Twin tail L-15 concept unveiled

[S10]

I've seen no indication of either project being selected. As of now, as far as I know, they are still in competition for the PLAAF order. Some view the L-15 as a more advanced and more mature design (as opposed to the J-7 based JL-9), but the JL-9 offers better specifications. Personally, I think the versatility and much more advanced airframe of the L-15 offers it much higher potential.

The L-15 is seeking to use domestically produced Al-222K-25F engines. Again, they are trainers; high performance domestic engines are not urgently needed. China can make the switch to the WS-11 if they are still unsatisfied.

Another option is to induct some of both, of course, but that wholly depends on the range of mission types that the PLAAF and PLANAF are focusing on.

You do know that the entire L-15 is not designed by Hongdu, but by Yak right? It would be so much easier if engine was the only problem. The entire project is basically Hongdu getting the parts from Yak and re-labelling it their own. Beside it being a logistical nightmare, it is also too expensive. These problems are widely discussed on CD, so I don't know how you maintain L-15 will be picked. It IS already out of the picture.

Basically:
- Foreign design
- Foreign parts
- Structural problem
- Cost
- Require new logistical system

Did I mention the engine only has 600 hours of service life? Hah, good luck trying to sell that crap anywhere.

 

[Akasa]

You do know that the entire L-15 is not designed by Hongdu, but by Yak right? It would be so much easier if engine was the only problem. The entire project is basically Hongdu getting the parts from Yak and re-labelling it their own. Beside it being a logistical nightmare, it is also too expensive. These problems are widely discussed on CD, so I don't know how you maintain L-15 will be picked. It IS already out of the picture.

Basically:
- Foreign design
- Foreign parts
- Structural problem
- Cost
- Require new logistical system

Did I mention the engine only has 600 hours of service life? Hah, good luck trying to sell that crap anywhere.

The L-15 development was "supposedly aided" by Yakolev, but until we see clear sources or announcement, that is not going to cut it. As far as we know, it is using a Russian engine. The FBW, HOTAS, avionics, and cockpit are developed by China. That leaves the engine being Russian, but as I mentioned, the Al-222K-25K are also being produced in China, which reduces its cost. I don't know where you got the 600 hour service life claim, but if that hypothetically doesn't work out, a WS-11 could be easily brought in. The design is standard of most high-end trainers; the M-346, AT-2000, T-50, all use this design. You can't say it's "foreign" or whatnot because it's a convention.

An upgrade was revealed at the 2010 Zhuhai Airshow.

The JL-9 is based off the J-7, and according to various sources, it is generally believed that the L-15 possesses a technological edge over the 1970s-style JL-9 crap (the JL-9's design is already 20 years outdated when it was first unveiled).

Now, the main reason the PLAAF is deciding is because of cost. The L-15 cost a lot more than the JL-9, albeit its increased capabilities.

 

[S10]

The L-15 development was "supposedly aided" by Yakolev, but until we see clear sources or announcement, that is not going to cut it. As far as we know, it is using a Russian engine. The FBW, HOTAS, avionics, and cockpit are developed by China. That leaves the engine being Russian, but as I mentioned, the Al-222K-25K are also being produced in China, which reduces its cost. I don't know where you got the 600 hour service life claim, but if that hypothetically doesn't work out, a WS-11 could be easily brought in. The design is standard of most high-end trainers; the M-346, AT-2000, T-50, all use this design. You can't say it's "foreign" or whatnot because it's a convention.

An upgrade was revealed at the 2010 Zhuhai Airshow.

The JL-9 is based off the J-7, and according to various sources, it is generally believed that the L-15 possesses a technological edge over the 1970s-style JL-9 crap (the JL-9's design is already 20 years outdated when it was first unveiled).

Now, the main reason the PLAAF is deciding is because of cost. The L-15 cost a lot more than the JL-9, albeit its increased capabilities.

LOL! Quit inventing things that doesn't exist. The entire design is done by Yak and most components are from Yak. Are you so naive to believe Hongdu will come out and say they've borrowed the entire thing from the Ukranians? Use your head once in a while instead of daydreaming about some fantasy airforce.

Hell, even Hongdu half admitted this in their company news.

新华网南昌电 记者从江西省国防科工办获悉，由洪都航空工业集团公司研发的国产碳纤维复合材料近日实现首次装机件试制，即将装机猎鹰06架高教机，这将大大节约猎鹰复合材料的制造成本。

　　目前，国产碳纤维复合材料已推广至机头罩、方向舵等数个大部件，这些也是即将在猎鹰 06架上实现装机的部件。
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Read up very carefully on these two threads. The problems are widely known. Unfortunately, some people still holds some fantasy about this garbage. On the other hand, JL-9 is exactly what PLAAF is looking for. The military by its very nature is a conservative organization, and always values reliability over the rest.

 

[Akasa]

LOL! Quit inventing things that doesn't exist. The entire design is done by Yak and most components are from Yak. Are you so naive to believe Hongdu will come out and say they've borrowed the entire thing from the Ukranians? Use your head once in a while instead of daydreaming about some fantasy airforce.

Hell, even Hongdu half admitted this in their company news.

新华网南昌电 记者从江西省国防科工办获悉，由洪都航空工业集团公司研发的国产碳纤维复合材料近日实现首次装机件试制，即将装机猎鹰06架高教机，这将大大节约猎鹰复合材料的制造成本。

　　目前，国产碳纤维复合材料已推广至机头罩、方向舵等数个大部件，这些也是即将在猎鹰 06架上实现装机的部件。
L-15´¦¾³²»Ã| Ó¥»÷³¤¿Õ - ·ÉÑï¾üÊ ÐñÈÕ³ö¶«·½£¬¾«²ÊÔÚ·ÉÑï - powered by phpwind.net
¹ØÓں鶼¹ØÓÚL15һЩÈÃÎÒ²»Í²»¿ìµÄ»°[Page:1] - ¿Õ¾ü°æ - ³¬¼¶´ó±¾Óª¾üÊÂÂÛ̳ - ×î¾ßÓ°ÏìÁ¦¾üÊÂÂÛ̳ Super Military Forum Of China

Read up very carefully on these two threads. The problems are widely known. Unfortunately, some people still holds some fantasy about this garbage. On the other hand, JL-9 is exactly what PLAAF is looking for. The military by its very nature is a conservative organization, and always values reliability over the rest.

I advise you to stop making assumptions based on appearance alone. Nowhere did I read that Yakolev completed the design or even took part in it. It's been rumored that Yakolev aided in the development. Components? Can you even name the designations of them? If not, then stop with your ill-supported claims and get a grip on reality.

You are a big advocate of sources, right? Then show me a decent source that says that the design or most of the "components" were developed by Yakolev. Seriously, wake up and smell the coffee. We don't live in a world where what you believe is what becomes reality.

Even the links you provided label the L-15 Falcon as "self developed". Ironic, isn't it?

Speaking of conservative, choosing a MiG-21-based trainer with lower performance (and thus learning) results just to save a few bucks is not good "conservation" of resources and money. It's better to have 10 well trained students rather than 20 failing ones.

We have not seen the JL-9 or L-15 enter batch production. Nowhere in any of your sources did it say that the L-15 was defeated by the JL-9. We have not seen any fresh news regarding the bid, so, until we do, we can only safely assume that the evaluation process is still going on.

A dead project does not make new variants:
PICTURE: Zhuhai10 - AVIC launches L-15 version with afterburner

 

[S10]

I advise you to stop making assumptions based on appearance alone. Nowhere did I read that Yakolev completed the design or even took part in it. It's been rumored that Yakolev aided in the development. Components? Can you even name the designations of them? If not, then stop with your ill-supported claims and get a grip on reality.

On the contrary, it is you that is detached from reality. Your failure to properly read the threads I posted is an indication of such. Did Hongdu ever admitted in its publications that Russian engines are used? No, but people within the aviation circle found out and released it to public. Feel free to contact Hongdu and ask though, but I suspect they'll laugh at you.

Untitled Document

You are a big advocate of sources, right? Then show me a decent source that says that the design or most of the "components" were developed by Yakolev. Seriously, wake up and smell the coffee. We don't live in a world where what you believe is what becomes reality.

L-15's problems have been widely discussed by lizyu on 航空知识 magazine, and several other poster such as 东沟 had previously expressed pessimism regarding the project. You can continue to put your head in the sand and pretend L-15 is somehow all Chinese, but the rest of us knows better.

Even the links you provided label the L-15 Falcon as "self developed". Ironic, isn't it?

Do you have reading comprenhension problems? "Self developed" L-15 is as big as a joke as your inability to properly read the discussion. The text stated only parts are Chinese made.

Speaking of conservative, choosing a MiG-21-based trainer with lower performance (and thus learning) results just to save a few bucks is not good "conservation" of resources and money. It's better to have 10 well trained students rather than 20 failing ones.

LOL! L-15 = well trained students while JL-9 = failed one. You just went full retard. United States airforce, the most capable in the world, still uses T-38 as advanced jet trainer, a design more than 45 years old. Even the T-45 which was introduced later was based on the Hawk, another design approaching 40 years. Unless you meant to say Americans pilots are failures, do keep the stupidity to the minimum.

We have not seen the JL-9 or L-15 enter batch production. Nowhere in any of your sources did it say that the L-15 was defeated by the JL-9. We have not seen any fresh news regarding the bid, so, until we do, we can only safely assume that the evaluation process is still going on.

A dead project does not make new variants:
PICTURE: Zhuhai10 - AVIC launches L-15 version with afterburner

The Super-7 project planned a variant eventhough it was dead.