

Well i did watched an episode or 2 of Project Earth.

And yes they did Suggested the use of Magnets for Propulsion.Although i don't remember the vacuum thing and well it is a genius idea.Don't know however why they wouldn't implement it.

I think it would more of a sister of Rail Gun.

Yeah it is quite similar. They did use it but they lost the lenses in the end because of some malfunction of parachute which resulted in fall of projectile back on ground and the episode ended.

But use of magnets is really environmentally friendly, no need of burning fuels.

 

[no_name]

They need alot of power though, and these needs to be generated somewhere. I think a dedicated nuclear plant might be needed.

 

[no_name]

If long range can be achieved and with enough miniaturisation it might be a good option for nuclear powered ships and submarines. also can fit nuclear warhead

 

[saurabh]

Well Practically speaking you are right.Even at 150,000 the Air Would become so thin that it could not be much used for adjusting direction.



Sorry,My Bad.so it seems that when the Projectile would have more speed more thrust would be needed to adjust direction.

So who would Provide so much force.I mean that means we would need mega thrusters instead of minute.And yes again even a slight miscalculation would mean our several Hundred thousand shell go waste.

hmmmm.Then you are right there isn't much difference left in our Shell and a missile.

But still i think it still could be viable.
How???

Look the major Expense in a missile is it's Propulsion.Now i don't even have a general Idea of Cost of Asat missiles but it would safe to assume they would be over 5 million per unit.

and judging by their complexity it would also be safe to assume that always it wouldn't be Possible that every missile shot is successful.

So suppose that we fire 10-15 shells to shot down a satellite.

And each shell costs half a million.

So it would cost approximately be 5-6 million with a guarantee that the satellite would be shot down.

Nope, again!! The navigation system of the missile is equally costly. And if you want highly accurate missile, its navigation becomes extremely costly. It is said that the cost of interception for the ASAT fired by US was 100 million $. Any way, I do not know much about how missiles are guided outside atmosphere so cant say...

Again, you missed the fundamental problem. The missiles navigation system would employ electronics etc. How would it stand such high Gs??

The only thing to gain from such cannons would be removal of propulsion system, which as for as I know is not very costly. Especially the solid booster system.

 

[pak-yes]

Nope, again!! The navigation system of the missile is equally costly. And if you want highly accurate missile, its navigation becomes extremely costly. It is said that the cost of interception for the ASAT fired by US was 100 million $. Any way, I do not know much about how missiles are guided outside atmosphere so cant say...

Again, you missed the fundamental problem. The missiles navigation system would employ electronics etc. How would it stand such high Gs??

The only thing to gain from such cannons would be removal of propulsion system, which as for as I know is not very costly. Especially the solid booster system.

Ok yar my bad add navigation system also to expensive list.

Now you have missed my Point what i am trying to say.The Shells Fired from the Asat Cannon WILL NOT HAVE ANY KIND OF NAVIGATION SYSTEM OR ELECTRONICS.Because it will remove the cost benefit and besides as previously agreed no kind of Present Technology can withstand hundreds of Gs.

Yes Other than Few Fins or Some kind of Thrusters the shells will rely Primarily on the Precise data which has been collected by the Radio Telescope.I mean we can Use Super Computers to analyze and Predict the Precise Position of the Satellite.

After that all that Data has to be fed into the Cannon.And After Complete and minute adjustments we can start firing shells.Each shell would costing half a million because they internally don't have a guidance system other than fins and thrusters.

Now the low cost and Fast Rate of fire would mean that Even if first few Shells miss the satellite.More shells could be fired after adjustments and that too would be Quick because of the high rate of fire of the Cannon.

 

[saurabh]

Ok yar my bad add navigation system also to expensive list.

Now you have missed my Point what i am trying to say.The Shells Fired from the Asat Cannon WILL NOT HAVE ANY KIND OF NAVIGATION SYSTEM OR ELECTRONICS.Because it will remove the cost benefit and besides as previously agreed no kind of Present Technology can withstand hundreds of Gs.

Yes Other than Few Fins or Some kind of Thrusters the shells will rely Primarily on the Precise data which has been collected by the Radio Telescope.I mean we can Use Super Computers to analyze and Predict the Precise Position of the Satellite.

After that all that Data has to be fed into the Cannon.And After Complete and minute adjustments we can start firing shells.Each shell would costing half a million because they internally don't have a guidance system other than fins and thrusters.

Now the low cost and Fast Rate of fire would mean that Even if first few Shells miss the satellite.More shells could be fired after adjustments and that too would be Quick because of the high rate of fire of the Cannon.

The fins, thrusters would rely on navigation system/electronics. If you want to have a precision weapon, it needs to have a navigation system, period. How would the thrusters/fins would know where to guide/how to guide the shell, without electronics? Hence even they are not possible.

Currently we detect and track any aircraft/missile/satellite etc by radars. It has some inherent limitation to precision. If you mean to fire projectiles in general direction of satellite, than its not possible either. In videos, movies etc have you seen anti-aircraft gun firing? How many shots hit the aircraft for total shots fired? Firing on a satellite will be much more difficult, the travel at few km/s. Accuracy will be limited. When a high vel. shell pass through atm, various factors will effect its direction. You are talking about hitting a target ~400km in sky moving with ~5km/s, just a few meters wide!! Think about the precision required! Present day asat have inbuilt navigation system, radar/tracking devices. If we just keep on firing shells on satellite (which, without navigation system would cost may be few $!!), hit probability may be less than 1 in several thousands!! And we wont get chance to fire even a thousand shell cause the satellite will move out of range in a few minutes..

 

[pak-yes]

The fins, thrusters would rely on navigation system/electronics. If you want to have a precision weapon, it needs to have a navigation system, period. How would the thrusters/fins would know where to guide/how to guide the shell, without electronics? Hence even they are not possible.

hmmm good Point.So Now we also minus fins and thrusters from the Equation.Now what is left behind.

Currently we detect and track any aircraft/missile/satellite etc by radars. It has some inherent limitation to precision. If you mean to fire projectiles in general direction of satellite, than its not possible either. In videos, movies etc have you seen anti-aircraft gun firing? How many shots hit the aircraft for total shots fired? Firing on a satellite will be much more difficult, the travel at few km/s. Accuracy will be limited. When a high vel. shell pass through atm, various factors will effect its direction. You are talking about hitting a target ~400km in sky moving with ~5km/s, just a few meters wide!! Think about the precision required! Present day asat have inbuilt navigation system, radar/tracking devices. If we just keep on firing shells on satellite (which, without navigation system would cost may be few $!!), hit probability may be less than 1 in several thousands!! And we wont get chance to fire even a thousand shell cause the satellite will move out of range in a few minutes..

Yar you again got it wrong.I am Talking about Geo-Synchronous satellites which are traveling at exactly the velocity as earth so hovering above a single point.Asat Cannon will only be used for shooting them down.

Yes well there will be a limitation of Precision on the amount of Data Collected before launching the shell.

Well yes the main factor would be the unknown effect of forces affecting the shell when it gets into atmosphere.So well you are Probably right without guidance it would be very difficult if not Impossible to hit the sat.

 

[saurabh]

Yar you again got it wrong.I am Talking about Geo-Synchronous satellites which are traveling at exactly the velocity as earth so hovering above a single point.Asat Cannon will only be used for shooting them down.

Geosynchronous orbit is roughly 36000 km above earth surface...
Also, its geostationary satellites that remain fixed, not geosynchronous. There are very few geostationary satellites, while total (including geostationary) geosynchronous satellites are just 300.

The chances of a shell without guidance to hit a fixed, few meter wide target 36000 km away are (I suppose, for all practical purposes) negligible. Then a geosynchronous satellite won't be stationary, it would be oscillating!!

Man... If it was up to you, Pakistan would have got several units of such cannons!!
I used to think about such cannons to, but now it seem worth waiting for rail gun to advance...

 

[pak-yes]

Geosynchronous orbit is roughly 36000 km above earth surface...
Also, its geostationary satellites that remain fixed, not geosynchronous. There are very few geostationary satellites, while total (including geostationary) geosynchronous satellites are just 300.

The chances of a shell without guidance to hit a fixed, few meter wide target 36000 km away are (I suppose, for all practical purposes) negligible. Then a geosynchronous satellite won't be stationary, it would be oscillating!!

Man... If it was up to you, Pakistan would have got several units of such cannons!!
I used to think about such cannons to, but now it seem worth waiting for rail gun to advance...

Yar acha bhai you are right you have grounded my dreams even before they had started.

 

[saurabh]

Yar acha bhai you are right you have grounded my dreams even before they had started.

On a serious note, why to ground them. Groom them. Try to come up with something to counter my points. If some one had tried to make a gun like that, there must be some reason, something special about it. May be I am overestimating the difficulties..

 

[pak-yes]

On a serious note, why to ground them. Groom them. Try to come up with something to counter my points. If some one had tried to make a gun like that, there must be some reason, something special about it. May be I am overestimating the difficulties..

Nahi yar your Points are quite valid.It would be nearly impossible to shoot down a satellite based only on the information on the ground.

Maybe in future if not Satellites,Space Stations could be shot down with Asat Cannon.

 

[pak-yes]

What about using this cannon to haul large Mechanical Loads into Space.

I mean they could be delivered into space at a fraction cost of Space Shuttle.