Ukraine says Malaysian airliner shot down, 295 dead: agency

[Irfan Baloch]

They have pre-planned routes. I suppose certain airlines opted out of it and others stuck to the risk. In either case, a Buk-M1 is a very potent system. And who ever used it , used it well. Considering that a Ukrainian Su-25 bit the dust recently, I would not discount a trigger happy rebel Sam user( who would have no coordination with ATC nor would be interested as such) to bring down a airliner in the race to claim more Ukrainian aircraft.

I was listening to the Ukrainian ambassador who said that most likely a manpad was involved the same thig that brought down the SU25.
he says the rebels were chest thumping over shooting down yet another Ukranian plane abut when they found out that it was a commercial airliner then they dont want to know
if something has reached 35K feet then it might be bigger than a Manpad

 

[Jango]

if something has reached 35K feet then it might be bigger than a Manpad

No question about it.

Various reports coming in, regarding photos of a missile found at the crash site, BUK launcher pictured in a nearby city with separatists and a separatists tweet regarding a threat for overhead flying.

 

[SQ8]

I was listening to the Ukrainian ambassador who said that most likely a manpad was involved the same thig that brought down the SU25.
he says the rebels were chest thumping over shooting down yet another Ukranian plane abut when they found out that it was a commercial airliner then they dont want to know
if something has reached 35K feet then it might be bigger than a Manpad

MANPADS cant make it to 35000 feet.. nor do they have the ability to pick out a target that high easily. Additionally, a MANPAD wont blow an airliner out of the sky that quickly. Even the Igla carries a 11kg warhead that would cripple the airliner but leave enough time for the pilots to call a distress.
This was a large SAM that had a warhead in the order of around 50 Kg plus and a missile with a high terminal velocity. The Buk missile weighs around 700 Kg.. and a 70 kg warhead. That will kill an airliner and literally bring it crashing down as with this flight.

 

[senheiser]

Reuters saying it was shot down

Reuters = western propaganda

It was called secure from the EU flight control. Evry airline did fly over this area.

so the EU is to be blamed

RT are the exact same as their PISSTV cousins. Both should be banned. Horrible "news" outlets. No wonder that Russia and mullahistan are allies.

Only RT clowns can make such pathetic theories that would envy an alcoholic in a Danish bodega early Saturday morning.

comes from child molesters and womens beating media.

The Ukraine is unlikely, because prior being shot over rebel controlled area it flew hundreds of miles over the Ukraine.

they shot it down because of flase flag attack

 

[senheiser]

What is this kind of nonsense? Russians are the number 1 when it comes to murdering others and their own together with the Chinese.

Last time I checked Russian's are white too despite having Mongol/Uralic (non-Caucasian) admixture to various degrees.

Russia should be further sanctioned and Europe should find alternative energy suppliers. The sooner the better.

haha from Jihadists and womens beater like you who spread their wahbi islam into europe?

How about NATO string some trouble up in Russia? I mean Russian's are living on stolen land in most of their current territories. I think that Russia could be further divided like the failed USSR was.

In the meantime I suggest that Vladi returns to Siberia.

the only living ins tolen land are you saudis, which belongs to shias

Russia terrorists they shot it down ..... why because they think it is cargo plane .... but don't mean they don't get punished for it .... i hope that Ukrainian army kill them all .. then kick Russians out

jawohl mein führer

 

[Kaalapani]

The Ukraine is unlikely, because prior being shot over rebel controlled area it flew hundreds of miles over the Ukraine.

I have seen same post once or twice from different posters or peoplE with multiple IDS.

SAMS fired from Ukraine can take out planes on enemy soil.

Logic fails.

 

[Schutz]

Reuters = western propaganda



so the EU is to be blamed



comes from child molesters and womens beating media.



they shot it down because of flase flag attack

Typical response, blame someone else and then claim false flag, you CANT do that for every single attack that has ever happened from Russia/Supporters, that is a very bloody region historically so always denying everything stinks of bullshit. They have to take the blame, people in that region value human life as much as I value that of a spider and one side always acting innocent is laughable, savages surrounded by savages, that area reminds me of Africa, people killing each other over politics, poverty, corruption, idealising leaders. The same uneducated people are just as likely to fire an AA missile into the sky thinking hooahh for the great leader Putin, lets defeat these Nazi dogs etcetc

 

[Irfan Baloch]

MANPADS cant make it to 35000 feet.. nor do they have the ability to pick out a target that high easily. Additionally, a MANPAD wont blow an airliner out of the sky that quickly. Even the Igla carries a 11kg warhead that would cripple the airliner but leave enough time for the pilots to call a distress.
This was a large SAM that had a warhead in the order of around 50 Kg plus and a missile with a high terminal velocity. The Buk missile weighs around 700 Kg.. and a 70 kg warhead. That will kill an airliner and literally bring it crashing down as with this flight.

thats true
the rebels have full compliment of dedicated bigger air defense equipment shoulder fired or man pad has only up to 2 to 6 km range.

 

[Chak Bamu]

@Kaalapani , watch it. You are skirting Thread Ban territory. Me and Oscar have already cleaned this thread three times. We can not go on wasting our time on other people's indiscretions and bickering.

 

[Burger Boy]

So if this was pro-Russian rebels then how exactly do they have access to something like Buk Missile system

Shouldn't "rebels" anti-air weapons only be limited to MANPADS....or is the Russian military occupying eastern Ukraine?

 

[senheiser]

Typical response, blame someone else and then claim false flag, you CANT do that for every single attack that has ever happened from Russia/Supporters, that is a very bloody region historically so always denying everything stinks of bullshit. They have to take the blame, people in that region value human life as much as I value that of a spider and one side always acting innocent is laughable, savages surrounded by savages, that area reminds me of Africa, people killing each other over politics, poverty, corruption, idealising leaders. The same uneducated people are just as likely to fire an AA missile into the sky thinking hooahh for the great leader Putin, lets defeat these Nazi dogs etcetc

lol we are africa? You egyptians are africans and poor and in turmoil since 100 years, your a backwards culture thats why youre mega poor. Its just that ukraine is completely backwards, we need to bring them civilisation.

Also even if we shot it down i still dont care because you westerners and other thought you could sit down and watch how russian and ukrainian brothers are killing each other but what goes around comes around.


god gave revenge against the foreign conspirators in ukraine

 

[nangyale]

There are already speculations about a false flag, about Ukie military aircraft seen flying next to the Malaysian aircraft, even about some parachutes seen near the place were the plane was shot down. I have even seen some speculations about Putin's official aircraft looking like the Malaysian one and that this could have been an attempt to shoot it down. Clearly the rumor mill is blasting at full power.

Still, the Ukies have already immensely benefited from this incident: now that all the media is completely focused on what happened to this Malaysian airliner, nobody is informed of the catastrophic failure of Poroshenko "surprise" offensive. Right there we already have the first cui bono going to the junta. Second, since no matter what happened the western regimes and media will blame the Russians for this incident, the Ukies will use it in their propaganda campaign (they apparently have already asked NATO for "help" whatever that means). So that is a second cui bono for the junta. As for the Novorussians and Russia, this incident is really the last thing they need.

For whatever it's worth, and without wanting to give anybody false hopes, I personally think that it is extremely unlikely that the Russians did it because they have a fully integrated, multi layered, advance air defense systems staffed only by specialists. In contrast, the Ukies have an old, decrepit, non-integrated air defense "system" staffed by underpaid, demoralized and poorly trained conscripts. And since the Kremlin likes to maintain the illusion that it does not control the Novorussians, even if there is proof that the latter are responsible for this catastrophe, this will not directly implicate Russia (which would have been the worst option). I hope that the Russians will be able to prove that the Novorussians did not do it by, for example, finding key parts of the missile(s) which hit MH17 or by showing all the Resistance missiles "unshot", right there in the hangars were they were found.

Another thing which has not been done is a careful calculation of the exact flight envelope of the missiles in Novorussian hands. In the real world, you cannot just say that a missile can shoot a target going at speed X and altitude Y. You need to calculate an exact flight envelope and compare it against the exact flight characteristics of the target supposedly hit. In other words, until somebody makes such an analysis, there is no proof that the Novorussian Buks could have shot down this aircraft.

Then, let's see what the black boxes show. Apparently, those were found by the good guys and sent to Moscow. Also, the Russian Air Defenses have the exact flight parameters of the Malaysian aircraft and of any missile(s) which could have hit him. If the Ukies did it, chances are pretty good that the Russians will be able to prove it. Alas, if the Novorussians did it, the Russians will probably also provide the evidence as covering up for it would be foolish.

For the time being, let's not run after each rumor and let's just wait for 48 hours or so, when at least we will have some facts to look at.

 

[dlclong]

Wait for the real conclusions

 

[Counter-Errorist]

, I personally think that it is extremely unlikely that the Russians did it because they have a fully integrated, multi layered, advance air defense systems staffed only by specialists. In contrast, the Ukies have an old, decrepit, non-integrated air defense "system" staffed by underpaid, demoralized and poorly trained conscripts.

Russians are arming the separatists who've got these SAMs capable of taking out the airline but no multi-layered, integrated air defense system to go with it. They probably don't even have a functioning radar.

 

[jbond197]

Damn, this is sick!! What the F is wrong with these people, they shot down a civilian airplane? Why?? What was the fault of those who were in the flight?

Looks like Malaysian airlines is jinxed. Till now I would have been scared flying in it over sea, but now even over land!!

RIP, the deceased souls!!