U.S. to intensify drone strikes in Pakistan

[RazPaK]

Ok, I should have phrased it better. As a percentage, one drone strike kills how many terrorist and how many civilians?

Let's put 99 terrorists with Mercenary in a building and find out!!

 

[Jackdaws]

Drone strikes have been very effective.

Why would America waste 70,000 dollar missiles to kill innocents which only generate more anti-Americanism in Pakistan.

Nationalistic Pakistanis will never admit the drone strikes are successful. Even if a drone strike kills 99 terrorists and 1 innocent civilian, these guys will be all over the 1 innocent person killed. There is no technology on the planet which can have a 100% success rate of avoiding innocents.

Its sad its happening, but in order to make Pakistan safe, this action has to be taken.

Why would the Americans do it? Really? The guys will exhaust all possibilities before doing the right thing.

 

[TaimiKhan]

The goals were to eliminate the Al-Qaeda leadership and to render the area unusable as a launching pad for future attacks on USA. As long as Taleban do not allow a resurgence, their control poses no issues from the US point of view.

Iraq and Iran are different issues altogether that do not directly concern Pakistan, so I will leave them aside for now, in this thread.

They could have eliminated AQ through other means also, invading was not the only option.

I did not brought in Iraq and Iran, i brought in Iraq to compare it with Afghanistan. Read my post again and see what i am talking about. it concerns directly with you and other americans like you who come and insult us about not doing enough, while your country has not itself done enough in Afghanistan from where 9/11 happened, rather they spent more money and time on Iraq in the cover of WoT, so that they can control the oil. I am doing the comparison, of how much resources put in to control oil and how much resources and effort done for taking revenge of 2000+ Americans killed by terrorists.

If you do get time someday and are free from bashing Pakistan all the time, do think about the above comparison and ask your local senator of the reason to this. may be then if you are thinking sanely, you might ask that yeah US did not do enough to bring stability to Afghanistan.

 

[bindaas]

After reading your first para, i had no courage left to go forward, as its useless to argue with people who get their info from wikipedias or stuff like that by sitting somewhere abroad.

After 2007, when drone strikes increased, Pakistan saw the bloodiest & most brutal time period in this whole War of Terror. Major blasts happened in 2007 and going forward, huge ones. The city i live in, it saw for whole 11 days non stop suicide bombings, not a single day would pass when we would not hear a bomb blast, and 4 of them happened within 1Km of where i live, even my 2 month old daughter got injured in one of the blasts. Since the say Army moved against the US funded/supported TTP, things started to come to normal, it wasn't due to US drone strikes, rather it was due to the Pak Army operations that we are now at a relative peace, but since in recent days 2 drones have happened, very soon it will be avenged by the TTP through some suicide blasts.

Sorry, could not reply to your rest of the post as did not read after your ignorant filled first para, which is not what the reality is.

US drone strikes have brought more death and destruction for Pakistanis, the calm we see is thanks to the hundreds of soldiers we lost against US funded/supported TTP and controlling the movement of US contractors.

Why I am seeing a contradiction in the two highlighted comments.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Drone strikes have been very effective.

Why would America waste 70,000 dollar missiles to kill innocents which only generate more anti-Americanism in Pakistan.

Nationalistic Pakistanis will never admit the drone strikes are successful. Even if a drone strike kills 99 terrorists and 1 innocent civilian, these guys will be all over the 1 innocent person killed. There is no technology on the planet which can have a 100% success rate of avoiding innocents.

Its sad its happening, but in order to make Pakistan safe, this action has to be taken.

That 1 civilian killed might bring in 100 new recruits to the taliban/AQ camp, ever thought that. Just like the 2000+ killed in New York brought in thousands of young Americans in the armed forces to take revenge for the loved ones and their countrymen, similarly, civilians killed here, brings in more recruits for the Taliban/AQ.

Why I am seeing a contradiction in the two highlighted comments.

aaahhhhh Indians. See my other posts buddy, may be you see that there is no contradiction.

The TTP takes revenge from us pakistanis, by killing civilians in suicide bombings and label it as a revenge for the US drone strike. They don't take the revenge from the Americans, they take it from us.

Hope you got the point.

 

[Mercenary]

Ok, I should have phrased it better. As a percentage, one drone strike kills how many terrorist and how many civilians?

When the drone campaign first started (2004-2008), there was a higher percentage of civilians killed. This was due to the drones themselves becoming much more effective as increasing their loiter time, being able to see targets through heavy cloud cover, and night time spying. As before, even if there non-hostiles present, the missile was fired as the drone was nearing the end of its loiter time and they did not want to lose the target.

Now with more drones available, as the drone's loiter time ends, another can take its place. So US drone pilots are also much more patient in actually figuring the optimal time to attack to minimize civilian casualties.

The American New American Foundation estimates that between 1,785 and 2,771 people have been killed in drone strikes of which 1,492 and 2,300 are militants and rest are civilians, so a roughly +80% strike rate on militants. Most of the civilian deaths occurred during 2004-2008 and these days, they are achieving a +95% strike rate on militants.

This has decimated the ranks of Al Qaeda, the TTP and foreign fighters who are streaming into Pakistan.

http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/drones

Or go here as well. This a British Journalism Site but they have arrived at the same numbers.

http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2011/08/10/resources-and-graphs/

 

[Jackdaws]

That 1 civilian killed might bring in 100 new recruits to the taliban/AQ camp, ever thought that. Just like the 2000+ killed in New York brought in thousands of young Americans in the armed forces to take revenge for the loved ones and their countrymen, similarly, civilians killed here, brings in more recruits for the Taliban/AQ.



aaahhhhh Indians. See my other posts buddy, may be you see that there is no contradiction.

The TTP takes revenge from us pakistanis, by killing civilians in suicide bombings and label it as a revenge for the US drone strike. They don't take the revenge from the Americans, they take it from us.

Hope you got the point.

And the belief that India supports the TTP - is it a mainstream belief or a fringe belief?

 

[TaimiKhan]

And the belief that India supports the TTP - is it a mainstream belief or a fringe belief?

Money to TTP has been flowing in from different directions and sources. Some from our own brethren and some from outsiders.

You do remember the saying,the enemy of my enemy is my friend

 

[Mercenary]

That 1 civilian killed might bring in 100 new recruits to the taliban/AQ camp, ever thought that. Just like the 2000+ killed in New York brought in thousands of young Americans in the armed forces to take revenge for the loved ones and their countrymen, similarly, civilians killed here, brings in more recruits for the Taliban/AQ.

Or those 99 Terrorists killed could have prevented have prevented each of them in recruiting another 10 children from local madrassas and brainwashing them into becoming suicide bombers. Ever thought of that?

 

[bindaas]

aaahhhhh Indians. See my other posts buddy, may be you see that there is no contradiction.

The TTP takes revenge from us pakistanis, by killing civilians in suicide bombings and label it as a revenge for the US drone strike. They don't take the revenge from the Americans, they take it from us.

Hope you got the point.

Because your government is fully supporting drone attacks, it was revealed in Wikileaks, so I observed something contradicting in your comments.

Army chief wanted more drone support | DAWN.COM
WikiLeaks: Pakistan quietly approved drone attacks, U.S. special units - CNN
WikiLeaks Cable: Pakistan Asked for More, Not Fewer Drones - ABC News

 

[r3alist]

In other words, do as we say or we will kill you.
Welcome to the world of us gangster politics, rogue nation.

 

[Jackdaws]

Or those 99 Terrorists killed could have prevented have prevented each of them in recruiting another 10 children from local madrassas and brainwashing them into becoming suicide bombers. Ever thought of that?

It is a circular argument. And what is stopping the Pakistani Army from taking out these guys themselves so as to prevent drones. After all, their destruction can't be bad for Pakistan. Or is there a local political angle?

 

[Mercenary]

Money to TTP has been flowing in from different directions and sources. Some from our own brethren and some from outsiders.

You do remember the saying,the enemy of my enemy is my friend

This India supporting TTP is really perplexing?

Can you please explain to me how India is supporting TTP?

Do you have any proof? Have you intercepting any communications with RAW agents and TTP?

Do you have any Indian Weapons in hands of TTP?

Even during Vietnam, US Soldiers found Chinese Weapons in hands of Viet-cong which proved that China was assisting the VietCong. What physical proof do you have that India is supporting TTP?

And how does Indian ideology gel with TTP? Why would TTP take their marching orders from Hindu India?

I need proper proof and not some Zaid Hamid type nonsense.

Personally, this TTP-India is total nonsense designed to deflect blame of TTP to India.

When you grow snakes in your backyard and throw them at your neighbor's house to take over their house and drive them out of their house, don't be shocked if those snakes start biting you and attacking other people besides your neighbors.

A snake has no master and will not obey your command. It will attack whoever is closer. And eventually it will slither back.

If you guys are smart you can see the analogy to the current situation.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Or those 99 Terrorists killed could have prevented have prevented each of them in recruiting another 10 children from local madrassas and brainwashing them into becoming suicide bombers. Ever thought of that?

Your match or logical conclusions capability is weak

Not all 99 would have been recruiters, recruiting is a tricky business and it needs skills and these people with skills are hardly killed, they play it from a safe distance.

What's the difference still, one way or another, they still got recruits, and the people taking revenge for their loved ones are more extremist and already prepared compared to the madrassah guys who need long time to be prepared. When army launched operations in early 2003-04, some civilians got killed and overnight hundreds of volunteers enlisted with the taliban for suicide missions, and that also willingly. One of the guys i know, his cousin also enlisted and he was told that you are on their list at number 451, meaning they had already 450 volunteers.

 

[bindaas]

Money to TTP has been flowing in from different directions and sources. Some from our own brethren and some from outsiders.

You do remember the saying,the enemy of my enemy is my friend

The phrase is true but you know that TTP follows ultra-extremist ideology and if they will get more hold in Pakistan, it be create more problems for India instead of benefit because tacking moderate anti-India Pakistan is easy but tacking Pakistan with bunch of maniacs is extremely difficult which will bring mayhem for the region.