U.S. to intensify drone strikes in Pakistan

[TaimiKhan]

This India supporting TTP is really perplexing?

Can you please explain to me how India is supporting TTP?

Do you have any proof? Have you intercepting any communications with RAW agents and TTP?

Do you have any Indian Weapons in hands of TTP?

Even during Vietnam, US Soldiers found Chinese Weapons in hands of Viet-cong which proved that China was assisting the VietCong. What physical proof do you have that India is supporting TTP?

And how does Indian ideology gel with TTP? Why would TTP take their marching orders from Hindu India?

I need proper proof and not some Zaid Hamid type nonsense.

Personally, this TTP-India is total nonsense designed to deflect blame of TTP to India.

When you grow snakes in your backyard and throw them at your neighbor's house to take over their house and drive them out of their house, don't be shocked if those snakes start biting you and attacking other people besides your neighbors.

A snake has no master and will not obey your command. It will attack whoever is closer. And eventually it will slither back.

If you guys are smart you can see the analogy to the current situation.

have i mentioned India ?? Did i node in Yes to the member of Indian involvement. I just said money from all the sides is flowing in.

Just think after some relaxation that how are hundreds of foot soldiers being taken care of, ammunition supplied and bought, logistical services provided, they are spending millions, from where is these millions coming.

Just recently the bannu jail break happened, the TTP claimed that they spent 20Million rupees on just this single mission. 20 Million on a single mission, just imagine the millions required to keep up that fighting force.

And again for record, i did not said directly, but if we look at our past record and Indian past record, we both will not hesitate to fund anyone who brings anarchy into each others country. that's a fact.

The phrase is true but you know that TTP follows ultra-extremist ideology and if they will get more hold in Pakistan, it be create more problems for India instead of benefit because tacking moderate anti-India Pakistan is easy but tacking Pakistan with bunch of maniacs is extremely difficult which will bring mayhem for the region.

If TTP doesn't attacks US forces in Afghanistan, how are they gonna create problem for you guys. Plus, sometimes you fund something to a certain extent, so that the issue keeps bothering you but doesn't goes out of hand.

Plus, kindly its requested not to bring in India, as i did not blame India, someone asked a simple question and i replied in a simple way, there are always possibilities but we all don't know the truth.

 

[Mercenary]

Your match or logical conclusions capability is weak

Not all 99 would have been recruiters, recruiting is a tricky business and it needs skills and these people with skills are hardly killed, they play it from a safe distance.

What's the difference still, one way or another, they still got recruits, and the people taking revenge for their loved ones are more extremist and already prepared compared to the madrassah guys who need long time to be prepared. When army launched operations in early 2003-04, some civilians got killed and overnight hundreds of volunteers enlisted with the taliban for suicide missions, and that also willingly. One of the guys i know, his cousin also enlisted and he was told that you are on their list at number 451, meaning they had already 450 volunteers.

First of all its spelled Math and not match

Second of all, I gave a simple math analogy, much like the Gun and Butter analogy used in Economics. When the choice is between Guns and Butter and everyone knows that people will buy other things besides Guns and Butter but its used to prove the overall general concept.

But the general concept remains the same. A dead terrorist cannot recruit more kids to be suicide bombers. As their ranks deplete, so will their influence, their capability to cause terrorism. As the primary instigators of terrorism are the foreigners who have invaded these lands and spread their radical influence. Once they are eradicated, the situation in those areas will calm down.

Thats all I ask. The Tribals to expel these foreign terrorists so that FATA cannot be used as a base to plot global terrorist attacks. And people in those Tribal areas can go back to their tribal life. But as long as its being used as a base of global terrorism and Pakistan won't take action, then USA has a right to fire missiles to take them out.

These terrorists roaming freely and plotting global terrorist attacks is a bigger violation of Pakistani sovereignty than the Drone missile firing and taking out these terrorists.

 

[VCheng]

............I am doing the comparison, of how much resources put in to control oil and how much resources and effort done for taking revenge of 2000+ Americans killed by terrorists..................

USA already controlled the Middle East pretty effectively even before the second Iraq war, and thus more control over oil could not have been the reason as you put it. And it would be wrong to characterize Afghanistan as taking revenge. It was done to eliminate the use of those territories for any future attacks.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Because your government is fully supporting drone attacks, it was revealed in Wikileaks, so I observed something contradicting in your comments.

Army chief wanted more drone support | DAWN.COM
WikiLeaks: Pakistan quietly approved drone attacks, U.S. special units - CNN
WikiLeaks Cable: Pakistan Asked for More, Not Fewer Drones - ABC News

Read the first article carefully, just don't go on the headlines. The army wanted something in South Waziristan where TTP was operational, but nothing came from the Americans. Army wanted help from US drones in taking out targets in SWA, but the Americans refused since they could not kill their own, thus they have been keeping their drone program specifically NWA oriented, and Army then had to move in and take out the TTP, in which US did not help. And the army guys acknowledged the lethal results it had on foreign fighters, meaning the Arabs, Chechens, Uzbeks etc etc, they did not wanted to locals to get killed as that is what brings bad name and issues for us.

Who says drone don't take out its targets, but as said when it takes civilians and the loved ones of the killed terrorists then come up and become new volunteers and again i am saying, Afghan taliban or the taliben in NWA have not taken revenge for drone strikes, rather strangely the revenge for drone strikes is taken by TTP who are not touched by drone strikes.

USA already controlled the Middle East pretty effectively even before the second Iraq war, and thus more control over oil could not have been the reason as you put it. And it would be wrong to characterize Afghanistan as taking revenge. It was done to eliminate the use of those territories for any future attacks.

Iraq war was for just oil and iran, even a layman can see it, i am surprised why can't you. Iraq was already finished and no threat to anyone. And the US lies in the UN security council meeting about WMDs is now known to all of us. I think patriotism of your country has made you blind that you are not able to see the real face of your own country. How ironic you lecture us about our military and its deficiencies and blunders, but out of sheer patriotism for your own, you neglect your owns.

And Afghanistan invasion and occupation was in revenge, had they wanted what you outlined above, then other strategies other then invasion would have first been adopted.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Just look at the number of terrorist attacks in Pakistan vs Drone strikes. It reads like an economics graph. As Price goes up, the Demand goes down.

have you taken an economics course? If so, you'd be best served by reviewing your course notes or perhaps going on to a higher level macro course.

learn about the elasticity of demand, as well as ''supply shocks''

 

[bindaas]

If TTP doesn't attacks US forces in Afghanistan, how are they gonna create problem for you guys. Plus, sometimes you fund something to a certain extent, so that the issue keeps bothering you but doesn't goes out of hand.

Plus, kindly its requested not to bring in India, as i did not blame India, someone asked a simple question and i replied in a simple way, there are always possibilities but we all don't know the truth.

Its not about Afghanistan, but a highly radicalized Pakistan means more and more dedicated War-mongering against India. The current Pakistani leadership atleast try for Peace-talks and normalizing relations with India time to time but can we expect same from Talibans. Taliban getting stronghold in Pakistan will be worst nightmare for the region.

 

[TaimiKhan]

have you taken an economics course? If so, you'd be best served by reviewing your course notes or perhaps going on to a higher level macro course.

learn about the elasticity of demand, as well as ''supply shocks''

isss ki sui aik jaghaaa hi phansi howi hai

Its not about Afghanistan, but a highly radicalized Pakistan means more and more dedicated War-mongering against India. The current Pakistani leadership atleast try for Peace-talks and normalizing relations with India time to time but can we expect same from Talibans.

Well a more radicalized Pakistan will not be a problem for just you guys, but for others too, may be that is what someone else wants as it gives them further opportunity to attack Pakistan.

 

[VCheng]

............... I think patriotism of your country has made you blind that you are not able to see the real face of your own country. How ironic you lecture us about our military and its deficiencies and blunders, but out of sheer patriotism for your own, you neglect your owns................

What I find more ironic is that USA, imperfect as it is, is not in the grave existential danger that Pakistan finds itself in presently, while people who should know better argue for equality on principle without working hard that is required to achieve it.

Bhai Sahib, agar Umreeka kee tarah man maani kerni hey to Umreeka kee tarha saalhaa saal mehnat bhee kia karein. Sirf shikayatein karney sey kuch haasil nahi ho ga.

 

[TaimiKhan]

What I find more ironic is that USA, imperfect as it is, is not in the grave existential danger that Pakistan finds itself in presently, while people who should know better argue for equality on principle without working hard that is required to achieve it.

Bhai Sahib, agar Umreeka kee tarah man maani kerni hey to Umreeka kee tarha saalhaa saal mehnat bhee kia karein. Sirf shikayatein karney sey kuch haasil nahi ho ga.

And we all are thankful to the US for its policies and games that we are today in grave existential danger. Since the day we joined the US bandwagon, we are getting f..ked up. While US remains safe, but hopefully not for long, as every empire has to see its demise one day.

I hope you do remember how was pakistan in 60s, 70s - but when a dictator comes in, when the super powers start playing their games, our society starts changing, then another dictator comes and is supported by the US once again, our graph again goes down and we are going to the down side ever since, thanks to US, Russia for their cold war and world domination power strategies.

 

[bindaas]

Well a more radicalized Pakistan will not be a problem for just you guys, but for others too, may be that is what someone else wants as it gives them further opportunity to attack Pakistan.

Our cities would be the first one to be bombed even an outside country attack.

And after reading lots of comments and news (if I am not wrong), I observed that an entire particular Pashtun tribe is TTP sympathizer or entire particular Pashtun tribe is pro-Pakistan Army. sometimes tribes with different ideology clash with each other, sometimes makes deal with each other to reduce violence and Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and FATA seems like a fragmented society.

 

[mdcp]

Allah Almighty will punish usa and nato, russia killed so many what happened defeat, americans killed plenty innocents and still doing it they will pay price they already lost the war

 

[VCheng]

And we all are thankful to the US for its policies and games that we are today in grave existential danger. Since the day we joined the US bandwagon, we are getting f..ked up. While US remains safe, but hopefully not for long, as every empire has to see its demise one day.

It is very easy to blame someone else for one's problems, is it not, as if Pakistan itself has no contribution in making its own mess? Once Pakistan realizes that the mess is largely its own creation, then may be it can come around to cleaning it up.

Having said that, I agree with you that, like all empires of the past, one day USA will decline too, although not for the foreseeable future just yet.

 

[MilSpec]

And we all are thankful to the US for its policies and games that we are today in grave existential danger. Since the day we joined the US bandwagon, we are getting f..ked up. While US remains safe, but hopefully not for long, as every empire has to see its demise one day.

I hope you do remember how was pakistan in 60s, 70s - but when a dictator comes in, when the super powers start playing their games, our society starts changing, then another dictator comes and is supported by the US once again, our graph again goes down and we are going to the down side ever since, thanks to US, Russia for their cold war and world domination power strategies.

Sir,

If your government in past did not blindly sign treaties on after the other just to get arms from US, you wouldn't have been in this position to begin with. Why haven't you kept your own interest ahead of everything else. You don't see India providing airbases and ports to USSR during the cold war, Neither do you see India or china giving Americans facility to operate from their airbases.

 

[VCheng]

.............
I hope you do remember how was pakistan in 60s, 70s - but when a dictator comes in, when the super powers start playing their games, our society starts changing, then another dictator comes and is supported by the US once again, our graph again goes down and we are going to the down side ever since, thanks to US, Russia for their cold war and world domination power strategies.

Who brings the dictators into power that outsiders take advantage of? Pakistan's politicians, faujis, judiciary and the elite. They are the ones you should blame, not USA. Look at Turkey as an example of how to play cards right during the cold war to reap the benefits today.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

How so?

The drone strikes a few weeks ago took out the terrorist who planned and executed the Ahmadi Mosque Bombing in Lahore killing over 140 people.

How does that equate with Taliban conducing suicide bombings and blowing up girls schools and throwing acid on women's faces?

you certainly raise a valid point here.....

however at the end of the day, the Afghan taleban are an Afghan phenomenon. So unless the NATO is ready to admit that they can't wipe the insurgency/national resistance out without changing/re-wording a few RoEs such that they'd be enabled to go to war with over 60% of the Afghan population - there is no way to win that war. It's hopeless.

you have a situation where a good % of the population supports the taleban (some even volunteer); you have a % that is not necessarily pro-taleban (ideologically speaking) but they are simply anti-NATO; you have a % that is apathetic to NATO but simply anti-Karzai (anti-Karzai sentiment is becoming increasingly visible -many Afghans including the few we have on this forum detest Karzai and those he deals with)....you have a situation where one day an informant for NATO became informant for taleban (maybe their political views changed, maybe the talebs just paid better - who knows)



the real question is - who has more ''say'' and belonging in Afghanistan.....Afghan citizens, or outsiders who came in with guns blazing before even devising an effective long-term strategy.

Hell - I ask my American friends straight up ''what is success in Afghanistan'' and I get blank stares. Most of the American public even ''wants out'' from Afghanistan - as polls show


and it's strange to talk about ''legalities'' anyways because when it comes to national security - legalities never really matter much.....i appreciate the fact that the U.S. looks after its own interests before the interests of others --but this is a situation where the U.S. actions will have foreseeable and unforseeable effects in the region and that they are really just creating more enemies for themselves than friends


the talebs meanwhile are simply uttering that the NATO has the watch; they however 'have the time' ....this is an insurgency, not a conventional war.....i think the NATO mission was always bound for failure, but it's undeniable that they made many gains post-invasion. All those gains whatever they were have now been largely reversed; the insurgency seems to have picked up and the taleban have been trying hard to show that they havent been defeated.

Afghanistan has always been a graveyard for invaders......history demonstrated this. It seems that many years later, it is the divider of civilizations as well. The American public by and large wants NATO to cut its losses and withdraw; the State Dept. concedes that it is ready to open discussions with the taleban (this has been discussed in detail on PDF)...meanwhile the Pentagon & Langley do not see eye to eye with the State Dept. and instead have their own plans up their sleeves - none of us knows fully what those plans are.

a friend of mine works for the NPR (national public radio) and he told me about heated sessions at the U.S. Senate Armed Forces Committee. Many of those meetings result in lost tempers, delegates being ejected, and fingers being pointed. Officials in the Pentagon, DoD and @ State are now at the point where in public - they are openly contradicting eachother.

it's curious that even Leon Panetta went on record claiming that U.S. will be ready for withdrawal prior to the 2014 ''target date'' for withdrawal while CENTCOM guys are fuming about the very existence of a ''target withdrawal date'' -- which has simply come as a propaganda blitz for the taleban who can simply wait things out and attack during ''fighting season'' (which typically begins in spring once the snows have melted)




my personal views.....