U.S. Receives 3D radar S-300 system's Ukraine - F-35, Patriot are not good

[blackuday]

LMAO

S-400 is below PAC-3 MSE.

how ?

It depends on the context of 'counter', as in countermeasures.

Countermeasures comes in two main types: technical and tactical.

To simplify the two, a technical countermeasure can be jamming, and the tactical countermeasure can be flying below the radar horizon -- once it is discovered.

As a manufacturer, when you build the next iteration of an existing system, naturally you would insert improvements to existing features, or add new features, or enhance durability, or increase mobility, or anything you deem necessary based upon market and customer analyses. So for this, we have S-300 to S-400 to S-500 and so on.

Before you upgrade, you have to analyze existing threats, which are two main types: Immediate and Potential.

As the manufacturer, I would make an iteration of my current product based upon potential threats. So for Russia, that potential threat would be low observable platforms.

As the buyer, you must analyze your immediate threats to see if there is a probability of they become low observable.

Low radar observability is a technical countermeasure. If there is low to no chance that your immediate threats will become 'stealth', then there is no need for an upgrade because 'stealth' cost a lot of money to evolve.

On the other hand, tactical countermeasures are often real time in development. If I am hostile to you, all I have to do is fly as much as I can afford the fuel cost. If the next iteration of the current defense system can handle my tactical countermeasure, you have to upgrade.

Immediate +++++++++++++++++++++++++ || +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Potential

Both tactical and technical countermeasures can move a Potential threat towards the Immediate. Usually, once an analysis have a Potential crosses the halfway point, the threat is categorized as Immediate.

So how do you know if a hostile air force can raise its capabilities so that its main weapons systems overwhelms your current defense? By analyzing your own defensive measures. If you are confident that your enemy cannot take the technical route, that leave the tactical route. So if you can defeat your own defense via tactics, so can -- and will -- your enemy.

That is why the USAF have programs like Red Flag and Weapons School, and units like the 507th Air Defense Aggressor Squadron, to develop both technical and tactical countermeasures to known Soviet/Russian platforms. That is why we works hard to acquire Soviet/Russian hardware to know as much as we can on how Soviet/Russian clients will use these hardware.

Your question of "if a counter to S-300's radar is developed..." is misguided, and I say that kindly.

The PAF is fully capable of taking the initiative to explore that 'if'. Your question puts the burden on someone else for your defense. Whatever you have, YOU must work to defeat all of them. If you can affect that threat scale above, so can anyone hostile to you.

Countermeasures using old Soviet technology? are you joke ?

2009: F-35 Jet Designed To Take Out The S-300 Battery

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/F-35_Jet_Designed_To_Take_Out_The_S-300_Battery_999.html

And 2018: U.S buy radar's S-300 Battery from Ukraine

You are wrong.

https://www.nasic.af.mil/About-Us/F...l-air-and-space-intelligence-center-heritage/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Ground_Intelligence_Center
https://www.onr.navy.mil/en/Science...es/Transition/Foreign-Comparative-Testing-FCT

Every branch of the US military have a foreign technology exploitation office. This is not about reverse engineering because our stuff is supposedly 'inferior'. A weapons system reflects not only the technology level but also the war fighting philosophy. Each service strives to acquire foreign technology appropriate to its area of warfare in order to better understand how a potential adversary may and will fight.

You are an American and you are insane. Look at the truth, it's the old Soviet technology, not S-300PMU2 or S-400. Ukraine has not produced the new S-300 since after 1991

Only Ukraine and Vietnam (I am Vietnamese) use this obsolete system. You can not learn anything from this obsolete technology

Oh, I forgot, the United States boasted their F-35s overtaking the S-400?

 

[Ultima Thule]

how ?



Countermeasures using old Soviet technology? are you joke ?

2009: F-35 Jet Designed To Take Out The S-300 Battery

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/F-35_Jet_Designed_To_Take_Out_The_S-300_Battery_999.html

And 2018: U.S buy radar's S-300 Battery from Ukraine



You are an American and you are insane. Look at the truth, it's the old Soviet technology, not S-300PMU2 or S-400. Ukraine has not produced the new S-300 since after 1991

Only Ukraine and Vietnam (I am Vietnamese) use this obsolete system. You can not learn anything from this obsolete technology

Oh, I forgot, the United States boasted their F-35s overtaking the S-400?

on tech term Russian no where near the west/US, Russian mosly using vintage cold war era systems @blackuday

 

[blackuday]

on tech term Russian no where near the west/US, Russian mosly using vintage cold war era systems @blackuday

really ? I see the United States likewise, the F-15, Patriot, are also cold war technologies.

Japan has a modern electronic technology, but they still use the F-4 and F-16 clone. Do not rely on individuals that underestimate any country, I understand you are a Pakistani and a fan of the United States, Russia supports India and anti the United States

Pakistan also purchased a Mi-25 from Russia, Pakistan using MiG-21 replicas from China (F7) and Type 59 copied from the T-55.

The F-22 is also associated with the backward electronic technology of the 1990s

The U.S. Air Force’s $150 million F-22 Raptor stealth fighter, which made its combat debut last week, is the most advanced operational warplane on Earth. But under the Raptor’s hood is dated computer hardware that’s creakier than your grandpappy’s cellphone from last century.

Though initially conceived as state-of-the-art technology in the early 1990s, some of the Raptor’s antiquated processors run at 25Mhz. That’s about 56 times slower than the multi-core chips in the iPhone 6.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/americas-advanced-stealth-jet-flies-on-1990s-tech

 

[Ultima Thule]

really ? I see the United States likewise, the F-15, Patriot, are also cold war technologies

upgraded with Advanced radar (AESA+avionics) Baseline Patriot is no more in US armed forces PAC-3 is inducted by US armed forces @blackuday

 

[blackuday]

upgraded with Advanced radar (AESA+avionics) Baseline Patriot is no more in US armed forces PAC-3 is inducted by US armed forces @blackuday

What is the difference between PAC-2 and PAC-2? If you rely on wikis, I would use the same for the S-300 and S-400

The S-400 uses AESA radars and OTH radar as well as Passive sensor. It has a 400km missile (40N6). PAC-3 is obsolete

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400_missile_system
https://www.rbth.com/blogs/stranger...ht-the-s-400-boosts-indian-air-defence_654595

You are anti-Russian blindly. You think the Russians simply renamed the name and did not upgrade it?

Oh, I forgot, Pakistan is running Mig 21

 

[Ultima Thule]

What is the difference between PAC-2 and PAC-2? If you rely on wikis, I would use the same for the S-300 and S-400

The S-400 uses AESA radars and OTH radar as well as Passive sensor. It has a 400km missile,
PAC-3 is obsolete

You are anti-Russian blindly

Both countries have layered defense system for every type of targets, PAC-3 is anti aircraft SAMs as well as of intercepting SRBM (Short range ballistic Missiles) at endoatmosphere and THAAD is comparable to S-400 and you have anti- US/West agenda, don't you @blackuday be neutral @blackuday

Oh, I forgot, Pakistan is running Mig 21

And you re running Su-57 @blackuday don't you @blackuday

OTH radar as well as Passive sensor.

And why you think that OTH radars is not used by USA @blackuday

You think the Russians simply renamed the name and did not upgrade it?

no i don't said that but as compare to west/USA, They relatively few upgrades for Russian Armed forces @blackuday

I understand you are a Pakistani and a fan of the United States, Russia supports India and anti the United States

Pakistan also purchased a Mi-25 from Russia, Pakistan using MiG-21 replicas from China (F7) and Type 59 copied from the T-55.

i am not fan of US, Russian/Soviets did a great thing for developing new military tech in the cold war era but now they are dead in innovation/out of the box thinking Because they have no $$$$$$$$$$ to pursue big military projects @blackuday

And you have Mi-28/KA-52, Su-57, ARMATA in your hand @blackuday be neutral @blackuday

 

[LeGenD]

how ?

1. Superior interceptor design to achieve HTK intercepts of cruise missiles, TRBM, SRBM and MRBM class targets.

Interceptor suite of S-400 is of older design; to achieve BF intercepts of the aforementioned targets.

2. Superior intercept altitude ceiling for BMDS engagements.

PAC-3 MSE BMDS altitude ceiling = 35+ KM
S-400 BMDS altitude ceiling = 27 KM

3. Superior radar system.

PAC-3 MSE radar system = AN/MPQ-65
S-400 radar system American equavilent = AN/MPQ-53

4. Higher number of interceptors per TEL.

PAC-3 MSE = 16 per TEL
S-400 = 4 - 2 per TEL (depends)

 

[blackuday]

Both countries have layered defense system for every type of targets, PAC-3 is anti aircraft SAMs as well as of intercepting SRBM (Short range ballistic Missiles) at endoatmosphere and THAAD is comparable to S-400 and you have anti- US/West agenda, don't you @blackuday be neutral @blackuday


And you re running Su-57 @blackuday don't you @blackuday


And why you think that OTH radars is not used by USA @blackuday


no i don't said that but as compare to west/USA, They relatively few upgrades for Russian Armed forces @blackuday


i am not fan of US, Russian/Soviets did a great thing for developing new military tech in the cold war era but now they are dead in innovation/out of the box thinking Because they have no $$$$$$$$$$ to pursue big military projects @blackuday

And you have Mi-28/KA-52, Su-57, ARMATA in your hand @blackuday be neutral @blackuday

The words you say are cliché

Please demonstrate the S-400 similar to the S-300 as you say? And I can say that PAC-2 and PAC-3 are no different except that the range of PAC-3 (PAC-3 is currently not used in AESA radars)

The S-400 uses AESA radars and OTH radar as well as Passive sensor. It has a 400km missile (40N6). PAC-3 is obsolete. THAAD does not use to attack the plane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400_missile_system
https://www.rbth.com/blogs/stranger...ht-the-s-400-boosts-indian-air-defence_654595

There is no US system comparable to the S-400, the Russians have the best SAM design experience in the world, this has proven in my country.

The United States blocked the S-400 to arrive in Turkey

https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2018/6/28/us-threatens-to-block-turkey-jets-over-russia-deal

Our Vietnam operates the S-300 and Su-30 along with the Kilo submarine and Pakistan ? Pakistan is a military nation, but it operates on old technology like as F-7 (MiG 21 clone export china version), Type 55 (T-55 clone) and no submarine at now (some submarine contracts from china for future)

and i said:

The F-35 actually did not pass the S-400 in Syria, it was all false advertising, if it was actually invisible to the S-400 in Syria, the US probably did not need to buy older radars.

Patriot system is not good enough, if it's good enough why the US needs to buy an old radar system to evaluate (or copy)

In my opinion, this kind of radar is used to evaluate and copy, similar to what the US copied radar technology from Germany (after WW2) or the former Soviet Union (find the billion dollar spy Tolkachev you will understand)

1. Superior interceptor design to achieve HTK intercepts of cruise missiles, TRBM, SRBM and MRBM class targets.

Interceptor suite of S-400 is of older design; to achieve BF intercepts of the aforementioned targets.

2. Superior intercept altitude ceiling for BMDS engagements.

PAC-3 MSE BMDS altitude ceiling = 35+ KM
S-400 BMDS altitude ceiling = 27 KM

3. Superior radar system.

PAC-3 MSE radar system = AN/MPQ-65
S-400 radar system American equavilent = AN/MPQ-53

4. Higher number of interceptors per TEL.

PAC-3 MSE = 16 per TEL
S-400 = 4 - 2 per TEL (depends)

Where is all the evidence ? You just say and do not have any reliable sources

If the PAC-3 was good, the United States did not have to buy the old S-300 radar (Soviet tech)

The S-300 from the Soviet era is similar to the S-400 at now and the Americans simply bought the old S-300 from Ukraine, which would defeat Russia, It's a joke for the knowledge of American patriots

Can any US Patriots give me any information on the similarity of the S-300 and S-400 or S-400 still using the 36D6M1-1 radar? anyone ? 36D6M1-1 is an outdated radar system, only used by Vietnam and Ukraine

 

[Oldman1]

Where is all the evidence ? You just say and do not have any reliable sources

If the PAC-3 was good, the United States did not have to buy the old S-300 radar (Soviet tech)

The S-300 from the Soviet era is similar to the S-400 at now and the Americans simply bought the old S-300 from Ukraine, which would defeat Russia, It's a joke for the knowledge of American patriots

Can any US Patriots give me any information on the similarity of the S-300 and S-400 or S-400 still using the 36D6M1-1 radar? anyone ? 36D6M1-1 is an outdated radar system, only used by Vietnam and Ukraine

The U.S bought them because they want to find its strengths and weaknesses. No different than buying the SU-27 to study it. That don't mean they reversed engineer it. Do you see any Americanized version of the SU-27s? Many countries still use the S-300. Why else would Russia try to block the sale of the system to the U.S.? Unless they are concerned it still has some value.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Our Vietnam operates the S-300 and Su-30 along with the Kilo submarine and Pakistan ? Pakistan is a military nation, but it operates on old technology like as F-7 (MiG 21 clone export china version), Type 55 (T-55 clone) and no submarine at now (some submarine contracts from china for future)

and i said:

We have F-16 one of the most successful jet, JF-17 85% has capability of F-16 Block-40/42 and up coming Block-3 will be better of F-16 block-52 in the term of electronics (Radar+Avionics) we have better subs than your 80's era vintage Kilo (Augsta-90B) and you don't have that clone, am i right @blackuday

he words you say are cliché

Please demonstrate the S-400 similar to the S-300 as you say? And I can say that PAC-2 and PAC-3 are no different except that the range of PAC-3 (PAC-3 is currently not used in AESA radars)

The S-400 uses AESA radars and OTH radar as well as Passive sensor. It has a 400km missile (40N6). PAC-3 is obsolete. THAAD does not use to attack the plane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400_missile_system
https://www.rbth.com/blogs/stranger...ht-the-s-400-boosts-indian-air-defence_654595

There is no US system comparable to the S-400, the Russians have the best SAM design experience in the world, this has proven in my country.

THAAD and S-400 are comparable system both are to intercept IRBM (Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles) and PAC-3 is part of network that could be guided by AESA if needed, and why you consider USA is not Using OTH radars and by they way as for your information OTH radars are for Early Warning (Early detection) of the targets not able to guide interceptors to targets @blackuday here is the some US OTH RADARS @blackuday

COBRA MIST

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_Mist

COBRA DANE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_Dane

PAVE PAWS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAVE_...allistic_Missile_Detection_and_Warning_System​

 

[blackuday]

The U.S bought them because they want to find its strengths and weaknesses. No different than buying the SU-27 to study it. That don't mean they reversed engineer it. Do you see any Americanized version of the SU-27s? Many countries still use the S-300. Why else would Russia try to block the sale of the system to the U.S.? Unless they are concerned it still has some value.

The S-300 is an old system and it's in Ukraine, very old fashioned, you can not learn anything from it. Because the SU-27 is a hard-to-copy aerodynamic, the US is based on invisibility, the Su-27 is not invisible, look at the F-15, it is a reference from the MiG-25. Asked for it through the MiG-25 in Japan in 1976)

F-35 if it is confident in its own stealth, why buy this? Countermeasures using old Soviet technology? are you joke ?

2009: F-35 Jet Designed To Take Out The S-300 Battery

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/F-35_Jet_Designed_To_Take_Out_The_S-300_Battery_999.html

We have F-16 one of the most successful jet, JF-17 85% has capability of F-16 Block-40/42 and up coming Block-3 will be better of F-16 block-52 in the term of electronics (Radar+Avionics) we have better subs than your 80's era vintage Kilo (Augsta-90B) and you don't have that clone, am i right @blackuday

THAAD and S-400 are comparable system both are to intercept IRBM (Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles) and PAC-3 is part of network that could be guided by AESA if needed, and why you consider USA is not Using OTH radars and by they way as for your information OTH radars are for Early Warning (Early detection) of the targets not able to guide interceptors to targets @blackuday here is the some US OTH RADARS @blackuday

COBRA MIST
View attachment 497274 View attachment 497275
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_Mist

COBRA DANE
View attachment 497276
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_Dane

PAVE PAWS
View attachment 497278
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAVE_...allistic_Missile_Detection_and_Warning_System​

F-16 radar is weak, short range
JF-17 Chinese radar
Both are poorly loaded
The JF-17 is a copy from the MiG-33 Project
The F-16 is a copy of the Ye-8 / MiG-21

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_Ye-8
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-33#Project_33

OTH Radar and AESA of THAAD and PAC-3 please tell me their name? And what evidence can PAC-3 and THAAD attack the OTH target?

The new S-400 also has OTH attack and capability AESA radar addon

40N6 Long-Range Missile
The "big" missile [designation otherwise unknown as of 1999] is intended to have a range of up to 400 km and will be able to engage over-the-horizon [OTH] targets using a new seeker head developed by Almaz Central Design Bureau. This seeker can operate in both a semiactive and active mode, with the seeker switched to a search mode on ground command and homing on targets independently. Targets for this missile include airborne early warning and control aircraft as well as jammers.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/s-400-missiles.htm

91N6E RADAR

The 91N6E "Big Bird" AESA radar can locate and track stealth aircraft at standoff (100km+) distances, while it can detect high altitude targets like ballistic missiles at distances of up to 600km.

The long range of the S-400’s powerful AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar fills these gaps. The S-400 missile system can even take out aircraft with low-observable technology. “For the S-400 there is no such thing as ‘stealth’ aircraft; the system will see it and will shoot it down,” an S-400 battery commander was quoted as saying in the Russian media.

Each S-400 system consists of six SAMs. The command center of the air defense missile systems will process the data from the radar complex, SAM, and other AAMS and ZRPK (S-300, "Thor", "shell-C"), as well as higher command centers. In short, it fully controls the process of the attack with modern air defense / missile defense system in a given area. Radar system (RFCs) for the S-400 is 91N6E, and its range is 600 km.

See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/05-03-2013/123967-s_400_meads-0/
https://www.rbth.com/blogs/stranger...ht-the-s-400-boosts-indian-air-defence_654595
https://www.popsci.com/china-and-russia-sign-biggest-arms-deal-decade-buy-worlds-best-missile#page-5

The S-400 has more optional systems, weapons and radar, and electronic sensors. Compared to THAAD and PAC-3

Optional elements of the S-400 (98ZH6E) include the 15I6ME-98ZH6E, with coverage of 30, 60 and 90 km beyond the 30K6E coverage. The 96L6E has a 300-kilometre (190 mi) detection range. The 40B6M is housing for the 92N6E or 96L6E radar. The Protivnik-GE is an anti-stealth UHF radar with a 400-kilometre (250 mi) range. The Moscow-1 passive sensor is times more effective than the Protivnik, with a 400-kilometre (250 mi) range Orion for a target-designation on-the-air defence system, and the Avtobaza-M and Orion+ Avtobaza adds high-precision detection. The 1RL220BEversions were reportedly were used for jamming. The 400-kilometre (250 mi)-range S-200D Dubna (SA-5c) missiles and S-300 P-family radar systems can be used without additional command-and-control centres. S-300 (SA-20A, SA-20B) missiles may also be guided.A-50 and A-50U aircraft provide early warning and command-and-control target designation.

 

[Ultima Thule]

The S-300 is an old system and it's in Ukraine, very old fashioned, you can not learn anything from it. Because the SU-27 is a hard-to-copy aerodynamic, the US is based on invisibility, the Su-27 is not invisible, look at the F-15, it is a reference from the MiG-25. Asked for it through the MiG-25 in Japan in 1976)

F-35 if it is confident in its own stealth, why buy this? Countermeasures using old Soviet technology? are you joke ?

2009: F-35 Jet Designed To Take Out The S-300 Battery

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/F-35_Jet_Designed_To_Take_Out_The_S-300_Battery_999.html



F-16 radar is weak, short range
JF-17 Chinese radar
Both are poorly loaded
The JF-17 is a copy from the MiG-33 Project
The F-16 is a copy of the Ye-8 / MiG-21

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_Ye-8
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-33#Project_33

OTH Radar and AESA of THAAD and PAC-3 please tell me their name?

What a joke F-16 is copy of Mig-21/Y-8 @blackuday
F-16 Radar range is similar to Su-30 @blackuday
F-16 weapons payloads are quite similar to Su-30 6000 to 8000 Kg @blackuday
and JF-17 is light weight jet @blackuday
And you have a Vietnamese radar in your Su-30 @blackuday

 

[blackuday]

What a joke F-16 is copy of Mig-21Y-8 @blackuday
F-16 Radar range is similar to Su-30 @blackuday
F-16 weapons payloads are quite similar to Su-30 6000 to 8000 Kg @blackuday
and JF-17 is light weight jet @blackuday
And you have a Vietnamese radar in your Su-30 @blackuday

you are a child

Prior to copying MiG-21 / Ye-8, the United States had no similar aircraft Ye-8

The new version radar of F-16

Not many may be aware that F-16v Block 70/72 Super Viper has been fitted with a state of the art AESA fire control radar APG-83. It has a detection range of 120 km and engagement range of 84 km
https://fighterjetsworld.com/2018/0...edge-over-other-4th-generation-fighters-jets/

The old radar of Su-30

The aircraft is equipped with an upgraded N001VEP Pulse-Doppler fire-control radar developed by Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design (NIIP). With a new processor, the radar is able to track 10 targets and engage 4 of them (or 2 for ground targets) simultaneously. The radar has a detecting range of 150 km against fighters-sized targets or 400 km against bomber-sized target. It has also been optimised in order to fire the Vympel R-77 (AA-12 ‘Adder’) active radar-homing medium-range air-to-air missile.
http://sinodefence.com/sukhoi-su-30mkk/

The smaller size of the F-16, the radar is smaller than the Su-30 radar, you can not have a 400km range with small radar, it does not have enough electronic circuits to increase the power.

 

[Ultima Thule]

OTH Radar and AESA of THAAD and PAC-3 please tell me their name? And what evidence can PAC-3 and THAAD attack the OTH target?

you are a child

Prior to copying MiG-21 / Ye-8, the United States had no similar aircraft Ye-8

The new version radar of F-16

Not many may be aware that F-16v Block 70/72 Super Viper has been fitted with a state of the art AESA fire control radar APG-83. It has a detection range of 120 km and engagement range of 84 km
https://fighterjetsworld.com/2018/0...edge-over-other-4th-generation-fighters-jets/

The old radar of Su-30

The aircraft is equipped with an upgraded N001VEP Pulse-Doppler fire-control radar developed by Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design (NIIP). With a new processor, the radar is able to track 10 targets and engage 4 of them (or 2 for ground targets) simultaneously. The radar has a detecting range of 150 km against fighters-sized targets or 400 km against bomber-sized target. It has also been optimised in order to fire the Vympel R-77 (AA-12 ‘Adder’) active radar-homing medium-range air-to-air missile.
http://sinodefence.com/sukhoi-su-30mkk/

The smaller size of the F-16, the radar is smaller than the Su-30 radar, you can not have a 400km range with small radar, it does not have enough electronic circuits to increase the power.

and you're paranoid with false assumptions/theories, APG-68 in the block-52 has a range of more than 300 km, and post the links that saying F-16 detection range with only 120 km with AESA don't fool yourself @blackuday give me reference from respected sites like Jane's. aviation weekly , flight global etc etc, don't post the links that suits your narratives @blackuday

wikipedia is unreliable source in other article in Wikipedia said that MIG-25 was the copy of A-5 Vigilante

The new version radar of F-16

Not many may be aware that F-16v Block 70/72 Super Viper has been fitted with a state of the art AESA fire control radar APG-83. It has a detection range of 120 km and engagement range of 84 km
https://fighterjetsworld.com/2018/0...edge-over-other-4th-generation-fighters-jets/

here is the trange of Block 52 @blackuday
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/APG-68

 

[Ultima Thule]

Prior to copying MiG-21 / Ye-8, the United States had no similar aircraft Ye-8

If Ye-8 was that super jet then why Soviet/Russian would mass produce it @blackuday