Two ex PLAN navy frigate joining in 2018 to Bangladesh Navy.

[Imran Khan]

Please tell me. How exactly does promoting human development and economic development over military expenditure help India and hurt Bangladesh? Simply put Bangladesh is a young nation. It has massive potential. It is SO underdeveloped. And the inherent capabilities of Bangladeshis are tremendous if properly cultivated. This means EDUCATION! education, healthcare, infrastructure development should take precedence over military procurement in my opinion. That being said, I think some baseline capability should always be present with BAF armed forces of course. Again in terms of the BAF, I would advocate for that reported purchase of that Chinese package. I think that is completely reasonable given the cost as well as the capabilities being acquired and is precisely the type of action i hope for. Purchasing the two old Mings were brilliant i thought. It takes YEARS to build up a culture for operating submarines. InshAllah after BN is more familiar with the basics, and the economy have improved even more, perhaps 2 new builds or even more will be bought. Overall, although I dont like Hasina's friendliness towards India, or constant villification of Pakistan or living in the past, I think her government has done a great job in regards to Bangladeshi military procurement.

All I'm saying is this. Bangladesh has bigger fish to fry then worry about developing an indigenous military production capability. It is several years, if not a generation or two away from that even being a concern in the face of other more immediate concerns.

sir i respect your views but please remove those fighter jets from avatar and use some humanist avatar

 

[BDforever]

sir i respect your views but please remove those fighter jets from avatar and use some humanist avatar

 

[Avicenna]

sir i respect your views but please remove those fighter jets from avatar and use some humanist avatar

Humanist, i definitely am but, perhaps I should replace it with this. Everything I have said in the above posts would IMO result in better long term benefits and lead to a stronger and more prosperous Bangladesh rather than knee jerk, "lets buy this and lets buy that...India this and India that..." short term goals and action.

 

[TopCat]

Humanist, i definitely am but, perhaps I should replace it with this. Everything I have said in the above posts would IMO result in better long term benefits and lead to a stronger and more prosperous Bangladesh rather than knee jerk, "lets buy this and lets buy that...India this and India that..." short term goals and action.
View attachment 407074

With your attitude people would had still living in stone ages and never aspired for moon landing.
Not everybody is the mover of front line. Society need people like you also.

 

[Nike]

That true @madokafc ? Things were that hopeless economically under Suharto?



Ouch. Brazen honesty wont get you far in this subforum buddy. Appreciate the effort though.

The basic had been there since some local companies got license to built American car even during Dutch era, followed by Austrian Steyr punch production during Soekarno era and liberalization of automotive industry during Soeharto

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

its not forgotten how cargo ships full of badly-needed food for famine-stricken Bangladeshis were diverted by the Americans in 1974, just because Bangladesh sold jute goods to Cuba.... the point is, its not just economic considerations that guide geopolitics.... control of one state over another is a primary motivation..... and for the Superpower, control over regions and largely, the world, is the motive... and that control only comes with half the entire world's defence budget being spent by one nation!!

building up of rationale for 'subjugated countries' for feeding a population came up just because 99% of the resources of this world had been eaten up by 1%.... unequal distribution of wealth has made such struggle part of the system.... a system controlled by the Superpower.... so, in such a scenario, lectures regarding balance on defence spending is a hypocrisy indeed....

Bangladesh is on a different trajectory than what it was when it depended on American aid ships.... its an emerging power in the Indian Ocean with powerful bonds building up all over, especially in the Muslim World.... under such circumstances, military spending is something that should find a more realistic trajectory than the current tame crawling speed.....

 

[Avicenna]

its not forgotten how cargo ships full of badly-needed food for famine-stricken Bangladeshis were diverted by the Americans in 1974, just because Bangladesh sold jute goods to Cuba.... the point is, its not just economic considerations that guide geopolitics.... control of one state over another is a primary motivation..... and for the Superpower, control over regions and largely, the world, is the motive... and that control only comes with half the entire world's defence budget being spent by one nation!!

building up of rationale for 'subjugated countries' for feeding a population came up just because 99% of the resources of this world had been eaten up by 1%.... unequal distribution of wealth has made such struggle part of the system.... a system controlled by the Superpower.... so, in such a scenario, lectures regarding balance on defence spending is a hypocrisy indeed....

Bangladesh is on a different trajectory than what it was when it depended on American aid ships.... its an emerging power in the Indian Ocean with powerful bonds building up all over, especially in the Muslim World.... under such circumstances, military spending is something that should find a more realistic trajectory than the current tame crawling speed.....

Your first paragraph I agree with. But you advocate for increased military spending to circumvent the world order that is based on the corrupt interests of the haves of the world. Fine I get that. But what's your endpoint? Do you think Bangladesh an ever be self sufficient in her defense needs? Do you realize that involves the increased education spending that I advocate for now anyways. Things need to be built up from the ground up.

Case in point on an unrelated matter. Look at Kamra aviation city and the efforts of the Pakistanis to develop some semblance of indiginization for the PAF. How successessful it will be is anybody's guess but I hope it is. Their circumstances are different to Bangladesh's of course. But they are not well liked by anyone in the global community expect for the Chinese, Turkey and some lip service by some Arab states. There is a dire need for them as they can't rely on the US anymore and they have an active adversary to the East. Consider Bangladesh fortunate that this isn't the case for her.

Anyways whatever I'm saying is what I think would be good for the country. But obviously I'm just a keyboard warrior in Texas.

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

Look at Kamra aviation city and the efforts of the Pakistanis to develop some semblance of indiginization for the PAF. How successessful it will be is anybody's guess but I hope it is. .

hmm.... when Bangladesh decided to split off from Pakistan, it had a goal to justify the split.... and for that reason alone, Bangladesh needs to develop its independent defence production capabilities.... Pakistan is far ahead of Bangladesh right now in that field..... and I think Bangladesh deserves to get much closer to Pakistan if that split justification of four decades back need to be held high....

But they are not well liked by anyone in the global community expect for the Chinese, Turkey and some lip service by some Arab states. There is a dire need for them as they can't rely on the US anymore and they have an active adversary to the East.

since the betrayal of the US against Pakistan even after the Musharraf govt's post 9/11 bootlicking, Pakistan hardly had any options left to find some strategic sources for their warfighting capabilities to balance out India.... and also, since the embracing of Barack Obama by Modi, Pakistan found a stronger motive to pursue REAL national interests..... being liked or disliked by other US bootlickers is probably not a matter of concern for Pakistan anymore....

for Bangladesh as well, when the US tried to force Bangladesh to abandon the Padma Bridge project, Bangladesh looked for non-US alternatives.... and that made Bangladesh stronger in the end.... such decisions are needed in the field of defence as well....

 

[Avicenna]

hmm.... when Bangladesh decided to split off from Pakistan, it had a goal to justify the split.... and for that reason alone, Bangladesh needs to develop its independent defence production capabilities.... Pakistan is far ahead of Bangladesh right now in that field..... and I think Bangladesh deserves to get much closer to Pakistan if that split justification of four decades back need to be held high....



since the betrayal of the US against Pakistan even after the Musharraf govt's post 9/11 bootlicking, Pakistan hardly had any options left to find some strategic sources for their warfighting capabilities to balance out India.... and also, since the embracing of Barack Obama by Modi, Pakistan found a stronger motive to pursue REAL national interests..... being liked or disliked by other US bootlickers is probably not a matter of concern for Pakistan anymore....

for Bangladesh as well, when the US tried to force Bangladesh to abandon the Padma Bridge project, Bangladesh looked for non-US alternatives.... and that made Bangladesh stronger in the end.... such decisions are needed in the field of defence as well....

Your first paragraph is absurd.

What are you trying to say? The Bangladesh needs a strong military to justify the split? How does that make any sense?

 

[Bilal9]

Simply put Bangladesh is a young nation. It has massive potential. It is SO underdeveloped. And the inherent capabilities of Bangladeshis are tremendous if properly cultivated. This means EDUCATION! education, healthcare, infrastructure development should take precedence over military procurement in my opinion. That being said, I think some baseline capability should always be present with BAF armed forces of course.

Bangladesh' HDI and education development goals (including literacy) is higher than neighbors such as India, with _half_ the budget per capita that India spends. We have more girls than boys in school, which is unheard of in South Asia (and even some Muslim countries in Asia), which is heavily backward in this regard. We can have development in education _and_ military procurement. I don't see the point why the two factors have any relationship and have to be mutually exclusive.....as our economy grows we have to abandon these backward self-limiting thoughts...... we are so behind in every factor from everyone else, we don't have the luxury of time to dodder about.....

Purchasing the two old Mings were brilliant i thought. It takes YEARS to build up a culture for operating submarines. InshAllah after BN is more familiar with the basics, and the economy have improved even more, perhaps 2 new builds or even more will be bought.

While BN trains and builds its submariners, we can start building the subs with ToT. Maybe not nuclear subs to start with, but something like Kilo class or U209 types. The two factors (training and sub building) don't have any causal relationship. They can develop in parallel, why wait? Only Bangladesh' enemies would support a philosophy of waiting so they can dominate us.

Mings are just a training platform and not offensive platform. India put decommissioned Mings in a roadside museum in Chennai some ten years ago.

All I'm saying is this. Bangladesh has bigger fish to fry then worry about developing an indigenous military production capability. It is several years, if not a generation or two away from that even being a concern in the face of other more immediate concerns.

I'd disagree. With so much lacking in this field, we should indigenize _any_ sort of defense production to become self-reliant. If we have the money to invest, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain. How shameful is it, to go to a foreign source, asking to buy simple arms like AK-47's or Sniper rifles or armoured cars like COBRAs? True - we have local production on some of these items but with how many factories we have, we should be making most of these items ourselves.

Your views would not jive with that of most people in Bangladesh I'm afraid.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

yea. not a chance the 052D is only 500 million, and not a chance the 055 is 750 million, china has lower costs than the US but not THAT much lower especially considering the cutting edge tech used in these ships.

you wanna make it costly for a enemy? subs, missile, basically anti-access weapons, fight the enemies weakness, whereas the DDG's would be facing their strengths.

According to POP3, a single Type 055 costs less than 1 billion USD.

 

[Bilal9]

Humanist, i definitely am but, perhaps I should replace it with this. Everything I have said in the above posts would IMO result in better long term benefits and lead to a stronger and more prosperous Bangladesh rather than knee jerk, "lets buy this and lets buy that...India this and India that..." short term goals and action.
View attachment 407074

Everything does not pan out like SMART goals in an office.

Sometimes the best changes are disruptive.....

 

[sbmc27]

Please tell me. How exactly does promoting human development and economic development over military expenditure help India and hurt Bangladesh? Simply put Bangladesh is a young nation. It has massive potential. It is SO underdeveloped. And the inherent capabilities of Bangladeshis are tremendous if properly cultivated. This means EDUCATION! education, healthcare, infrastructure development should take precedence over military procurement in my opinion. That being said, I think some baseline capability should always be present with BAF armed forces of course. Again in terms of the BAF, I would advocate for that reported purchase of that Chinese package. I think that is completely reasonable given the cost as well as the capabilities being acquired and is precisely the type of action i hope for. Purchasing the two old Mings were brilliant i thought. It takes YEARS to build up a culture for operating submarines. InshAllah after BN is more familiar with the basics, and the economy have improved even more, perhaps 2 new builds or even more will be bought. Overall, although I dont like Hasina's friendliness towards India, or constant villification of Pakistan or living in the past, I think her government has done a great job in regards to Bangladeshi military procurement.

All I'm saying is this. Bangladesh has bigger fish to fry then worry about developing an indigenous military production capability. It is several years, if not a generation or two away from that even being a concern in the face of other more immediate concerns.

Agreed

Na Bilal bhai.
It shouldn't be the strategy that you spend less but getting results more.
For building a nation you must build a stronger education and health sector.
For your kind information, the primary and secondary education and health sector get less budgetary allocation in terms of percentages point (although total expenditure increases) in the upcoming fiscal year.
And last but not least, good governance.
Bangladesh direly in need of good governance.
In absence of good governance every success of hard working people of bd is going in veil.

Bangladesh' HDI and education development goals (including literacy) is higher than neighbors such as India, with _half_ the budget per capita that India spends. We have more girls than boys in school, which is unheard of in South Asia (and even some Muslim countries in Asia), which is heavily backward in this regard. We can have development in education _and_ military procurement. I don't see the point why the two factors have any relationship and have to be mutually exclusive.....as our economy grows we have to abandon these backward self-limiting thoughts...... we are so behind in every factor from everyone else, we don't have the luxury of time to dodder about.....



While BN trains and builds its submariners, we can start building the subs with ToT. Maybe not nuclear subs to start with, but something like Kilo class or U209 types. The two factors (training and sub building) don't have any causal relationship. They can develop in parallel, why wait? Only Bangladesh' enemies would support a philosophy of waiting so they can dominate us.

Mings are just a training platform and not offensive platform. India put decommissioned Mings in a roadside museum in Chennai some ten years ago.



I'd disagree. With so much lacking in this field, we should indigenize _any_ sort of defense production to become self-reliant. If we have the money to invest, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain. How shameful is it, to go to a foreign source, asking to buy simple arms like AK-47's or Sniper rifles or armoured cars like COBRAs? True - we have local production on some of these items but with how many factories we have, we should be making most of these items ourselves.

Your views would not jive with that of most people in Bangladesh I'm afraid.

 

[Bilal9]

Agreed

Na Bilal bhai.
It shouldn't be the strategy that you spend less but getting results more.
For building a nation you must build a stronger education and health sector.
For your kind information, the primary and secondary education and health sector get less budgetary allocation in terms of percentages point (although total expenditure increases) in the upcoming fiscal year.
And last but not least, good governance.
Bangladesh direly in need of good governance.
In absence of good governance every success of hard working people of bd is going in veil.

We can have both good education/health and military products indigenization. One doesn't have to suffer for the other because we have huge central bank surplus and growing in trade everyday.

If you oppose becoming self-reliant in arms, then you are simply siding with the enemy and supporting Bangladesh becoming a subservient state. This is rather simple to see.

 

[sbmc27]

Partially agreed.
Those are not mutually exclusive.
But what will be the priority?
There are so many things to do.
Building infrastructure, electricity generation, roads, railway, deep see port, and many more.
All are investments driven.
So, what will be priority for resources allocation?

We can have both good education/health and military products indigenization. One doesn't have to suffer for the other because we have huge central bank surplus and growing in trade everyday.

If you oppose becoming self-reliant in arms, then you are simply siding with the enemy and supporting Bangladesh becoming a subservient state. This is rather simple to see.